All Time IQ Tier List

[SpreeS]

The best IQ guys are these guys which have no business to be in NBA due lack of body physicality for NBA standards. They are playing exclusively because of their IQ on some degree.

Joe Ingles for example

[Heej]

The best IQ guys are these guys which have no business to be in NBA due lack of body physicality for NBA standards. They are playing exclusively because of their IQ on some degree.

Joe Ingles for example

Many of the all time greats and GOAT contenders are literally those guys with good NBA bodies

[EmpireFalls]

I can’t think of a single reason why you’d leave Chris Paul out of the S tier. Whatever tier is the highest he belongs in. Especially if you want to put LeBron and Jokic in a tier above him, that strikes me as laughable.

[rk2023]

I can’t think of a single reason why you’d leave Chris Paul out of the S tier. Whatever tier is the highest he belongs in. Especially if you want to put LeBron and Jokic in a tier above him, that strikes me as laughable.

Watching how they play in the playoffs respectively, it makes perfect sense.

[Samurai]

Worth a mention of Jerry Lucas, if only for his absurd faculty of memory. Dude had a good brain for ball.

Lucas probably had more natural ability than anyone to have elite IQ because of his memory. He clearly used that ability at times, such as spending many hours in the gym watching shots hit the rim so that he could instantly calculate based on angle and arc where the rebound would likely go (he used superior positioning and excellent blocking out technique to be an elite rebounder since he didn't have any hops to speak of). But he also wasted some of those natural resources on his own personal stats (yelling at the scorekeeper that he missed one of his rebounds when he should have been hustling back on defense). He had the memory to be at the top of the bbIQ pyramid but didn't fully utilize it by getting distracted with his own stats.

[Texas Chuck]

The best IQ guys are these guys which have no business to be in NBA due lack of body physicality for NBA standards. They are playing exclusively because of their IQ on some degree.

Joe Ingles for example

This is slander for the best shooter in the world with good size

[scrabbarista]

The highest I've seen are CP3 and Jokic.

CP3 has sometimes foiled his own IQ by a lack of poise, but he would be top-tier for me. I go back to about '90-'91.

Some of the OP's ranks are ridiculous to me, but I'll chill. It's not worth arguing about.

[Mogspan]

Rodman low-key has tremendous BBIQ himself. As much of an all-time freak athlete that he was, his rebounding and defensive prowess were in large part due to his mind.

[Jack Dempsey]

Rodman low-key has tremendous BBIQ himself. As much of an all-time freak athlete that he was, his rebounding and defensive prowess were in large part due to his mind.

Just wanted to mention him. I think it was Phil Jackson that said that nobody learned to play in the triangle quicker than Rodman. He was an incredibly smart player.

LeBron's BBIQ is overrated imo, Kobe (worst shoot selection of all NBA Greats) and KG shouldn't be on this list. Duncan is underrated.
Out of the guys not mentioned yet, Brian Shaw, Jacques Vaughn and Teodosic come to my mind.

[Run DLC]

KD shouldn’t be on this list. Great player in terms of skills and all-around scoring, arguably the best 1-on-1 scorer ever, decent passer and playmaker, but lacks the IQ to systematically exploit matchups when he gets double teamed, he doesn’t any strategy for the double team coverage, just the same usual desperate telegraph pass that usually gets taken away or thrown out of bounce.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Hakeem in D tier is of the one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. He invented a move that is pretty much Unstoppable. He's also considered to be one of the greatest defenders in league history. How can a guy that's top 10 in blocks and steals not have one of the highest basketball IQs. Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

[penbeast0]

Hakeem in D tier is of the one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. He invented a move that is pretty much Unstoppable. He's also considered to be one of the greatest defenders in league history. How can a guy that's top 10 in blocks and steals not have one of the highest basketball IQs. Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

While Hakeem may deserve to be in a higher tier and certainly I have him as one of the more intelligent big men of all time, the arguments you made aren't particularly strong.
(a) God Shammgod created a move that is also pretty much unstoppable if it works. The dreamshake is a cool move, not necessarily a high IQ one.
(b) Your strongest argument. If defense is about intelligence, and that's clearly at least a part, then yes, it shows BBIQ. Of course that makes notable defenders like Metta World Peace and Vernon Maxwell presumably high IQ players as well.
(c) Again, neither blocks nor steals is necessarily a measure of IQ. Shaqtin the Fool GOAT Javale Mcgee is a high per minute shot blocker, Manute Bol is the GOAT of block %. Same goes for steals. Often players get higher block/steal totals early in their career before they learn not to gamble all the time. Again, this doesn't mean Hakeem's blocks and steals aren't intelligent ones.

I think it matters how you make your defensive impact and using your blocks and steals to further team goals rather than just to pump stats.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Hakeem in D tier is of the one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. He invented a move that is pretty much Unstoppable. He's also considered to be one of the greatest defenders in league history. How can a guy that's top 10 in blocks and steals not have one of the highest basketball IQs. Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

While Hakeem may deserve to be in a higher tier and certainly I have him as one of the more intelligent big men of all time, the arguments you made aren't particularly strong.
(a) God Shammgod created a move that is also pretty much unstoppable if it works. The dreamshake is a cool move, not necessarily a high IQ one.
(b) Your strongest argument. If defense is about intelligence, and that's clearly at least a part, then yes, it shows BBIQ. Of course that makes notable defenders like Metta World Peace and Vernon Maxwell presumably high IQ players as well.
(c) Again, neither blocks nor steals is necessarily a measure of IQ. Shaqtin the Fool GOAT Javale Mcgee is a high per minute shot blocker, Manute Bol is the GOAT of block %. Same goes for steals. Often players get higher block/steal totals early in their career before they learn not to gamble all the time. Again, this doesn't mean Hakeem's blocks and steals aren't intelligent ones.

I think it matters how you make your defensive impact and using your blocks and steals to further team goals rather than just to pump stats.

Well I guess I worded it wrong. He would use a plethora of moves not just the dream shake. His footwork in the paint is still some of the best I've seen. He would react to his opponent and have a counter for their counter. IMHO he's arguably the most skilled PF/C of all time. His timing was incredible and his game could fit any era up until today. IMHO he's a better Embiid without the injury history

I will also nominate Aryvdas Sabonis, Jason Williams and Vlade Divac as guys who had really high basket iqs

[Mogspan]

Rodman low-key has tremendous BBIQ himself. As much of an all-time freak athlete that he was, his rebounding and defensive prowess were in large part due to his mind.

Just wanted to mention him. I think it was Phil Jackson that said that nobody learned to play in the triangle quicker than Rodman. He was an incredibly smart player.

LeBron's BBIQ is overrated imo, Kobe (worst shoot selection of all NBA Greats) and KG shouldn't be on this list. Duncan is underrated.
Out of the guys not mentioned yet, Brian Shaw, Jacques Vaughn and Teodosic come to my mind.

KG was an incredibly smart player. Watch Ben Taylor’s video on his peak.

LeBron is an extremely smart player as well but I agree a bit overrated in that regard. What makes him special is a high IQ combined with world-class athleticism.

[OhayoKD]

Hakeem in D tier is of the one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. He invented a move that is pretty much Unstoppable. He's also considered to be one of the greatest defenders in league history. How can a guy that's top 10 in blocks and steals not have one of the highest basketball IQs. Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

While Hakeem may deserve to be in a higher tier and certainly I have him as one of the more intelligent big men of all time, the arguments you made aren't particularly strong.
(a) God Shammgod created a move that is also pretty much unstoppable if it works. The dreamshake is a cool move, not necessarily a high IQ one.
(b) Your strongest argument. If defense is about intelligence, and that's clearly at least a part, then yes, it shows BBIQ. Of course that makes notable defenders like Metta World Peace and Vernon Maxwell presumably high IQ players as well.
(c) Again, neither blocks nor steals is necessarily a measure of IQ. Shaqtin the Fool GOAT Javale Mcgee is a high per minute shot blocker, Manute Bol is the GOAT of block %. Same goes for steals. Often players get higher block/steal totals early in their career before they learn not to gamble all the time. Again, this doesn't mean Hakeem's blocks and steals aren't intelligent ones.

I think it matters how you make your defensive impact and using your blocks and steals to further team goals rather than just to pump stats.

Steals can both be a result of iq and lackthereof. Is Jordan high iq because he led the league in steals or not high iq because he was in the 17th percentile in defensive error-rate. Speaking of

Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

Everyone in tier A ran their own offenses with Draymond and Chris Paul as rare two-way floor generals. Per Jackson, Pippen was their offensive(and defensive) floor general. Why should Jordan go in a tier?

[OhayoKD]

Rodman low-key has tremendous BBIQ himself. As much of an all-time freak athlete that he was, his rebounding and defensive prowess were in large part due to his mind.

Just wanted to mention him. I think it was Phil Jackson that said that nobody learned to play in the triangle quicker than Rodman. He was an incredibly smart player.

LeBron's BBIQ is overrated imo, Kobe (worst shoot selection of all NBA Greats) and KG shouldn't be on this list. Duncan is underrated.
Out of the guys not mentioned yet, Brian Shaw, Jacques Vaughn and Teodosic come to my mind.

KG was an incredibly smart player. Watch Ben Taylor’s video on his peak.

LeBron is an extremely smart player as well but I agree a bit overrated in that regard. What makes him special is a high IQ combined with world-class athleticism.

Is he?

Two-way floor-general who calls out and schemes vs opposing playbooks and substitution patterns should be pretty high. Bob Meyers also says he was deciding who to sub in and out during the finals.

[Rishkar]

The best IQ guys are these guys which have no business to be in NBA due lack of body physicality for NBA standards. They are playing exclusively because of their IQ on some degree.

Joe Ingles for example

Joe Ingles is the smartest basketball player that I have ever watched live. It's him, Russell, Stockton, and Nash at the top for me.

[tsherkin]

Hakeem in D tier is of the one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. He invented a move that is pretty much Unstoppable. He's also considered to be one of the greatest defenders in league history. How can a guy that's top 10 in blocks and steals not have one of the highest basketball IQs. Jordan should be in by tier at a minimum

Mmmm... Athleticism was the basis of much of Olajuwon's defense. Fast hands, great reflexes. Incredible mobility at size. Excellent anticipation.

It's also important to distinguish skill set from bball IQ. Dream cultivated a very good scoring arsenal, sure. He also gamed for some of the toughest, most contested shots in the game... which capped his efficiency but also made him more resilient in the playoffs because he was already guarding himself the way they intended to come the postseason.

But we also know that he was slow and somewhat weak at making reads for passes and wasn't a particularly good playmaker. We know that Rudy T had to dumb it down for him pretty significantly to get him moving the ball, making things clearer and more obvious. Dream also did his thing sort of regardless, right? That's not the kind of player who screams "basketball IQ" so much as the dude who cultivated his iso skills and was an all-time great athlete. He certainly wasn't a stupid player, but also certainly has no business on an ATG IQ list in terms of basketball mind.

Blocks and steals are about effort and athleticism more than they are about IQ.

[AEnigma]

There is not an all-time great defender who does not have a top of the line brain for basketball. Dwight Howard has often been criticised for how some of his beliefs seem to contradict data, but basically every coach and teammate has lauded his overall understanding of how to work within a defensive scheme and how to adapt to different opponents. Anthony Davis, same thing. I would say Hakeem was notably smarter on defence than both (at least relative to his time), and over-indexing on passing — with a reminder that Hakeem is still one of the better all-time centres there and one of the absolute best as an overall playmaker — feels like a framework that is just chasing offence (although that is indeed where Howard at least should rightly be losing marks).

Where Heej placed Hakeem seemed moderately fair, although he could have gone higher too. Hakeem is not an outlier like Russell, Garnett, or Draymond. Little unfair to compare with Duncan because Duncan had outstanding coaching from the start, and a good mentor, and Hakeem’s own example, and a stronger familiarity with the game and the overall environment of professional basketball. But those are enough reasons to put Duncan a tier higher, even if I think status within their respective leagues was more equal.

[falcolombardi]

There is not an all-time great defender who does not have a top of the line brain for basketball. Dwight Howard has often been criticised for how some of his beliefs seem to contradict data, but basically every coach and teammate has lauded his overall understanding of how to work within a defensive scheme and how to adapt to different opponents. Anthony Davis, same thing. I would say Hakeem was notably smarter on defence than both (at least relative to his time), and over-indexing on passing — with a reminder that Hakeem is still one of the better all-time centres there and one of the absolute best as an overall playmaker — feels like a framework that is just chasing offence (although that is indeed where Howard at least should rightly be losing marks).

Where Heej placed Hakeem seemed moderately fair, although he could have gone higher too. Hakeem is not an outlier like Russell, Garnett, or Draymond. Little unfair to compare with Duncan because Duncan had outstanding coaching from the start, and a good mentor, and Hakeem’s own example, and a stronger familiarity with the game and the overall environment of professional basketball. But those are enough reasons to put Duncan a tier higher, even if I think status within their respective leagues was more equal.

We also overly generalize defensive and offensive IQ amd assume anyone who is great at the former will be great at the latter

Like people who used to say "what stops jokic from being like gasol/draymond? He is smart too!" And while part of the answer was (gasol and draymond crazy lenght and better foot mobility) it just assumed defense is somethingh any smart offensive player can intuitively undwrstand better than defensive specialists as if it was the same kind of decision making

(And the consideration that defensive geniuses intuitively understand offense doesmt usually happen)