NBA's GREATEST TEAM -- Finals now 6-4

[penbeast0]

This is the competition for the NBA's greatest team. Matchups will be a 7 game series with 3 games at each home court and the 7th game on a neutral court if necessary. Teams are seeded based on their combined regular season + playoff records as calculated by Mean-Streets. Games will use the rules and referees of the older era team but with equivalent equipment, training, nutrition, etc.

For the first round there will be one day per round for voting.

1. 1995-96 Bulls - 87%
2. 1971-72 Lakers - 83.5 %
3. 1966-67 Sixers - 82.3 %
4. 1985-86 Celtics - 82%
5. 1970-71 Bucks - 81.3 %
6. 1982-83 Sixers - 81.1 %
7. 1986-87 Lakers - 80%
8. 1991-92 Bulls - 78.8 %
9. 1988-89 Pistons - 78.7 %
10. 1998-99 Spurs - 77.6 %
11. 1959-60 Celtics - 76.1 %
12. 1944-65 Celtics - 76%
13. 2007-08 Celtics - 75.9%
14. 2000-01 Lakers - 72.4%
15. 2002-2003 Spurs - 71.7%
16. 1969-70 Knicks - 71.3%

Matchups:
1 v. 16
8 v. 9
5 v. 12
4 v. 13
3 v. 14
6 v. 11
7 v. 10
2 v. 15

[penbeast0]

1996-96 Chicago Bulls v. 1969-70 New York Knicks. Remember that these are 1970 rules which means no 3 point shot. The Bulls were the more dominant team but were heavily reliant on the 3 point shot. The Knicks were dependant on their great defense but it was focused on the C, PF, and PG spots which the Bulls triangle offense does not depend on. Both face major challenges that weren't present in their actual championship runs.

Chicago Bulls

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1 Michael Jordan 37.7 .495    .834   6.6 4.3   2.4 30.4
2 Scottie Pippen 36.7 .463    .679   6.4 5.9   2.6 19.4
3 Toni Kukoc     26.0 .490    .772   4.0 3.5   1.9 13.1
4 Luc Longley    26.5 .482    .777   5.1 1.9   3.6 9.1
5 Steve Kerr     23.4 .506    .929   1.3 2.3   1.3 8.4
6 Ron Harper     23.6 .467    .705   2.7 2.6   1.7 7.4
7 Dennis Rodman  32.6 .480    .528  14.9 2.5   3.1 5.5
8 Bill Wennington 15.0 .493   .860   2.5 0.6   2.4 5.3



New York Knicks

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1 Willis Reed      38.1  .507     .756   13.9 2.0    3.5 21.7
2 Walt Frazier     39.5  .518     .748    6.0 8.2    2.6 20.9
3 Dick Barnett     33.8  .475     .714    2.7 3.6    2.7 14.9
4 Dave DeBusschere 33.3  .451     .688   10.0 2.5    3.1 14.6
5 Bill Bradley     31.3  .460     .824    3.6 4.0    3.3 14.5
6 Cazzie Russell   20.0  .498     .775    3.0 1.7    1.8 11.5
7 Dave Stallworth  16.8  .429     .716    3.9 1.7    2.4 7.8
8 Mike Riordan     20.7  .464     .691    2.4 2.5    2.4 7.7


[penbeast0]

I'm really curious to see how people think the matchups will set up and play out; especially without a 3 point line.

[Mean_Streets]

Walt Frasier keeps Jordan below his season scoring average, but Jordan returns the favor on Frasier. Pippen's edge at the SF spot is as good as Reed's edge in the C spot and the Bulls have the edge on the boards. Overall, I think it would be a good series. Bulls in 6.

[JordansBulls]

Different Knicks team, but still the Knicks and still the team that MJ loves to play. Frazier defends MJ well, but the big 3 can totally hold Frazier down and Rodman would contain Reed.
Bulls take this one in 6 games.

[Baller 24]

Frazier gaurds MJ pretty well, but Jordan's defense on the otherside slows Frazier down rather easily. Hmm...Pippen easily has a very good series, I'm thinking it comes down to the front-court, where DBuss and Reed do a terrific job of actually scoring and causing all kinds of problems, but IMO the Jordan/Pippen combo will cause more problems to the back-court of the Knicks, than the Knicks can do to the front-court against the Bulls, plus the effectiveness of the Knicks front-court isn't that great.

Bulls in 6.

[ronnymac2]

This is actually a really close matchup. I think the 73 Knicks matchup better since you can take Jerry Lucas off the bench and you have Earl Monroe to create his own shot. Those 2 would help vs. the stifling Bulls defense. As it is, this is the 70's Knicks. Still a great matchup.

The offenses actually are similar. There is a lot of player movement and ball movement, and not a whole lot of 1 vs. 1. That is a good thing. It's especially good since both teams have such great defenders. Frazier, Debusschere, Pippen, Rodman, and Jordan and 5 of the greatest defensive players ever, and Reed is a very good defender, too.

I actually think having no 3 point shot will help the Bulls defense. The Bulls defense was so stifling because they could shutdown passing and driving lanes without a really dominant big man defender/shot-blocker. Nobody can really post up Harper/Jordan/Pippen, and if you put Rodman on the best big man, that guy will have trouble scoring, too. Basically, even without a shot-blocker, the Bulls could strangle an offense with it's interior defense. It had the length, smarts, and speed to recover out to shooters. Without having to deal with the 3 point shot, their job gets easier. I think they can cover more spots on the floor.

The Knicks DO have a very intelligent offense, but so do the Bulls. I think the Bulls offense is a little better equipped to attack the Knicks defense. They have a few post-up options to take advantage of (mj, pip, Kukoc), they have an unguardable player in Jordan, and they have the passing to get the ball to the spots they like without the Knicks team defense being able to effectively shut them down. I'll take the Bulls. Closer than one would expect though.

[Old World Order]

The Bulls would win, most obviously because of the great clutch scorer, but just as importantly the fact that while the Knicks have a great defense, the Bulls can match them there. Further, the Bulls bench is a little too explosive in comparison to New York's. I can't imagine the series going less than 6 games, but I can't see the Bulls losing it, either.

[cougarfan]

Jordan's will to win is something I've never seen nor do I think I will see it out of another basketball player in my lifetime. (only 34 years old) With that said I didn't see that New York team play live. I suspect that clyde would do his best to keep MJ in check, but MJ would still go for 30 ppg. Bulls in 5 or 6

[penbeast0]

Seems pretty convincing win for the Bulls (as expected) . . . next one is the 72 Lakers v. the 03 Spurs; unless there's a sudden rush of Knicks fans, I'll post it now. Again, remember that the rules and refs are from 1972 so no 3 point shot (and Elgin Baylor was injured all year and not a significant factor)

1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers (69-12) Ave Margin of Victory 13.3pts (12-3) playoffs.

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1 Gail Goodrich     37.1 10.1 20.7 .487    5.8 6.8 .850    3.6 4.5    2.6 25.9
2 Jerry West        38.6  9.5 20.0 .477    6.7 8.2 .814    4.2 9.7    2.7 25.8
3 Jim McMillian     38.1  8.0 16.6 .482    2.7 3.5 .791    6.5 2.6    2.6 18.8
4 Wilt Chamberlain  42.3  6.0  9.3 .649    2.7 6.4 .422   19.2 4.0    2.4 14.8
5 Happy Hairston    34.4  4.6 10.0 .461    3.9 5.0 .779   13.1 2.4    3.1 13.1
6 Flynn Robinson    15.7  4.1  8.4 .490    1.7 2.0 .860    1.8 2.2    2.2 9.9
7 Leroy Ellis       14.6  1.9  4.1 .460    0.9 1.3 .695    4.2 0.6    1.6 4.6



2002-03 San Antonio Spurs (60-22) Ave margin of victory 5.9pts (16-8) playoffs

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1 Tim Duncan     39.3 8.8 17.2 .513  5.6 7.8 .710 12.9 3.9  23.3
2 Tony Parker    33.8 5.9 12.7 .464  2.7 3.5 .755 2.6 5.3  15.5
3 St. Jackson    28.2 4.5 10.2 .435 1.7 2.3 .760  3.6 2.3  11.8
4 Malik Rose     24.5 3.7 8.0 .459  3.1 3.9 .791  6.4 1.6  10.4
5 David Robinson 26.2 3.1 6.6 .469  2.4 3.3 .710  7.9 1.0  8.5
6 Manu Ginobili  20.7 2.5 5.8 .438  1.8 2.5 .737  2.3 2.0  7.6
7 Bruce Bowen    31.3 2.7 5.8 .466  0.4 1.1 .404  2.9 1.4  7.1
8 Steve Smith    19.5 2.1 5.5 .388  1.8 2.2 .833  1.9 1.3  6.8

[Tesla]

Go with the Bulls on the first one...Although it's probably closer than expected because of matchups. Reed/Debusschere versus Pippen/Rodman, slight edge to the Knicks, although MJ makes up that advantage over Frazier... and then add that it's in modern rules/refs and we have a Bulls victory.


On the second one... Gotta go with the Lakers. Duncan/Robinson would do a good job on Wilt, but Wilt wasn't counted on to score very much, they still won't stop him from grabbing boards, blocking shots, and passing. That Wilt was probably the best defensive player of all time, he would do as good of a job on Duncan as anyone. Manu isn't the Manu we know of today, neither is Parker or Jackson. An aging West enjoys a favorable advantage, as does Goodrich. The Lakers a probably a more cohesive unit, and they also have the rules/refs from their era, playing more comfortably. Lakers in 6.

[JordansBulls]

Lakers in 6 on the 2nd one as well.

[Baller 24]

I agree with Telsa, Lakers Wilt is probably the greatest defensive center of all-time, just from videos we can see how motivated he was defensively, when his coach told him to concentrate on that mark, he did so with sheer dominance. I'll say Duncan gets contained, Robinson really isn't a factor, while West/Goodrich enjoy their veteran dominance over Parker/Manu/Jackson (Who were all inconsistent throughout the playoffs and entire season).

Lakers in 6.

[KingLeoric]

Duncan is known to have some trouble against bigger defenders like Shaq and Yao, and Lakers Wilt was a dominant defender. Duncan will have problems generating offense against him. Robinson was essentially a scrub by that point in his career. I'm not sure how good Goodrich was defensively, so Parker might do decently offensively, but in 2003 he wasn't as good as he is now and his defense was awful, so Goodrich will live up to his status as the leading scorer of LA easily. Manu was a rookie, West will dominate him. Stephen Jackson might do some damage at guard against undersized LA guards, but he wasn't that good at that time and it won't be enough. The lack of three pointers hurts the Spurs because Ginobili and Jackson rely on it as a major part of their offense and Bowen is totally useless offensively without it. Lakers in 5.

[TMACFORMVP]

I'd almost lean towards the Knicks in the first comparison, their defense was legendary, and their execution was near flawless, the Knicks have a large advantage at both the PG and C position as well, Ewing's Knicks gave the Bulls more problems than almost any other team in the league, and downgrading Ewing to Reed and upgrading Starks to Frazier, and other upgrades in guys like DeBusschere are significant as well.

But saying that, Jordan's advantage is likely the largest in the series, he should do a better job on Frazier (or Pippen might get that task, as Phil has been a coach that's liked to put his primary defender on the opponents primary ball-handler, but in this case Frazier was their best perimeter scorer as well) then Frazier would do on Jordan. I agree with ronny in that the Bulls defense might be even better with no three point line as it's easier to gamble and get steals, while their two best players never relied on the three point shot either.

I'll go with the Bulls in a REAL close one.

As for the second series, I'd go with the Lakers, I'm a fan of the twin towers in Duncan/Robinson, but as Telsa said Wilt was still a largely effective player and the best defensive player in the series. And with Wilt and Hariston, they'd have the advantage as the Lakers would have the best rebounder in the series and Robinson is noticeably past his prime. West/Goodrich is lethal on the perimeter, and McMillan has always been an underrated role player on those 'chip teams.

Gimme the Lakers.

[Harison]

First series: Bulls in 6.

Second: 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers in 4 or 5. West was much better than Parker, and pass prime Wilt would still do more than decent job in the post. Goodrich and McMillian also better than the rest of Spurs core, DRob was pretty much a shell of former self.

[Old World Order]

I'm just not seeing this Spurs team being able to compete. The Lakers have defensive dynamos at every position aside from McMillan, and the Spurs have one and only one dominant scorer. It's just a recipe for disaster. I'm not going to say that Duncan would be intimidated, but (shockingly) Happy wasn't really a nice guy on the court at all. He and Wilt make an astoundingly good defensive frontcourt. And, of course, that doesn't even touch upon the huge advantage in LA's favor in the backcourt. This is probably the easiest call I'll have to make regarding this tournament, because the Lakers are a legit top 3-4 (at worst) team of all-time and I think these Spurs are pretty easily the worst team in this competition.

[penbeast0]

With better than a 5-0 advantage it looks like a blowout and I wil call this one early for the Lakers.
Next matchup should be better with the 66-67 Sixers and the 2000-2001 Lakers . . . Wilt v. Shaq, Kobe v. Greer/Walker/Cunningham. Again remember that the rules and refs from 1966-67 are in effect so no three point shot (among other things the carry rule is enforced; but we are also assuming that players have time to adjust as the older teams have time to adjust to modern training, equipment, etc.)

The 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers (68-13) Ave Pt Differential (9.4) Playoff Record (11-4)

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1 Wilt Chamberlain 45.5 9.7 14.2 .683    4.8 10.8 .441 24.2 7.8    1.8 24.1
2 Hal Greer        38.6 8.7 19.1 .459    4.6 5.8 .788   5.3 3.8    3.8 22.1
3 Chet Walker      33.2 6.9 14.2 .488    5.5 7.2 .766   8.1 2.3    2.9 19.3
4 Billy Cunningham 26.8 6.9 15.0 .459    4.7 6.9 .686   7.3 2.5    3.2 18.5
5 Wali Jones       27.8 5.2 12.1 .431    2.8 3.3 .838   3.3 3.7    3.0 13.2
6 Luke Jackson     29.3 4.8 10.9 .438    2.4 3.2 .759   8.9 1.4    3.4 12.0
7 Larry Costello    19.9 2.7 6.0 .444    2.4 2.7 .902   2.1 2.9    2.9 7.8


The 200-2001 Los Angeles Lakers (56-26) Ave Pt Differential (3.4) Playoff Record (15-1)

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1 Shaquille O'Neal 39.5 11.0 19.2 .572 6.7 13.1 .513  12.7 3.7  3.5 28.7
2 Kobe Bryant      40.9 10.3 22.2 .464  7.0 8.2 .853  5.9 5.0  3.3 28.5 
3 Rick Fox         27.9 3.5 7.9 .444  1.2 1.5 .779  4.0 3.2  2.7 9.6
4 Horace Grant     31.0 3.4 7.4 .462  1.7 2.2 .775  7.1 1.6  2.4 8.5
5 Isaiah Rider     18.0 3.0 7.0 .426  1.1 1.2 .855  2.3 1.7  1.6 7.6
6 Ron Harper       24.2 2.7 5.8 .469  0.7 1.0 .708  3.5 2.4  1.5 6.5
7 Brian Shaw       22.9 2.1 5.1 .399  0.6 0.8 .797  3.8 3.2  2.0 5.3
8 Robert Horry     20.1 1.9 4.8 .387  0.7 1.1 .711  3.7 1.6  2.7 5.2
9 Mike Penberthy   16.1 1.7 4.2 .414  0.5 0.6 .903  1.2 1.3  1.1 5.0


[Mean_Streets]

Previous Series: '72 Lakers in 5.

This Series: I got the 1967 Sixers in 6 games. Sixers have more firepower and were better defensively.

[Baller 24]

I consider those Sixers the GOAT team. Wilt was more focused than ever, he played every role his team asked him to do. I don't think Shaq has what it takes to guard Wilt, he's going to have his way on the offensive end, while on the defensive end, I think Wilt can slow down Shaq, maybe not to the greatest extent, but he'd do better than anyone did in the '01 playoffs. Overall I just see this '67 team blending much better overall, they pretty much had it all on both ends, including chemistry.


Sixers in 6.