What would it take to get Ben Simmons?

[D21]

As much as I understand that Simmons can bring defense, I'm still not biting any argument where I would consider him a far bigger piece in any trade than the other player involved.
Yes, ATL are struggling to get back to their last season level, but it's the same players! So they can. Even better, without Reddish give more plays to everyone, and as he had the worst Net rating of all, the team may even be better without him.

Now, just look at one stat of last season :
- Colins had a +5.2 PER difference with his direct opponents, and ATL were at +5.3 ON/Off court with him, 3rd behind Trae at +9.6 and Capela at +9.0
So 4.3 less than the leader of his team
- Simmons had a +4.9 PER difference with direct opponents, and PHI were at +6.6 On/Off court with him, 3rd behind Embiid at +12.6 and Curry at +7.4
So 6 less than the leader of his team

I already checked a lot of this kind of stats in the past regarding players involved in a trade and what happened after a trade, and it leads to me think that we shouldn't treat Simmons like a far better player than John like most media are doing. I understand that PHI can try to increase the value of Simmons, but that the media can treat him like he's twice the player John is, no.
ATL beat them while being injured too (Embiid supposed to be at 50% but still scoring 40pts... and Green out, while ATL had Bogi on one knee, no Hunter to shut down some of their shooters)
And don't forget that John may be limited on some plays, but Simmons too. We are not talking about a guy that can all the things, no, he's guy that doesn't shoot 3 at all and he's not very good at FT

Based on that, and adding the fact that our two Cs, who can create a excellent rotation on this spot but can't shoot 3s, I almost ready to bet on the fact that, if you have to trade Collins (to PHI or another team) and Bogi or Hunter (I don't want to consider both and Collins), this team won't be better than they are, or than what they are able to be.

This team, with Hunter healthy last season, had .500 chance to beat MIL, and PHX
I'm pretty sure that they would instantly be better because of the mental impact of the trade, but that after that moment, their ceiling would be lower.

[graymule]

Please! Do not trade for 76ers problem child. He brings with him the very same thing. He might work out
great and fit right in. He might not. Either way too much of our assets would be gone. Don't do it...

[Jamaaliver]

This report seems backwards. I'm guessing Hawks lost interest when Tobias was added to the trade talks...

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[HMFFL]

:oops:

Please! Do not trade for 76ers problem child. He brings with him the very same thing. He might work out
great and fit right in. He might not. Either way too much of our assets would be gone. Don't do it...

Ben concerns me due to his salary.

2022-2023 $35,448,672
2023-2024 $37,893,408
2024-2025 $40,338,144

15% Trade Kicker

Has Designated Rookie Extension language, can trigger up to 30% of cap if earns All-NBA team in 2019-20 season

No All-NBA: $170M (25%)

All-NBA 3rd team: $190M (28%) - Triggered with 2019-20 All-NBA 3rd Team

All-NBA 2nd team: $196.8M (29%)

All-NBA 1st team: $203.6M (30%)


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/ben-simmons-20206/

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[D21]

I like this player, to bad he didn't develop a decent shot, but I'm sorry, we can have a guy that may cost 40M that can't hit a 3.
If he was able to, PHI may certainly have a ring already.

And in addition of that, they ask us to send picks and more players... it's just a joke

[Jamaaliver]

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[raleigh]

I feel like the Hawks are in between the two poles where it would make sense to go after Ben Simmons:

1) One major player short of contending
2) Desperately needing a face of the franchise

Do they need to consolidate? A little, yes. Do they need to overpay? Not right now.

We're all already operating under reduced expectations for this season. I'd just wait until the summer for a big trade.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I like this player, to bad he didn't develop a decent shot, but I'm sorry, we can have a guy that may cost 40M that can't hit a 3.
If he was able to, PHI may certainly have a ring already.

And in addition of that, they ask us to send picks and more players... it's just a joke

Can't hit a 3, but can play All NBA defense, and facilitate on offense. Not to mention, he's not completely dead as a scorer. The narrative just becomes "Well he chooses not to shoot beyond 10 feet", and therefore he's useless overall because everyone is so dead set on having shooters at every position.

Philly would have a ring if they didn't waste assets on 1 year of Jimmy Butler, and decided to pay Tobias Harris. Not to mention egregiously overpaying Horford. Add in it took the luckiest of bounces from Kawhi Leonard to beat them in 2019, and a literally a "WTF?!" moment from Ben last year that eliminated them earlier than expected.

If Ben somehow wanted to play for Philly again, they'd immediately jump back into being the de facto #1 team in the east. Philly really was a much better matchup for Milwaukee than we were last year, and probably would've won it all considering no one really had an aswer for Embiid.

I just don't see a reason why the Hawks wouldn't improve drastically having Simmons. I mean he literally gives us an answer to most of our problems we have now. Salary at best would the only hold up, but when you're paying John Collins most of what Simmons would make, to do a lot less, I don't think salary would be that big of an obstacle. Especially when Schlenk has mentioned he would pay the tax for championship level team.

[D21]

I like this player, to bad he didn't develop a decent shot, but I'm sorry, we can have a guy that may cost 40M that can't hit a 3.
If he was able to, PHI may certainly have a ring already.

And in addition of that, they ask us to send picks and more players... it's just a joke

Can't hit a 3, but can play All NBA defense, and facilitate on offense. Not to mention, he's not completely dead as a scorer. The narrative just becomes "Well he chooses not to shoot beyond 10 feet", and therefore he's useless overall because everyone is so dead set on having shooters at every position.

Philly would have a ring if they didn't waste assets on 1 year of Jimmy Butler, and decided to pay Tobias Harris. Not to mention egregiously overpaying Horford. Add in it took the luckiest of bounces from Kawhi Leonard to beat them in 2019, and a literally a "WTF?!" moment from Ben last year that eliminated them earlier than expected.

If Ben somehow wanted to play for Philly again, they'd immediately jump back into being the de facto #1 team in the east. Philly really was a much better matchup for Milwaukee than we were last year, and probably would've won it all considering no one really had an aswer for Embiid.

I just don't see a reason why the Hawks wouldn't improve drastically having Simmons. I mean he literally gives us an answer to most of our problems we have now. Salary at best would the only hold up, but when you're paying John Collins most of what Simmons would make, to do a lot less, I don't think salary would be that big of an obstacle. Especially when Schlenk has mentioned he would pay the tax for championship level team.

When I saying "if he had a decent 3pts shot, they would have at least a ring", it's exactly for this reason : even at low percentage, it would made PHI at least a bit better, which means, they would have avoid these situations you just mentioned
It's just the same thing, but from two POV.
You see it from "they had Ben, and were eliminated by a very small thing"
I see "if they had been a very little bit better (for example by spreading the floor better with Ben shooting a bit at 3pts), they would not even know these situations because they would have won these games before these moments"
He was there, with his supposed incredible defense, and they lost.

If he play again with them, they are favorite, but it's not because he would be one coming back that he would be the primary reason.
Again, I'm not saying he's no good, just that this team is good, and can be good with Ben because of Embiid.

I'm a bit harsh on how to explain that,but it's just that I see that trading three of our guys for him and his contract would be a huge mistake. It'd be a gamble, for a team having two Centers not shooting 3.

[Jamaaliver]

An excerpt from The Athletic.

Projecting the Hawks’ future: Ben Simmons and other potential trade targets for Atlanta



I think I’m actually more interested in the Simmons-Hawks idea than most. How aggressively I’d pursue it would be dependent on a couple of factors. First, Atlanta would need to talk to Simmons’ representation ahead of time and get a feel for what his reaction would be to becoming a half-court, screen-and-roll distributor out of short-rolls next to Trae Young, a la the Draymond Green to Young’s Stephen Curry. If the answer is that Simmons isn’t interested in this role, it would be a non-starter for me.

Second, it would come down to price point, because I would only want Simmons on Atlanta if the Hawks could keep some of the shooting they already have on the roster around him. The whole idea would be creating something like Warriors Southeast, something Travis Schlenk will be very familiar with from his time in the Bay. Mixing Young with Simmons in ball screens while maintaining some of the shooting around them that the team already possesses in Huerter and Hunter potentially could be lethal, offensively. That four-player core, I think, would actually work to accentuate the skills that Young and Simmons have. Simmons and his ability to make plays out of four-on-threes would really penalize teams for blitzing Young, something Milwaukee did often in the Eastern Conference finals series last year. It’d open up even more space for Young.

It would create problems with Clint Capela, and I’d be in favor of the team moving him in the future (once he becomes tradable).

But while he’s on the roster, there are ways to utilize him. The key there would obviously be spacing, which is why keeping guys like Hunter and Huerter is critical. Simmons is also one of the best 3-point kickout passers in the league and one of the best transition drivers in the league, so he’d find open shooters.

[Jamaaliver]

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[Geaux_Hawks]

I like this player, to bad he didn't develop a decent shot, but I'm sorry, we can have a guy that may cost 40M that can't hit a 3.
If he was able to, PHI may certainly have a ring already.

And in addition of that, they ask us to send picks and more players... it's just a joke

Can't hit a 3, but can play All NBA defense, and facilitate on offense. Not to mention, he's not completely dead as a scorer. The narrative just becomes "Well he chooses not to shoot beyond 10 feet", and therefore he's useless overall because everyone is so dead set on having shooters at every position.

Philly would have a ring if they didn't waste assets on 1 year of Jimmy Butler, and decided to pay Tobias Harris. Not to mention egregiously overpaying Horford. Add in it took the luckiest of bounces from Kawhi Leonard to beat them in 2019, and a literally a "WTF?!" moment from Ben last year that eliminated them earlier than expected.

If Ben somehow wanted to play for Philly again, they'd immediately jump back into being the de facto #1 team in the east. Philly really was a much better matchup for Milwaukee than we were last year, and probably would've won it all considering no one really had an aswer for Embiid.

I just don't see a reason why the Hawks wouldn't improve drastically having Simmons. I mean he literally gives us an answer to most of our problems we have now. Salary at best would the only hold up, but when you're paying John Collins most of what Simmons would make, to do a lot less, I don't think salary would be that big of an obstacle. Especially when Schlenk has mentioned he would pay the tax for championship level team.

When I saying "if he had a decent 3pts shot, they would have at least a ring", it's exactly for this reason : even at low percentage, it would made PHI at least a bit better, which means, they would have avoid these situations you just mentioned
It's just the same thing, but from two POV.
You see it from "they had Ben, and were eliminated by a very small thing"
I see "if they had been a very little bit better (for example by spreading the floor better with Ben shooting a bit at 3pts), they would not even know these situations because they would have won these games before these moments"
He was there, with his supposed incredible defense, and they lost.

If he play again with them, they are favorite, but it's not because he would be one coming back that he would be the primary reason.
Again, I'm not saying he's no good, just that this team is good, and can be good with Ben because of Embiid.

I'm a bit harsh on how to explain that,but it's just that I see that trading three of our guys for him and his contract would be a huge mistake. It'd be a gamble, for a team having two Centers not shooting 3.

I'm not saying you don't have a fair assessment/POV, but every player has weakness's. Embiid himself has conditioning/health issues.

I can agree with you on Embiid being the engine, but where you knock Ben's weakness as being more the reason for their shortcomings, I say his strengths are what allow Philly to be a force despite those weakness's. The plays may be a small portion in regards to it being just 1 play each out of entire series worth of play, but it had a huge impact overall in both games. In both games, it changed the trajectory of the game, in which Kawhi's shot was literally a game winner and not a normal GW either.

My point is, they're not walking into a series today as favorites like they once were in the past when they actually had Simmons. which is why Morey asking for a lot makes sense for Ben the player, although he's not considering the predicament itself, puts him in a position where he doesn't have much leverage.

[D21]

Can't hit a 3, but can play All NBA defense, and facilitate on offense. Not to mention, he's not completely dead as a scorer. The narrative just becomes "Well he chooses not to shoot beyond 10 feet", and therefore he's useless overall because everyone is so dead set on having shooters at every position.

Philly would have a ring if they didn't waste assets on 1 year of Jimmy Butler, and decided to pay Tobias Harris. Not to mention egregiously overpaying Horford. Add in it took the luckiest of bounces from Kawhi Leonard to beat them in 2019, and a literally a "WTF?!" moment from Ben last year that eliminated them earlier than expected.

If Ben somehow wanted to play for Philly again, they'd immediately jump back into being the de facto #1 team in the east. Philly really was a much better matchup for Milwaukee than we were last year, and probably would've won it all considering no one really had an aswer for Embiid.

I just don't see a reason why the Hawks wouldn't improve drastically having Simmons. I mean he literally gives us an answer to most of our problems we have now. Salary at best would the only hold up, but when you're paying John Collins most of what Simmons would make, to do a lot less, I don't think salary would be that big of an obstacle. Especially when Schlenk has mentioned he would pay the tax for championship level team.

When I saying "if he had a decent 3pts shot, they would have at least a ring", it's exactly for this reason : even at low percentage, it would made PHI at least a bit better, which means, they would have avoid these situations you just mentioned
It's just the same thing, but from two POV.
You see it from "they had Ben, and were eliminated by a very small thing"
I see "if they had been a very little bit better (for example by spreading the floor better with Ben shooting a bit at 3pts), they would not even know these situations because they would have won these games before these moments"
He was there, with his supposed incredible defense, and they lost.

If he play again with them, they are favorite, but it's not because he would be one coming back that he would be the primary reason.
Again, I'm not saying he's no good, just that this team is good, and can be good with Ben because of Embiid.

I'm a bit harsh on how to explain that,but it's just that I see that trading three of our guys for him and his contract would be a huge mistake. It'd be a gamble, for a team having two Centers not shooting 3.

I'm not saying you don't have a fair assessment/POV, but every player has weakness's. Embiid himself has conditioning/health issues.

I can agree with you on Embiid being the engine, but where you knock Ben's weakness as being more the reason for their shortcomings, I say his strengths are what allow Philly to be a force despite those weakness's. The plays may be a small portion in regards to it being just 1 play each out of entire series worth of play, but it had a huge impact overall in both games. In both games, it changed the trajectory of the game, in which Kawhi's shot was literally a game winner and not a normal GW either.

My point is, they're not walking into a series today as favorites like they once were in the past when they actually had Simmons. which is why Morey asking for a lot makes sense for Ben the player, although he's not considering the predicament itself, puts him in a position where he doesn't have much leverage.

I understand, but since he has weakness, and he's not perfect, but will make 33 to 40M per season, the price is already high. So if you had that they want 3 of our guys, all shooting 3s so helping spacing the floor for Trae to have only one man to beat, or if being doubled, a lot of opportunities to pass, it's even higher. And now, if Hunter and/or Okongwu has/have to be in the deal, we lost defense that we know can work. And it's a 100% NO for me.
I'm just sure that if we had Clint/Onyeka/Hunter healthy from the start of the season, the record would be far higher, and we would have never heard of any defensive problem in this team, so the Simmons rumors would have never exist, except what Schlenk certainly thought at first like Reddish+Gallo and a pick.

I would never give more than that, and the more the defense improves in the next weeks, the less reasons Schlenk has to listen to PHI price.

[Jamaaliver]

An excerpt from The Philadelphia Inquirer:

James Harden or bust? Sources indicate the Sixers are all-in even if it means prolonging the Ben Simmons saga

Another source implied that teams are hesitant to speak with Sixers president of basketball operations Daryl Morey, who they believe moves the goal post when discussing terms



The Sixers are looking to trade Simmons, who has yet to play this season after requesting to be moved last August.

“At the end of the day, it’s Harden all the way,” said a league source, speaking on condition of anonymity. “They want Harden whether they get him now, whether they get him on a forced sign-and-trade this summer.”

The Athletic published similar reporting Monday morning, asserting that the Sixers prefer to wait to pursue Harden or another superstar in the offseason.

The Sixers would have to keep Simmons past this season in order to complete a sign-and-trade with Harden. Simmons will make $35.4 million next season. While the Sixers have denied it, a growing number of sources have said the team wants to include Tobias Harris in any Simmons deal. Harris, who’s making $35.9 million this season, is scheduled to bring in $37.6 million next season, and trading him would free up cap space.

One source said a recent potential deal with the Atlanta Hawks broke down when Harris’ name was added to the talks.

On Thursday, Morey said it was less than likely for Simmons to be dealt before the Feb. 10 deadline during an appearance on 97.5 The Fanatic. A source said whenever teams enter discussions with Morey, he pushes for two or three draft picks.

Another source said teams are hesitant to speak with Morey because they believe he moves the goal posts when discussing terms. If you think you’re close to having a deal in place, Morey will return to the table and raise the stakes.

The sources don’t think Morey is serious about making a deal for Simmons at this time. The Sixers’ position that they’re not going to trade Simmons just to make a trade has been consistent. They’re only willing to make a deal for an A-list player in return.

“The reigning thought process throughout the league is Harden will be a Sixer next season,” a source said.

[Jamaaliver]

An excerpt from The Athletic

Sources say Sixers prefer a summer deal



The 76ers continue to engage in trade talks around Simmons...But multiple sources...tell The Athletic that the 76ers are believed to prefer to wait in order to pursue Harden or another superstar in the offseason and thus want to save Simmons for that potential sign-and-trade rather than take what’s available on the current market.

Unless Philadelphia is blown away at the deadline by a team that significantly improves its current best offer, in other words, the standstill between Simmons and the Sixers will continue past the deadline. There’s belief that the offers currently available would be there in the offseason too, but what may not be, if a Simmons deal is completed now, is a shot at a star like Harden.

Sacramento and Atlanta have been among the most engaged recently in talks on Simmons, sources said, but team officials with those organizations doubt the 76ers will lower the price threshold for Simmons before Feb. 10. For Simmons, the 76ers have asked the Kings for guard Tyrese Haliburton and multiple first-round picks, and asked for a package around John Collins and multiple first-round picks from the Hawks along with Atlanta taking on Tobias Harris, multiple sources tell The Athletic.

[Jamaaliver]

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[Jamaaliver]

A lineup including Simmon, Hunter, Huerter and Trae is really strong.

But we'd need to acquire some additional wing help eithger in this trade or another one.

The Atlanta Hawks have been the team most engaged with the Philadelphia 76ers in recent weeks on a Ben Simmons trade, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The two sides have discussed a framework of John Collins, Bogdan Bogdanovic and draft compensation in exchange for Simmons.

Collins is in the first year of a five-year, $125 million deal with the Hawks. Bogdanovic is in Year 2 of a four-year, $72 million deal.
Simmons hasn't played all season after requesting a trade in the offseason.

Via Shams Charania/The Athletic

RealGM Wiretap

[D21]

A lineup including Simmon, Hunter, Huerter and Trae is really strong.

But we'd need to acquire some additional wing help eithger in this trade or another one.

The Atlanta Hawks have been the team most engaged with the Philadelphia 76ers in recent weeks on a Ben Simmons trade, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic.

The two sides have discussed a framework of John Collins, Bogdan Bogdanovic and draft compensation in exchange for Simmons.

Collins is in the first year of a five-year, $125 million deal with the Hawks. Bogdanovic is in Year 2 of a four-year, $72 million deal.
Simmons hasn't played all season after requesting a trade in the offseason.

Via Shams Charania/The Athletic

RealGM Wiretap

It's not that I would against this trade, but Simmons won't cover the loss of Bogi. Bogi is creating for other players lately, he finds everybody, and he's not afraid of taking bog shots in the 4th. Who will do that ?
Yes Simmons can create for other, but Bogi can easy do that because he's himself a threat on the 3pts line, so it's spreading more the floor before he attack the paint, they are not waiting for him in the paint.
Simmons will be better than him on transition for sure, but on other points, it's not sure.

The loss created, added to the loss of John, makes me think that there should not be any picks in this trade.
We would already helping PHI being better as they would just add two good players to their roster, while ATL would get one and loss two. And loosing picks with that ? No, and no

[Jamaaliver]

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