Hawks Front Office seems committed to getting Siakam

[Jamaaliver]

My takes, summed up nicely:

This is an absurd take... so you would be willing to lose CC and Hunter for 1 not good season of Siakam and then let him walk

I believe both players can be readily replaced...by younger, cheaper options already on the roster.

It's a gamble, but we'd still have flexibility and options next summer if worst comes to worst.

[WuTang_OG]

It might be time to move on from PS.

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Yikes.

Lol. look at the username

[Jamaaliver]

Atlanta has been heavily linked to Toronto Raptors star Pascal Siakam but traction has been hard to come by despite multiple packages being discussed, and the threat of other suitors always looms large. But the Hawks may have just given themselves a leg up on the competition.

“The Raptors have lost another long-time member of the support staff,” wrote Doug Smith of the Toronto Star on July 13. “Ray Chow, the massage therapist who has been with the team since its inception, is off to work for the Atlanta Hawks, team sources said. He was particularly close to Siakam.”

Atlanta has yet to announce any further hirings since revamping Quin Snyder‘s coaching staff, but this could be the most substantial sign yet that they plan to pursue the Raptors star.

Soaring Down South

[RoyceDa59]

Raps fan here.

I do think there’s a pretty good fit here for both teams.

In particular, of all the allstars to pair up with Siakam, I think him and Trae + Murray is a great fit.

The nice think about Siakam game is it strong all round, and it’s actually much better suited playing off another lead all star. His effectiveness and impact goes way up when he’s not lead ball handler. He brings championship experience and at 29, I think he has 5+ elite years left in the tank based on his play style.

That said, he’s going to be expensive and he needs to keep working on his outside shot.

A core of Trae (24), Murray(27) and Siakam(29) with good supporting cast puts you into fridge contender territory as soon as this season (with room for growth over the coming years). Good place to be and better than our situation.

While some Raps fans think we’re gonna get everything including the kitchen sink, some of us are more realistic.

For a deal to go down, Raps are more interested in young players than draft picks as we’re ready to build around Scottie/OG now.

So some of the young guys (AJ, Bufkin, OO) would need to be included. Is that something your fan base would be willing to give up? 2 of those 3 but with little draft compensation and a salary filler contract?

[Jamaaliver]

Raps fan here.

I do think there’s a pretty good fit here for both teams.


While some Raps fans think we’re gonna get everything including the kitchen sink, some of us are more realistic.

For a deal to go down, Raps are more interested in young players than draft picks as we’re ready to build around Scottie/OG now.

So some of the young guys (AJ, Bufkin, OO) would need to be included. Is that something your fan base would be willing to give up? 2 of those 3 but with little draft compensation and a salary filler contract?

Ideally we'd keep Okongwu, but word is he is the most coveted Hawk player currently.

If we trade for a 29 year old Siakam, that's a move to compete now, so moving Bufkin and AJ Griffin in exchange (as unpopular as that might be) makes sense from a strategic point.

Potential roster issue: Capela and Siakam aren't great fits because of the lack of outside shooting between them. But Okongwu and Siakam are each 6'9" - leaving us with a tough, but undersized frontcourt in a conference with BAM, Giannis, Embiid, Vucevic, Paolo, Julius.

We'd need a 7 footer as backup Center, ideally with some range on his jumper.

[dms269]

Raps fan here.

I do think there’s a pretty good fit here for both teams.

In particular, of all the allstars to pair up with Siakam, I think him and Trae + Murray is a great fit.

The nice think about Siakam game is it strong all round, and it’s actually much better suited playing off another lead all star. His effectiveness and impact goes way up when he’s not lead ball handler. He brings championship experience and at 29, I think he has 5+ elite years left in the tank based on his play style.

That said, he’s going to be expensive and he needs to keep working on his outside shot.

A core of Trae (24), Murray(27) and Siakam(29) with good supporting cast puts you into fridge contender territory as soon as this season (with room for growth over the coming years). Good place to be and better than our situation.

While some Raps fans think we’re gonna get everything including the kitchen sink, some of us are more realistic.

For a deal to go down, Raps are more interested in young players than draft picks as we’re ready to build around Scottie/OG now.

So some of the young guys (AJ, Bufkin, OO) would need to be included. Is that something your fan base would be willing to give up? 2 of those 3 but with little draft compensation and a salary filler contract?

Unfortunately I believe the Raptors front office is figuring out that Siakam doesn't have the value they are hoping he does. He is a rental for most teams and is not a guarantee to sign long-term. He wants to stay in Toronto to get a a payday. I don't believe Toronto will net multiple young pieces and picks for him.

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[jayu70]

.

That said, he’s going to be expensive and he needs to keep working on his outside shot.

A core of Trae (24), Murray(27) and Siakam(29) with good supporting cast puts you into fridge contender territory as soon as this season (with room for growth over the coming years). Good place to be and better than our situation.

While some Raps fans think we’re gonna get everything including the kitchen sink, some of us are more realistic.

For a deal to go down, Raps are more interested in young players than draft picks as we’re ready to build around Scottie/OG now.

So some of the young guys (AJ, Bufkin, OO) would need to be included. Is that something your fan base would be willing to give up? 2 of those 3 but with little draft compensation and a salary filler contract?

Rundown:
At the start of the offseason, the Hawks rumors were they were looking to moved vets (Hunter, Collins and Capeka) plus the #15 pick to upgrade the backcourt.
Capela - specifically would be moved to give OO the chance to start and take advantage of his versatility on offense and defense. I don't think that has changed.
Collins - moved for capspace
Hunter - looking to be moved to find more playing time for AJ.

Depending on Siakam's willingness to resign or not is a big deal. Hawks aren't going to give up much assests for a 1 year rental, it just doesn't make much sense. Hawks won't and shouldn't risk 2 youmg players plus picks then have Siakam leave particularly when you consider the Hawks owe their 2025 and 2027 1sts to SAS.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Unless Landry is looking at possible ways to get Siakam without giving up much(which no deal seems to suggest we haven't thrown a ton of value in the offer), then I just don't see a reason to pursue Siakam. Sure we get an upgrade at the 4 we have needed for years, but as much as folks suggest we need shooting around Trae, Siakam just doesn't cut it as a shooter when you got Murray as streaky as he is.

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae.

Possibility of him leaving complicates it even more. When Toronto went after Kawhi, i'm not sure if it was known he would actually leave, but it was well worth it considering Kawhi was who he was at the time. Kawhi was a player you risk leaving in hopes that you can convince him to stay. Siakam is not.

Like Siakam is a great 3rd fiddle if the main guy(s) don't need shooting around and simply a well rounded player, but for us, we need shooting and someone that could probably drop Murray down in the pecking order. Adding Siakam just feels like we're shooting for the least likely contender to win.

[MessiahUjiri]

Unless Landry is looking at possible ways to get Siakam without giving up much(which no deal seems to suggest we haven't thrown a ton of value in the offer), then I just don't see a reason to pursue Siakam. Sure we get an upgrade at the 4 we have needed for years, but as much as folks suggest we need shooting around Trae, Siakam just doesn't cut it as a shooter when you got Murray as streaky as he is.

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae.

Possibility of him leaving complicates it even more. When Toronto went after Kawhi, i'm not sure if it was known he would actually leave, but it was well worth it considering Kawhi was who he was at the time. Kawhi was a player you risk leaving in hopes that you can convince him to stay. Siakam is not.

Like Siakam is a great 3rd fiddle if the main guy(s) don't need shooting around and simply a well rounded player, but for us, we need shooting and someone that could probably drop Murray down in the pecking order. Adding Siakam just feels like we're shooting for the least likely contender to win.

Siakam may not be a lights out sniper, but he’s actually above average on 3s and teams can’t leave him open.

Consider this: Other than Siakam’s first 2 years when he was a nobody, he’s shot about 34% from 3.

He’s also absolutely *elite* at driving with the ball from the 4 spot, and is probably one of the top passers and finishers at the 4 position.

Siakam and Trae are the same level of stars (ie All Stars bordering on All NBA). Questioning his talent or fit is not being honest. IMO the only questions are about the asking price.

[D21]

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae...

I said it already, Siakam had more impact when he was playing with C shooting 3s, which is not the case of Poeltl, and is not the case with Capela, and we don't know about Okongwu at this moment. So it's not a perfect fit in the frontcourt without a new C

And Murray is already not the best fit with Trae because Trae has the ball in his hands, and it would be better to have a guy who catch and shoot mainly on his sides, even if he can't compete with Murray on handling the ball.

[Jamaaliver]

Siakam and Trae are the same level of stars (ie All Stars bordering on All NBA). Questioning his talent or fit is not being honest. IMO the only questions are about the asking price.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Unless Landry is looking at possible ways to get Siakam without giving up much(which no deal seems to suggest we haven't thrown a ton of value in the offer), then I just don't see a reason to pursue Siakam. Sure we get an upgrade at the 4 we have needed for years, but as much as folks suggest we need shooting around Trae, Siakam just doesn't cut it as a shooter when you got Murray as streaky as he is.

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae.

Possibility of him leaving complicates it even more. When Toronto went after Kawhi, i'm not sure if it was known he would actually leave, but it was well worth it considering Kawhi was who he was at the time. Kawhi was a player you risk leaving in hopes that you can convince him to stay. Siakam is not.

Like Siakam is a great 3rd fiddle if the main guy(s) don't need shooting around and simply a well rounded player, but for us, we need shooting and someone that could probably drop Murray down in the pecking order. Adding Siakam just feels like we're shooting for the least likely contender to win.

Siakam may not be a lights out sniper, but he’s actually above average on 3s and teams can’t leave him open.

Consider this: Other than Siakam’s first 2 years when he was a nobody, he’s shot about 34% from 3.

He’s also absolutely *elite* at driving with the ball from the 4 spot, and is probably one of the top passers and finishers at the 4 position.

Siakam and Trae are the same level of stars (ie All Stars bordering on All NBA). Questioning his talent or fit is not being honest. IMO the only questions are about the asking price.

34% is not what is considered above average. League average was slightly above 37% if i'm not mistaken. TS% was also below the league average of 58%. So it's not like he's gotta be a sniper, but he's not even average as a shooter.

Can he knock down a few three's here and there? Yeah he can. Unfortunately we need it to be more often than what he produces.

"Elite" is a bit of a stretch. He's capable, but again, no one is really afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands. For perspective, Scottie Barnes has a much lower USG%, yet he's not far off from Siakam in AST%. So how much is it Siakam making plays vs Siakam just having the ball in his hand as the primary option?

And if he's on the same level as Trae, then Toronto surely shouldn't want to trade him then if Siakam wants to be in Toronto. Bag or no bag, you keep those players on your team. Nobody isn't questioning Siakam's talent. As i've stated before, Siakam is well rounded. That's not a knock on him. That's just what he is. Well rounded doesn't mean you fit perfectly within another teams roster construction either. Especially when you lack the #1 skill that's mostly needed.

[Geaux_Hawks]

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae...

I said it already, Siakam had more impact when he was playing with C shooting 3s, which is not the case of Poeltl, and is not the case with Capela, and we don't know about Okongwu at this moment. So it's not a perfect fit in the frontcourt without a new C

And Murray is already not the best fit with Trae because Trae has the ball in his hands, and it would be better to have a guy who catch and shoot mainly on his sides, even if he can't compete with Murray on handling the ball.

It's not even about having a C that can shoot 3's. We just simply lack elite 3 point shooting in the starting lineup in general. Hunter's shaky. DJM is streaky. Trae tanks his % with logo 3's. OO/CC are practically non-factors. I mean the report of trading Hunter so AJ can get more playing time seems to align with us wanting more shooting between Bey/AJ at the 3.

Murray's not the prototypical fit, but he does give us some versatility in roster construction/rotations and a secondary playmaker. That's something we needed besides a versatile frontcourt player.

[D21]

The fit gets even more iffy when you consider Trae will still be the lead ball handler, and Murray obviously will get his fair share as well. Maybe not like the Nate days, since Quin was already looking to get Trae off the ball more, but Siakam isn't some advanced playmaker. He can make the right pass, and draw some attention, but I don't think anyone is afraid of Siakam with the ball in his hands compared to Trae...

I said it already, Siakam had more impact when he was playing with C shooting 3s, which is not the case of Poeltl, and is not the case with Capela, and we don't know about Okongwu at this moment. So it's not a perfect fit in the frontcourt without a new C

And Murray is already not the best fit with Trae because Trae has the ball in his hands, and it would be better to have a guy who catch and shoot mainly on his sides, even if he can't compete with Murray on handling the ball.

It's not even about having a C that can shoot 3's. We just simply lack elite 3 point shooting in the starting lineup in general. Hunter's shaky. DJM is streaky. Trae tanks his % with logo 3's. OO/CC are practically non-factors. I mean the report of trading Hunter so AJ can get more playing time seems to align with us wanting more shooting between Bey/AJ at the 3.

Murray's not the prototypical fit, but he does give us some versatility in roster construction/rotations and a secondary playmaker. That's something we needed besides a versatile frontcourt player.

I agree, but if we have enough shooters around, it would be an improvement, but I would still prefer to have one of our two Cs able to shoot 3s, it would allow to adjust to any kind of opponent lineups, and having as much options as possible is what I consider one of the most important things
I see the combination of having more shooters and one C able to shoot from deep more important than having only one more All-Star level, especially if it's a PF who shoot not better than Collins was doing (I remind that Collins was getting his shot back and that he finished at more than 37% from 3pts on March+April)

This is because of this thing that, even if I'm 100% sure, I tend to prefer Siakam going to IND and ATL receiving Hield+Turner, and since IND was added to the rumor lately, it could make some sense... but I'm afraid of Fields being obsessed with having 3 All-Star level players more than anything, even if it would be the worst 3 All-Star fit of history (I'm not saying Trae+Murray+Siakam would be the worst, but he would be ready to have the worst fit as long as it's 3 All-Star)

[Geaux_Hawks]

I agree, but if we have enough shooters around, it would be an improvement, but I would still prefer to have one of our two Cs able to shoot 3s, it would allow to adjust to any kind of opponent lineups, and having as much options as possible is what I consider one of the most important things
I see the combination of having more shooters and one C able to shoot from deep more important than having only one more All-Star level, especially if it's a PF who shoot not better than Collins was doing (I remind that Collins was getting his shot back and that he finished at more than 37% from 3pts on March+April)

I agree that the need for better shooting in the starting lineup would greatly improve our current situation. My theory though, is that you don't need 5 shooters on the floor at all times. You just need at least 2 guys who can hit at a near 40% or better clip.

Ideally, that could be any combo of the starters, but if Trae is closer to 37%, then your 3 and 4 need to be those 2 guys considering Murray will likely never be that guy and there's not many 5's stretching the floor at a near 40% rate and also giving you elite rebounding and defense. For as much love as you have for Turner, he's not going anywhere, despite not being an elite rebounder. Secondly, as a soon to be jump shooting team, you need as much rebounding as possible, and this is something even GS understands to be true since their 5's have usually been cleanup guys that defend well(Bogut, Looney).

[Jamaaliver]

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[dms269]

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I am not sure what Dallas has to give up anymore to even match salaries. Holmes cost a frp to dump. Kleber is on a bad contract and Dallas fans think the world of him even though he has major injury concerns, and THJ is not needed for us and I doubt the Raptors would want him as well (nor would Dallas want to send draft capital with him).

[tbhawksfan1]

It's just not a good time for the Hawks to be trading...unless it's small like the wonderful Tyty / Garuba trade that they then totally brain farted away

Siakam is being shopped as a top 20 type player and even thouh he's expiring and doesn't want to sign they want a ransom and Hawks players are totally under-valued after two terrible seasons

Capela for bad contract/s and a late first value is just terrible. I'm really afraid that the new FO is so desperate to make THEIR deal that they will make a deal just to make a deal

[Jamaaliver]

This is pretty damning:

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[jayu70]

.

That said, he’s going to be expensive and he needs to keep working on his outside shot.

A core of Trae (24), Murray(27) and Siakam(29) with good supporting cast puts you into fridge contender territory as soon as this season (with room for growth over the coming years). Good place to be and better than our situation.

While some Raps fans think we’re gonna get everything including the kitchen sink, some of us are more realistic.

For a deal to go down, Raps are more interested in young players than draft picks as we’re ready to build around Scottie/OG now.

So some of the young guys (AJ, Bufkin, OO) would need to be included. Is that something your fan base would be willing to give up? 2 of those 3 but with little draft compensation and a salary filler contract?

Rundown:
At the start of the offseason, the Hawks rumors were they were looking to moved vets (Hunter, Collins and Capeka) plus the #15 pick to upgrade the backcourt.
Capela - specifically would be moved to give OO the chance to start and take advantage of his versatility on offense and defense. I don't think that has changed.
Collins - moved for capspace
Hunter - looking to be moved to find more playing time for AJ.
.

I still think some combination of Capela/Hunter/#15 (now Bufkin) is still in play depending on Siakam's willingness to resign.