Welcome to Virtual Boston, Juhann Begarin!

[Scoonie]

Anybody think that the Celtics may bring him over for next season? With Smart being traded, we could probably use his defense and toughness.

[zoyathedestroya]

Anybody think that the Celtics may bring him over for next season? With Smart being traded, we could probably use his defense and toughness.

Maybe he has an opt-out clause, but he just signed for 2 years I believe with a French club.

https://www.eurobasket.com/France/news/813059/Juhann-Begarin-agreed-terms-with-Nanterre

[Scoonie]

Anybody think that the Celtics may bring him over for next season? With Smart being traded, we could probably use his defense and toughness.

Maybe he has an opt-out clause, but he just signed for 2 years I believe with a French club.

https://www.eurobasket.com/France/news/813059/Juhann-Begarin-agreed-terms-with-Nanterre

Yep, I was aware of that but would think he has an affordable buy-out or opt-out clause.

[Hal14]

Anybody think that the Celtics may bring him over for next season? With Smart being traded, we could probably use his defense and toughness.

Maybe he has an opt-out clause, but he just signed for 2 years I believe with a French club.

https://www.eurobasket.com/France/news/813059/Juhann-Begarin-agreed-terms-with-Nanterre

Yep, I was aware of that but would think he has an affordable buy-out or opt-out clause.

Yeah, I'm sure he has an NBA out clause. There might be a small buyout that needs to be paid to Nanterre if we want to bring him over.

But I think it's a moot point. I highly doubt he is brought over for this season. Mainly because:

-He just hasn't developed very much in the past 2 years since we drafted him
-The shooting needs to get better. His 3 pt % is actually gotten worse in each of the past 2 seasons, since we drafted him.

I think he needs another year overseas. Maybe this new team he's joining will help him develop more. He's still young - only 20 yrs old. So maybe he has a breakout season this year, puts up some big numbers, gets that 3 pt % up to a respectable number (ideally the 34-36% range).

If that happens, we revisit this discussion next year and possibly bring him over then.

In the meantime, he could be used as a trade chip..however, given the points I made above (about why he's not coming over now), he probably has like zero trade value. So mine as well hang onto him for now and keep him stashed overseas..

[cloverleaf]

It does sound like he was told he's not coming over without a better jumper, so he reupped over there and is passing on summer league.

[captain green]

Anybody think that the Celtics may bring him over for next season? With Smart being traded, we could probably use his defense and toughness.

At this point I think Celtics are not interested they've shown no real signs and to me this is the perfect time. Don't we get 3 two ways this year?

[Shak_Celts]

trying to tell yall, it's not looking good for either joining the big club. Once you're overseas for the Celtics, you're staying. Pray they trade your rights.

[cloverleaf]

trying to tell yall, it's not looking good for either joining the big club. Once you're overseas for the Celtics, you're staying. Pray they trade your rights.

C's coaching/management has been acting like they're a reigning dynasty that doesn't have to bother with developing players for a couple of years now.

I think it's been Brad rebelling against Danny having given him too many hopeless projects--and then rookie coaches looking for the surest route to good regular season records to establish their credentials.

[shackles10]

trying to tell yall, it's not looking good for either joining the big club. Once you're overseas for the Celtics, you're staying. Pray they trade your rights.

C's coaching/management has been acting like they're a reigning dynasty that doesn't have to bother with developing players for a couple of years now.

I think it's been Brad rebelling against Danny having given him too many hopeless projects--and then rookie coaches looking for the surest route to good regular season records to establish their credentials.

I do think the development has been lacking with certain players (mainly the 2 overseas with no real discussion to bring them over or even have them be part of summer league) but I don’t think it’s arrogance by our front office. I think there’s some of Brad having to deal with it as a coach sympathetic to Ime and now Joe not wanting to have to deal with it as you mentioned, but I also think it’s tough to be a true contender and develop guys like that too. Our roster and salary slots are more valuable than a rebuilding team. Both Yam and Bergarim were Danny picks though so maybe that’s why Brad isn’t putting any public effort into either. I don’t agree with only drafting ready players, but if we’re only going to give guys like Grant much of a chance then we might as well draft guys mostly like them too.

[Hal14]

trying to tell yall, it's not looking good for either joining the big club. Once you're overseas for the Celtics, you're staying. Pray they trade your rights.

C's coaching/management has been acting like they're a reigning dynasty that doesn't have to bother with developing players for a couple of years now.

I think it's been Brad rebelling against Danny having given him too many hopeless projects--and then rookie coaches looking for the surest route to good regular season records to establish their credentials.

I do think the development has been lacking with certain players (mainly the 2 overseas with no real discussion to bring them over or even have them be part of summer league) but I don’t think it’s arrogance by our front office. I think there’s some of Brad having to deal with it as a coach sympathetic to Ime and now Joe not wanting to have to deal with it as you mentioned, but I also think it’s tough to be a true contender and develop guys like that too. Our roster and salary slots are more valuable than a rebuilding team. Both Yam and Bergarim were Danny picks though so maybe that’s why Brad isn’t putting any public effort into either. I don’t agree with only drafting ready players, but if we’re only going to give guys like Grant much of a chance then we might as well draft guys mostly like them too.

Begarin was a Brad pick.

[cloverleaf]

trying to tell yall, it's not looking good for either joining the big club. Once you're overseas for the Celtics, you're staying. Pray they trade your rights.

C's coaching/management has been acting like they're a reigning dynasty that doesn't have to bother with developing players for a couple of years now.

I think it's been Brad rebelling against Danny having given him too many hopeless projects--and then rookie coaches looking for the surest route to good regular season records to establish their credentials.

I do think the development has been lacking with certain players (mainly the 2 overseas with no real discussion to bring them over or even have them be part of summer league) but I don’t think it’s arrogance by our front office. I think there’s some of Brad having to deal with it as a coach sympathetic to Ime and now Joe not wanting to have to deal with it as you mentioned, but I also think it’s tough to be a true contender and develop guys like that too. Our roster and salary slots are more valuable than a rebuilding team. Both Yam and Bergarim were Danny picks though so maybe that’s why Brad isn’t putting any public effort into either. I don’t agree with only drafting ready players, but if we’re only going to give guys like Grant much of a chance then we might as well draft guys mostly like them too.

My sense is that the Spurs and Warriors, for example, were still developing guys while they were winning championships. Out of a roster of 15 to 17, Joe only felt comfortable playing 8 guys through the playoffs. Surely more minutes off the other half of the roster could have been served up for developmental guys during the regular season.

[shackles10]

C's coaching/management has been acting like they're a reigning dynasty that doesn't have to bother with developing players for a couple of years now.

I think it's been Brad rebelling against Danny having given him too many hopeless projects--and then rookie coaches looking for the surest route to good regular season records to establish their credentials.

I do think the development has been lacking with certain players (mainly the 2 overseas with no real discussion to bring them over or even have them be part of summer league) but I don’t think it’s arrogance by our front office. I think there’s some of Brad having to deal with it as a coach sympathetic to Ime and now Joe not wanting to have to deal with it as you mentioned, but I also think it’s tough to be a true contender and develop guys like that too. Our roster and salary slots are more valuable than a rebuilding team. Both Yam and Bergarim were Danny picks though so maybe that’s why Brad isn’t putting any public effort into either. I don’t agree with only drafting ready players, but if we’re only going to give guys like Grant much of a chance then we might as well draft guys mostly like them too.

My sense is that the Spurs and Warriors, for example, were still developing guys while they were winning championships. Out of a roster of 15 to 17, Joe only felt comfortable playing 8 guys through the playoffs. Surely more minutes off the other half of the roster could have been served up for developmental guys during the regular season.

Warriors fell into a couple of high picks bc of injuries and even then haven’t done much with those guys compared to the hope/expectation. I’d love to see us develop a few though at cheap salaries we could use to round out the roster. Grant was really good for that but is up for a new contract now, Hauser has been ok there and might provide more this season if given a leash, and PP has had his moments but overall been nothing special for where he was drafted. Bergarin and Yam have yet to get serious roster considerations and I’m not sure if they ever will (not a knock on their talents either).

[ThePigeon]

Does the Celtics offer coaching to these stash picks?
Begarin should get a shooting coach to work with at least during the summer.

Madar made huge strides under Obradovic, who is a great coach. He bulked up, played better defense and was instrumental in Partizan's championship. He was also selected as the Euroleague rising star.

If you want to develop a stash - the least you could do is offer some coaching and mentoring. Otherwise, as someone above me said, you will stay in Europe forever or wish for a trade.

[cloverleaf]

I do think the development has been lacking with certain players (mainly the 2 overseas with no real discussion to bring them over or even have them be part of summer league) but I don’t think it’s arrogance by our front office. I think there’s some of Brad having to deal with it as a coach sympathetic to Ime and now Joe not wanting to have to deal with it as you mentioned, but I also think it’s tough to be a true contender and develop guys like that too. Our roster and salary slots are more valuable than a rebuilding team. Both Yam and Bergarim were Danny picks though so maybe that’s why Brad isn’t putting any public effort into either. I don’t agree with only drafting ready players, but if we’re only going to give guys like Grant much of a chance then we might as well draft guys mostly like them too.

My sense is that the Spurs and Warriors, for example, were still developing guys while they were winning championships. Out of a roster of 15 to 17, Joe only felt comfortable playing 8 guys through the playoffs. Surely more minutes off the other half of the roster could have been served up for developmental guys during the regular season.

Warriors fell into a couple of high picks bc of injuries and even then haven’t done much with those guys compared to the hope/expectation. I’d love to see us develop a few though at cheap salaries we could use to round out the roster. Grant was really good for that but is up for a new contract now, Hauser has been ok there and might provide more this season if given a leash, and PP has had his moments but overall been nothing special for where he was drafted. Bergarin and Yam have yet to get serious roster considerations and I’m not sure if they ever will (not a knock on their talents either).

They jerked around and then gave up on Nesmith too soon. He did really well starting and playing out of position last year (mostly at PF instead of SF) for the Pacers.

[Hal14]

My sense is that the Spurs and Warriors, for example, were still developing guys while they were winning championships. Out of a roster of 15 to 17, Joe only felt comfortable playing 8 guys through the playoffs. Surely more minutes off the other half of the roster could have been served up for developmental guys during the regular season.

Warriors fell into a couple of high picks bc of injuries and even then haven’t done much with those guys compared to the hope/expectation. I’d love to see us develop a few though at cheap salaries we could use to round out the roster. Grant was really good for that but is up for a new contract now, Hauser has been ok there and might provide more this season if given a leash, and PP has had his moments but overall been nothing special for where he was drafted. Bergarin and Yam have yet to get serious roster considerations and I’m not sure if they ever will (not a knock on their talents either).

They jerked around and then gave up on Nesmith too soon. He did really well starting and playing out of position last year (mostly at PF instead of SF) for the Pacers.

Gave up on Nesmith too soon? He's a 3 pt specialist who shot 27% from 3 (and averaged 3 PPG) during his 2nd season in the league. And we were able to trade him for Brogdon. That was seen across the league as a brilliant trade.

And most experts say that we reached on taking him. He was projected to go later in the 1st round.

This mock had Maxey going 16th and Nesmith going 23rd. We could have (and should have) taken Maxey instead. Oh well.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2917825-bleacher-reports-final-2020-nba-mock-draft

People thought Nesmith was gonna be this amazing shooter, but he just had a hot shooting streak on a small sample size during COVID..

There was also some reports that came out during Nesmith's 2nd season here that he was going through some mental health issues, which likely contributed to his poor play. So you can't really fault the Celtics for not developing him well enough for that reason too.

[cloverleaf]

Warriors fell into a couple of high picks bc of injuries and even then haven’t done much with those guys compared to the hope/expectation. I’d love to see us develop a few though at cheap salaries we could use to round out the roster. Grant was really good for that but is up for a new contract now, Hauser has been ok there and might provide more this season if given a leash, and PP has had his moments but overall been nothing special for where he was drafted. Bergarin and Yam have yet to get serious roster considerations and I’m not sure if they ever will (not a knock on their talents either).

They jerked around and then gave up on Nesmith too soon. He did really well starting and playing out of position last year (mostly at PF instead of SF) for the Pacers.

Gave up on Nesmith too soon? He's a 3 pt specialist who shot 27% from 3 (and averaged 3 PPG) during his 2nd season in the league. And we were able to trade him for Brogdon. That was seen across the league as a brilliant trade.

And most experts say that we reached on taking him. He was projected to go later in the 1st round.

This mock had Maxey going 16th and Nesmith going 23rd. We could have (and should have) taken Maxey instead. Oh well.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2917825-bleacher-reports-final-2020-nba-mock-draft

Whether they should have taken him (or any other player) when they did is irrelevant. One year in and Brogdon with his contract and frequent injuries has worn out his welcome once again. And that's after not being the difference to get them as far as they got last year, let alone over the top.

Anyone who watched saw that Nesmith was jerked around as a young guy, but he shot higher this year on 3s (at .366) than JT or JB--as a 23yo. And with the C's draft pick that Indy got they drafted a player who just shot 49% from the 3 in college. Nesmith is also a more well-rounded scorer than you suggest. Even as a young guy he's a career .639 from 0-3, .442 from 10-16, .500 from 16 to 3, and, yes, .346 from 3. Nesmith's not a star, but he's a starter on another team and could be/have been a solid, cheap role player for the C's.

Theis was a good player also in that trade--though I don't know what happened to him this year!

[threrf23]

Gave up on Nesmith too soon? He's a 3 pt specialist who shot 27% from 3 (and averaged 3 PPG) during his 2nd season in the league. And we were able to trade him for Brogdon. That was seen across the league as a brilliant trade.

And most experts say that we reached on taking him. He was projected to go later in the 1st round.

This mock had Maxey going 16th and Nesmith going 23rd. We could have (and should have) taken Maxey instead. Oh well.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2917825-bleacher-reports-final-2020-nba-mock-draft

People thought Nesmith was gonna be this amazing shooter, but he just had a hot shooting streak on a small sample size during COVID..

There was also some reports that came out during Nesmith's 2nd season here that he was going through some mental health issues, which likely contributed to his poor play. So you can't really fault the Celtics for not developing him well enough for that reason too.

Brogdon was a good get, but as you sort of clarify Nesmith was never a 3 point specialist. He never established a track record of being an above average three point shooter and a single hot stretch against weak non-conference opponents proved very little.

But he was and is a gritty role player who has solid length/size/physique, plays hard, and shows upside to develop as a shooter. And he has actually shot the trey passably in two of three seasons since entering the league. I would have traded for Brogdon and ofc I would have drafted Maxey over him (at the time, I think I wanted Precious Achiuwa), but you make him sound like he is good for nothing and that's not the case. He reminds me a lot of a young Matt Barnes and he probably has better upside.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Begarin did end up being crowded out of the french roster with the return of the NBA players to the team. Ousmane Dieng is the wing that has been selected as reserve so he won't sneak in with as a last minute replacement either. Old friends Yabusele and Fournier will be there. The silver lining is that he'll get a uninterrupted summer to work on his shooting.

[cloverleaf]

Begarin did end up being crowded out of the french roster with the return of the NBA players to the team. Ousmane Dieng is the wing that has been selected as reserve so he won't sneak in with as a last minute replacement either. Old friends Yabusele and Fournier will be there. The silver lining is that he'll get a uninterrupted summer to work on his shooting.

Interesting. IMO he'd be smart to do that work over here, though that's not what I expect.

[cloverleaf]

Warriors fell into a couple of high picks bc of injuries and even then haven’t done much with those guys compared to the hope/expectation. I’d love to see us develop a few though at cheap salaries we could use to round out the roster. Grant was really good for that but is up for a new contract now, Hauser has been ok there and might provide more this season if given a leash, and PP has had his moments but overall been nothing special for where he was drafted. Bergarin and Yam have yet to get serious roster considerations and I’m not sure if they ever will (not a knock on their talents either).

They jerked around and then gave up on Nesmith too soon. He did really well starting and playing out of position last year (mostly at PF instead of SF) for the Pacers.

Gave up on Nesmith too soon? He's a 3 pt specialist who shot 27% from 3 (and averaged 3 PPG) during his 2nd season in the league. And we were able to trade him for Brogdon. That was seen across the league as a brilliant trade.

And most experts say that we reached on taking him. He was projected to go later in the 1st round.

This mock had Maxey going 16th and Nesmith going 23rd. We could have (and should have) taken Maxey instead. Oh well.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2917825-bleacher-reports-final-2020-nba-mock-draft

People thought Nesmith was gonna be this amazing shooter, but he just had a hot shooting streak on a small sample size during COVID..

There was also some reports that came out during Nesmith's 2nd season here that he was going through some mental health issues, which likely contributed to his poor play. So you can't really fault the Celtics for not developing him well enough for that reason too.

Just some more on how I don't think you see Nesmith fairly:

He actually shot .522 from 3 the 2nd of his 2 years of college and .410 for his college career.
Now, still at the tender age of 23, after 3 years in the league, he has a .346 career average (after last year's .366) from t3 and .827 on FTs. Clearly he's a good shooter--as his college career had suggested.
It was his sophomore year where an impatient Ime spooked him. He didn't get nearly the patience that Brad gave Grant when Grant started 0 for a gazillion from 3, and instead shifted Nesmith into that crazy-frenetic D mode we both remember well. I have no question but that any mental health issues for Nesmith in year 2 were Ime-induced.

We'll see what it takes for the C's to offload from Brogdon, if they can, this year, but I think having them so eager to dump his contract after just 1 year of his 3-year deal, with him having been injured and useless for their 1 postseason with them, should help you to see the value in giving up Nesmith and this year's 1st rounder for that year of Brogdon. I bet the C's would prefer to have Nesmith this year for $5M than Brogdon for $22.5M for each of this year and next.