Al Horford Thread

[Parliament10]

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[hugepatsfan]

Grant can capably fill guard all 5 positions in spurts, but there are tough matchups for him at the 5 that he just doesn't have the size to be competitive in. Horford doesn't have those matchups where he just can't handle him. Grant can run a lot of the same schemes, but it won't be the same fit overall.

Myles Turner is probably the best you get. He's mobile enough to be switched onto the perimeter, he can hold his own in the paint and he spaces the floor well enough that he makes for an offensively viable two big lineup next to RWilliams. The one area you lose out is that he's not the passer/ball mover that Horford is. Unfortunately, we don't have the near-term assets for Turner if IND even wants to move him. We'd have to offer an obscene amount of 1st rounders to even start a conversation since we don't have any near-term picks or inspiring young players to get their attention.

Wendell Carter Jr. is another guy who fits the mold. Needs to continue to extend his range, but he's often been compared to a young Horford. Issue will be price. He signed a front loaded contract with the Magic, who have a pretty clean cap sheet. They have lots of duplication on that roster at G and F, but since Bamaba hasn't developed as hoped they don't have any real need to move a center. Just doesn't feel like a guy who would be realistically attainable.

Drawing blanks on names after that, TBH. It's just a unique player to do all of what Horford does. Even in his decline, he's still a rare breed in terms of combination of skills. Ime has really built his defensive scheme to make heavy use of that, so it's going to be a challenge to replicate going forward.

[BK_2020]

Myles Turner is probably the best you get. He's mobile enough to be switched onto the perimeter, he can hold his own in the paint and he spaces the floor well enough that he makes for an offensively viable two big lineup next to RWilliams. The one area you lose out is that he's not the passer/ball mover that Horford is. Unfortunately, we don't have the near-term assets for Turner if IND even wants to move him. We'd have to offer an obscene amount of 1st rounders to even start a conversation since we don't have any near-term picks or inspiring young players to get their attention.

Indy was willing to give up Turner for a Hayward sign and trade. They also sit Turner in crunch time and don't play him more than 30 minutes per game. I don't know if your assessment of Turner's value to Indy matches Indy's assessment of Turner's value to them.

[Elrod is Back]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

[Hal14]

Grant can capably fill guard all 5 positions in spurts, but there are tough matchups for him at the 5 that he just doesn't have the size to be competitive in. Horford doesn't have those matchups where he just can't handle him. Grant can run a lot of the same schemes, but it won't be the same fit overall.

Myles Turner is probably the best you get. He's mobile enough to be switched onto the perimeter, he can hold his own in the paint and he spaces the floor well enough that he makes for an offensively viable two big lineup next to RWilliams. The one area you lose out is that he's not the passer/ball mover that Horford is. Unfortunately, we don't have the near-term assets for Turner if IND even wants to move him. We'd have to offer an obscene amount of 1st rounders to even start a conversation since we don't have any near-term picks or inspiring young players to get their attention.

Wendell Carter Jr. is another guy who fits the mold. Needs to continue to extend his range, but he's often been compared to a young Horford. Issue will be price. He signed a front loaded contract with the Magic, who have a pretty clean cap sheet. They have lots of duplication on that roster at G and F, but since Bamaba hasn't developed as hoped they don't have any real need to move a center. Just doesn't feel like a guy who would be realistically attainable.

Drawing blanks on names after that, TBH. It's just a unique player to do all of what Horford does. Even in his decline, he's still a rare breed in terms of combination of skills. Ime has really built his defensive scheme to make heavy use of that, so it's going to be a challenge to replicate going forward.

Turner makes no sense here. Indy had 2 bigs (turner and sabonis) and tried for years to get rid of 1 of them. they finally did, sabonis is gone so obviously they're keeping turner. not to mention, it wouldn't make sense for us to have rob and turner here. if the pacers couldn't make it work with sabonis + turner, why would it work for us to have rob + turner? At least sabonis can shoot a little bit from 3.

Same thing with wendell carter. makes no sense to have him and rob together. carter is orlando's starting center - he's young, they're a rebuilding team, he's their center of the future. they're not getting rid of him.

this whole thread was made BEFORE we brought theis back. at the time, people thought we needed to add another center behind rob, since al was expiring in a year, grant is too small to play heavy mins at center and freedom and fernando were both also on an expiring contracts and both weren't getting any minutes so clearly Udoka didn't want to play either of them.

well guess what, things have changed. we have theis and he has a couple more years left on his contract. this gives us some options. clearly rob is the long term starting center. al is the veteran who's contract is expiring in a year who can play alongside rob or be the only big out there at times. now we have theis - a veteran with a couple years left on his deal, can play alongside rob or you can have him out there as the only big. problem solved.

i think you just keep rolling with rob, al, theis and grant for now. maybe a year from now make some changes as necessary..

[darrendaye]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

In his last 2 stops, Hartenstein is a guy I had on my list of interesting backup big options. Honestly did not figure him to be a strong defensive player. I remember his draft profile. I don't know that he's quite as interesting at a salary level you're suggesting, but, if he's truly a plus defender, then I'd sign up for it.

[Hal14]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

So you want to give the full non-taxpayer MLE to a 4th string center? Or you somehow think he's going to leapfrog over rob, al or theis in the rotation?

If he's that good, why wouldn't the clippers resign him? the only other center they have is Zubac. We have rob, al and theis..

[patman66]

Dieng, is the guy I hope they go after.

[bfchs123]

Find a way to get John Collins (probably with Smart).

PG White
SG Brown
SF Tatum
PF Collins
C RWIII

Or get Beal and just push Tatum more into the PF slot (with RWIII/Theis/Grant taking up the remaining PF/C minutes)

PG Smart/White
SG Beal
SF Brown
PF Tatum
C RWIII

Turner doesn't seem like the right fit (and as others pointed out he probably is unlikely to be moved now). He sort of spaces the floor with his three but not enough to have him and RWIII out there at the same time

[Smart2Nesmith43]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

In his last 2 stops, Hartenstein is a guy I had on my list of interesting backup big options. Honestly did not figure him to be a strong defensive player. I remember his draft profile. I don't know that he's quite as interesting at a salary level you're suggesting, but, if he's truly a plus defender, then I'd sign up for it.

Hartenstein is the league leader in defensive rating per nba.com (only rotation guy below 100) and 8th in net rating. Tied with Mobley for lowest field percentage allowed in the restricted area (among guys that actually play). Contests nearly 9 shots (including 2 three pointers so can step out to the perimeter a little) in only 16 minutes of action every night when elite defenders are at 11-14 a game in twice the minutes. Per cleaning the glass, the Clippers defense is 12 points/100 possession better with him on the floor (second best mark among rotation players). The stats certainly paint him as a (huge) plus on that end.

I don't watch the Clippers so I don't actually know why he doesn't play more. If someone has more info I'd love to read it.

[Homerclease]

Trade for Christian Wood

[Andrew McCeltic]

I wrote a long post about this somewhere.. you can always move Tatum to the 4, but that takes away the advantage you get with his switchability.. having Rob "roam" means you could play a slower-footed big next to Rob, too.. (Towns).

Hartenstein with the taxpayer MLE, Jalen Smith with the taxpayer MLE (IND keeps him) or a flyer on Bamba.. Zeke Nnaji or Jaden McDaniels by trade.. maybe Jonathan Isaac, depending on what happens with him, Orlando, and our salary structure.. maybe Kyle Anderson as a 3/4 who can back up Tatum and Grant.. they've always been linked to Harrison Barnes, who could start at one forward spot next to Tatum if they go a little smaller.. Don't know what's up with Brooklyn and Nic Claxton.

That's assuming you want to keep the elite defense. Otherwise John Collins is an obvious target..

At some point Anthony Davis could be available, but he's lost a lot of his shine. He'd help on both sides of the ball.. Derrick Favors could be a decent TPE target (only like 9 million in salary), especially if they waive/stretch Horford or want another body to draw down his minutes..

[jumblin]

With Jayson Tatum having firmly established himself as a top 2 player in the NBA, I don't think we need to worry about the supporting cast. Tatum is a big enough magnet that all-NBA players will be taking discounts to come to boston to play with him. I could easily see a roster so loaded next year that LeBron will be coming off the bench as a 6th or even 7th man.

[Hal14]

With Jayson Tatum having firmly established himself as a top 2 player in the NBA, I don't think we need to worry about the supporting cast. Tatum is a big enough magnet that all-NBA players will be taking discounts to come to boston to play with him. I could easily see a roster so loaded next year that LeBron will be coming off the bench as a 6th or even 7th man.

stick to baseball

[Garbanzo]

I think Grant has proven his shot making is legit. Add that to his defensive versatility and you have the perfect player between Tatum and Williams in the starting lineup.
Horford has looked good defensively this year but offensively he has brought nothing. His shooting numbers are poor and he hasnt initiated offense like he did before and like i expected. Hes more productive than Kemba so im not complaining, but i think id prefer to see him coming off the bench as a 4/5.
We threw a good amount of money at Rob Williams so i guess hes the future, youll have to pay Grant soon enough so hopefully the answer to your question is inhouse.

I like Grant Williams but if Grant Williams is in your starting lineup then your team is going nowhere. Grant Williams is a limited bench player.

He's on track to be the next PJ Tucker / Jae Crowder type. They were the 2 starting PF's in the NBA finals this past year. Both of them have been starters for quite some time now.

I'm not ready to say Grant should be a full time starter right now at this second - I think you keep bringing him off the bench this season but if he keeps improving, he could earn the starting PF spot at some point next season - and he's already under contract for next season anyways..

If Grant is giving you good, tough, switchable defense. Doing the little things, playing hard, setting screens, hitting 40% from 3 and hovering around 10 PPG (he's currently at 12.2 PPG per 36 mins this season), then that's a damn solid 5th starter.

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

[Elrod is Back]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

So you want to give the full non-taxpayer MLE to a 4th string center? Or you somehow think he's going to leapfrog over rob, al or theis in the rotation?

If he's that good, why wouldn't the clippers resign him? the only other center they have is Zubac. We have rob, al and theis..

I explain the Clippers predicament in the post. Their hands are tied.

I think other teams will be interested. The price could rise and it is no lock he would come to the Cs. We'd have to recruit him.

[Hal14]

I like Grant Williams but if Grant Williams is in your starting lineup then your team is going nowhere. Grant Williams is a limited bench player.

He's on track to be the next PJ Tucker / Jae Crowder type. They were the 2 starting PF's in the NBA finals this past year. Both of them have been starters for quite some time now.

I'm not ready to say Grant should be a full time starter right now at this second - I think you keep bringing him off the bench this season but if he keeps improving, he could earn the starting PF spot at some point next season - and he's already under contract for next season anyways..

If Grant is giving you good, tough, switchable defense. Doing the little things, playing hard, setting screens, hitting 40% from 3 and hovering around 10 PPG (he's currently at 12.2 PPG per 36 mins this season), then that's a damn solid 5th starter.

Crowder is a nice comp.
Tucker could do things Grant will probably never will, like bringing up the ball in transition.

Grant is a smart guy, maybe he'll learn to do something else, Crowder and Tucker can't.

Anyway, there's no point starting Grant at the 4 if we have Tatum.
Grant is very useful as a backup.

you mean like this?

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[Hal14]

The best move in my opinion would be to sign Isaiah Hartenstein to a contract this summer when he will be a UFA. LAC does nor have any Bird rights or early Bird rights and they are hammered by the repeater tax.

I suspect the Cs might have to offer as much as the full non-taxpaper MLE to get him, and that would mean waiving and extending Horford to guarantee we stay under the cap in 22-23. It might be worth it.

If you are unfamiliar with Hartenstein check him out. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

Huge, mobile and only 23 years old, and is battle tested after four NBA seasons. A plus defender and a plus rebounder and outstanding passer. Gets to the line as well. He would be a fine complement to Robert Williams and fit into the big rotation.

So you want to give the full non-taxpayer MLE to a 4th string center? Or you somehow think he's going to leapfrog over rob, al or theis in the rotation?

If he's that good, why wouldn't the clippers resign him? the only other center they have is Zubac. We have rob, al and theis..

I explain the Clippers predicament in the post. Their hands are tied.

I think other teams will be interested. The price could rise and it is no lock he would come to the Cs. We'd have to recruit him.

why would we recruit him to be our 4th string center? he ain't getting minutes over rob, al or theis..

[darrendaye]

So you want to give the full non-taxpayer MLE to a 4th string center? Or you somehow think he's going to leapfrog over rob, al or theis in the rotation?

If he's that good, why wouldn't the clippers resign him? the only other center they have is Zubac. We have rob, al and theis..

I explain the Clippers predicament in the post. Their hands are tied.

I think other teams will be interested. The price could rise and it is no lock he would come to the Cs. We'd have to recruit him.

why would we recruit him to be our 4th string center? he ain't getting minutes over rob, al or theis..

If they move on from Horford, this is a legit conversation.

[31to6]

Rob, Grant, Tatum, Theis
I agree we'll need someone in the pipeline, but I doubt there's a plan/solution to this yet. Will need some luck.