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2024 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1121 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Tue May 7, 2024 10:25 pm

Hal14 wrote:I work a full time job. I don't have time to go through all 210 2nd round picks :)

49 is a large enough sample size. It's not cherry picked. If it was, I wouldn't have included guys like Naz Reid and Carsen Edwards who go against the point I am trying to make.

Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative. I used to think young upside projects were the way to go in the 2nd round but the data is not supporting that.

49 wouldn't be a large enough sample even if you picked the guys randomly out of the bigger player pool which you clearly didn't as evidenced. Especially since you then have to slice up your smple in to smaller groups (teenagers/older players).

I'm not going to comb through every draft but let's look at those you selected for which we have enough distance to see who developed into a real NBA player and who didn't so 2016 to 2019. For full transparency, my list of winning players drafted during those seasons:

Spoiler:
2016
Ivica Zubac *
Malcolm Brogdon
Georges Niang

2017
Isaiah Hartenstein *
Dillon Brooks
Monte Morris
I'm probably being unfair to Thomas Bryant here but I've never seen him as a winning player and he would actually be in the teenager group so I'm not exactly helping my case by rejecting him

2018
Jalen Brunson
Mitchell Robinson (20.2)
Gary Trent Jr. *
Jarred Vanderbilt *
Bruce Brown
De'Anthony Melton (20.1)
Same as Bryant, I don't have Devonte' Graham as a guy that impacts winning but I don't have any quibbles if somebody wants to include him as he clearly outperformed your standard 2nd round pick.

2019
Nic Claxton (20.2)
Daniel Gafford
Terance Mann


So it's 4/21 (19%) of teenagers picked in the second round that become positive contributors in the NBA (at least in the sample observed) and 11/99 (11%) for all the other players. Three of those 11 guys barely missed the age cut off and would have skewed things even further in favor of the teenager group. Not a big enough sample to draw definitive conclusions but certainly nothing that would suggest that older guys are safer in the second round.

Stevens saying they are looking at guys older than Springer doesn't mean anything when most prospects available when the Celtics pick are in that age range. They are just doing their due diligence.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1122 » by Hal14 » Wed May 8, 2024 3:24 am

You say that my 49 player sample size isn't big enough, so you post a list of 15 guys lol.

I posted this research on Twitter. Just over 1,000 views, 12 likes, a bunch of comments and nobody who gave this much push back or tried so hard to poke holes in it..although I did expand the sample size to 62 players when I posted it on Twitter:

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1123 » by redslastlaugh » Wed May 8, 2024 10:52 pm

Here’s some idle speculation:

I wonder if Memphis will be interested in trading up to #30 since they seem to really like the value proposition of the lowest rookie scale salary. I’ve heard Chris Vernon (Grizzlies media guy) say the #30 is the best contract in basketball if you hit the on the pick you get the player for four years at $2m a year or whatever. And Mem traded up into the 30 slot for Desmond bane and then did it again for Santi Aldama.

This year they pick at #39 and again at #57. They have future draft assets and we’ve done deals with them 3 times in the past few yrs including that Desmond Bane pick.

Keep an eye on Memphis as a team to take interest in the #30 pick if Brad decides to move it.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1124 » by brackdan70 » Thu May 9, 2024 3:55 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:Here’s some idle speculation:

I wonder if Memphis will be interested in trading up to #30 since they seem to really like the value proposition of the lowest rookie scale salary. I’ve heard Chris Vernon (Grizzlies media guy) say the #30 is the best contract in basketball if you hit the on the pick you get the player for four years at $2m a year or whatever. And Mem traded up into the 30 slot for Desmond bane and then did it again for Santi Aldama.

This year they pick at #39 and again at #57. They have future draft assets and we’ve done deals with them 3 times in the past few yrs including that Desmond Bane pick.

Keep an eye on Memphis as a team to take interest in the #30 pick if Brad decides to move it.

Yeah I like that. 30 for 39 and a future unprotected second.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1125 » by 165bows » Thu May 9, 2024 10:06 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:Here’s some idle speculation:

I wonder if Memphis will be interested in trading up to #30 since they seem to really like the value proposition of the lowest rookie scale salary. I’ve heard Chris Vernon (Grizzlies media guy) say the #30 is the best contract in basketball if you hit the on the pick you get the player for four years at $2m a year or whatever. And Mem traded up into the 30 slot for Desmond bane and then did it again for Santi Aldama.

This year they pick at #39 and again at #57. They have future draft assets and we’ve done deals with them 3 times in the past few yrs including that Desmond Bane pick.

Keep an eye on Memphis as a team to take interest in the #30 pick if Brad decides to move it.

Yeah I like that. 30 for 39 and a future unprotected second.

It's a hair light imo but they are probably taking the same guy at 39 or wherever that they would have at 30. So in that light it makes sense.

At one point I made a short list of the likely trade partners for this type of trade but I would have to look pretty hard for it now lol.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1126 » by Dogen » Fri May 10, 2024 8:12 pm

165bows wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:Here’s some idle speculation:

I wonder if Memphis will be interested in trading up to #30 since they seem to really like the value proposition of the lowest rookie scale salary. I’ve heard Chris Vernon (Grizzlies media guy) say the #30 is the best contract in basketball if you hit the on the pick you get the player for four years at $2m a year or whatever. And Mem traded up into the 30 slot for Desmond bane and then did it again for Santi Aldama.

This year they pick at #39 and again at #57. They have future draft assets and we’ve done deals with them 3 times in the past few yrs including that Desmond Bane pick.

Keep an eye on Memphis as a team to take interest in the #30 pick if Brad decides to move it.

Yeah I like that. 30 for 39 and a future unprotected second.

It's a hair light imo but they are probably taking the same guy at 39 or wherever that they would have at 30. So in that light it makes sense.

At one point I made a short list of the likely trade partners for this type of trade but I would have to look pretty hard for it now lol.


For a team like Memphis that is somewhat back at the drawing board, yeah, I can see them wanting to get a four year contract by moving into the first round. I'd hate to miss put on the next Bane though.

If the Celtics find a solid 22yo upperclassman that can step in and fill a need at wing or maybe backup big insurance (Oso Ighodaro, for example), maybe Brad takes that pick. Unlikely though. Otherwise trading back into 2nd and getting a future 2nd fits Brad's M.O. Then at 39 maybe there is a guy like Chomche that can take the Queta 2-Way and develop in Maine.

Edit: Of course, a guy like Oso Ighodaro could also be available at 39, so it's really a matter of what is happening during the actual draft. Since Brad tends to trade down instead of up, he'll need to be really high on a player to make a move. Last year, I wanted the Celtics to move up for Jaquez, but we don't know if an offer was made. What we do know is that Jaquez has three years on Walsh, and is NBA ready. Generally, it seems Brad prefers to trade for guys with a few years of NBA under the belt (Springer/Tillman) while keeping a pipeline of young 2nd rounders/undrafted in Maine. Not a bad strategy, but if the "next Jaquez" is available near the end of the first round, I'd like to see a trade up. Jaime would have fit the bench crew of Al, Sam and Payton to a T.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1127 » by 165bows » Sat May 11, 2024 1:08 am

Nice write up about Anton Watson of Gonzaga. Another four I could see the team being interested in.

Watson has always been a jittery, athletic bundle of controlled chaos as a player. He’s a menace on both ends of the court and is keen to fill the holes in a lineup that would otherwise tank its effectiveness. Offensively, Watson does most of his damage around the rim with savage dunks and slick finishes, although his passing and shooting have slowly improved. Defensively, Watson has the rare trio of length, strength, and foot speed to seamlessly switch, fight through screens, and harry opponents wherever they are on the floor.

Across five years with Gonzaga, Watson showed steady improvement in all facets of his game. He missed the back half of his freshman campaign with a shoulder injury, but since then, Watson has progressed from a key bench player to starting all the games in his senior and fifth year with the Zags. In his last year with the Zags, he finally stepped into a spotlight role and was rightfully named to the All-WCC First Team.

Each year he played, Watson improved at a different skill to round out his game. As a freshman, he averaged just 4.9 points a game; as a senior, Watson averaged 14.5 points per game. He was also remarkably efficient, shooting 60.7% on two-pointers and 41.2% on his threes, although his deep shots were on limited volume.

Alongside his scoring improvements, Watson’s assists per game steadily rose in each of his years while his turnover percentage went down simultaneously. Conversely, Watson never had less than a 2.8% steal percentage and a 1.8% block percentage. That speaks to his rangy ability to impact the game on the defensive end, even though the film tells the whole story.


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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1128 » by 165bows » Sat May 11, 2024 1:24 am

Was on a Pelle Larson kick at one point earlier in the year. Can’t remember if I made this comparison then but he’s sort of a Malcolm Brogdon-y sort of player, without the weird vibe afaik.

Watching the playoffs over the past several years, it’s become increasingly evident that teams are working diligently to key on the discernable weaknesses of their opponents. Non-shooters get ignored. Shooters who can’t dribble and/or finish get run off the line. Smaller players get bullied. Lumbering bigs are forced to guard in space. A well-rounded skill set has never been more important.

Given that, it’s hard not to reconsider the stock of Arizona’s Pelle Larsson. The senior wing out of Arizona has always done a little bit of everything. Watching the tape, he finds a variety of ways to keep defenses off balance. He’s effective in important areas on the court and he makes good decisions. Defensively, his strength and feel help keep him above board. However, the subtle nature of his game often understates the productive funk that he brings to the table. Today, we’re going to give Pelle Larsson some NBA Draft love, because there’s a real chance that his wide-ranging skill set allows him to climb during the pre-draft process.

Keeping Them Honest

One of the easiest ways for a wing to stay on the floor offensively is to space the floor, and Pelle Larsson can do that. He made 42.6% of his threes this past season and 39.7% of his threes over the course of his four-year college career. His right-handed stroke looks repeatable time after time. He’s also shown a bit of variety as far as how he can get into his shot. He knows how to relocate into defensive holes, he can move into his shot off screens or in transition, and he’s comfortable pulling up when given space (44.0% on 25 off-the-dribble threes this past season). His mechanics, consistency, and productivity allow him to draw hard closeouts.

My one gripe with Larsson here is that I wish he were a bit more assertive with his shot. He only took 5.4 threes per 100 possessions this season, and I can’t think of a better shooter who took that few. He can be a little too passive and a little too slow going into his motion, and he’ll want to clean that up during the pre-draft process. Still, opponents respect Larsson because they know he’s a knockdown guy when he pulls the trigger. It’s also tough to blame Larsson for wanting to go inside, because he’s one heck of a downhill player, too.

Making Them Pay

If opponents aren’t careful when they close out on Pelle Larsson, he will make them pay. One tool at his disposal is his excellent pump fake. He’s able to bring it really high and get opponents to bite on it before starting his attack. From there, Larsson’s first step does him a lot of favors. While he’s not the twitchiest athlete in many respects, he’s actually very good at exploding out of a complete standstill into his drive. Once he gets going, his strength makes it difficult to knock off his line. At the rim, Larsson can show some bounce off one foot or convert using his touch. In particular, he has a unique gift when it comes to arcing the ball over the top of big rim protectors near the cup. Even better, contact doesn’t bother him one bit. He remains coordinated even when someone bumps into him in mid-air.

Larsson’s jolty stop-start first step, power, and touch enable him to put a lot of pressure on the rim relative to his position. This year, 36.6% of his halfcourt shots came at the basket, and he made an impressive 57% of them. My one knit to pick is that I wish he was more willing to go to his left hand at the cup. Even still, he’s effective. While he’s sometimes mistakenly classified as a shooter, Larsson is a real deal rim pressure guy. Arizona’s coaching staff recognized this, often utilizing him as a screener who they would short-roll. Better yet, Larsson is an excellent passer on his way to the rim.

Pelle Larsson’s head is always up. He knows how to take his time, play methodically, and find openings when operating out of a ball screen. He recognizes his own gravity as a driver and will spray it out to open shooters if a perimeter defender abandons their assignment. Going downhill, he does a great job of reading the last level of the defense. When the rim protector comes out too far, Larsson is always ready to dump it to his big man in the dunker spot. If his big man gets behind their defender as a roller, he’ll throw him an accurate lob. His pass placement is typically on point. When he’s spotting up, he’ll routinely make sharp extra passes. My favorite element of his distribution, though, is that he does a tremendous job of looking off his dishes. That extra layer of trickery further misshapes defenses and makes the rotations even more difficult. Larsson ended the year with a 20.1 AST% while averaging 3.7 APG to only 1.9 TOV.

In totality, Larsson has an incredibly intriguing offensive profile. Playoff performers need to be able to dribble, pass, and shoot. Larsson can do all of that. I ran a BartTorvik on wing-sized players from high-major conferences who scored, shot threes, and distributed the ball at a level similar to Larsson over the past 10 years. The results were rather encouraging.

Showing No Weakness

Larsson’s well-rounded productivity insulates him on the offensive end. Still, come playoff time, NBA teams are looking to sniff out any weakness possible. I have some concerns with Larsson on the defensive end of the floor. That said, I wouldn’t throw in the towel. Larsson has some great moments on that end of the floor, and much of it has to do with his physical strength and how well he can leverage it.

Larsson’s truly a stout defender. He plays with a level of discipline that prevents him from biting on misdirection and he does a great job of taking away the angles a player is seeking to attack. He loves to throw his chest on his opponent, and when he does, they have a hard time shaking him loose. His ability to stay vertical shows up when he helps around the basket. Smaller players like Mark Sears can find themselves swallowed up by his smothering technique and bigger dudes like Grant Nelson can still struggle to get to their spots against him. While his career 1.7 STL% and 1.1 BLK% may not fly off the page, Larsson knows what he’s doing out there. Add in his physicality and strength, and he’s able to hold his own.

He’s not without his limitations here. His feet aren’t the quickest and he has a hard time recovering when he does get shaken. Too often, he’ll be flat-footed when guarding the ball. Those are technical elements of his defensive game that will need to be fine-tuned at the next level. He’ll need to improve his lateral agility and balance. But with that being said, Larsson’s tenacity and smashmouth tactics should keep him in the game. Per Hoop-Explorer, Arizona’s defensive net rating against Top 100 teams was better when Larsson was on the floor, and his DBPM of 3.3 is no joke. He’s proven to be a capable part of a defensive system.


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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1129 » by Dogen » Sun May 12, 2024 3:15 am

165bows wrote:Nice write up about Anton Watson of Gonzaga. Another four I could see the team being interested in.

Watson has always been a jittery, athletic bundle of controlled chaos as a player. He’s a menace on both ends of the court and is keen to fill the holes in a lineup that would otherwise tank its effectiveness. Offensively, Watson does most of his damage around the rim with savage dunks and slick finishes, although his passing and shooting have slowly improved. Defensively, Watson has the rare trio of length, strength, and foot speed to seamlessly switch, fight through screens, and harry opponents wherever they are on the floor.

Across five years with Gonzaga, Watson showed steady improvement in all facets of his game. He missed the back half of his freshman campaign with a shoulder injury, but since then, Watson has progressed from a key bench player to starting all the games in his senior and fifth year with the Zags. In his last year with the Zags, he finally stepped into a spotlight role and was rightfully named to the All-WCC First Team.

Each year he played, Watson improved at a different skill to round out his game. As a freshman, he averaged just 4.9 points a game; as a senior, Watson averaged 14.5 points per game. He was also remarkably efficient, shooting 60.7% on two-pointers and 41.2% on his threes, although his deep shots were on limited volume.

Alongside his scoring improvements, Watson’s assists per game steadily rose in each of his years while his turnover percentage went down simultaneously. Conversely, Watson never had less than a 2.8% steal percentage and a 1.8% block percentage. That speaks to his rangy ability to impact the game on the defensive end, even though the film tells the whole story.


https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/anton-watson-is-this-years-skeleton


5 year player that will be 24 during the 24-25 season. Long, versatile big wing, maybe a Brandon Clarke type. I'm down with an older rookie this year, he could be a nice 2nd round pick for a team like the Celtics looking for some bench depth.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread – (Lottery = Sun, May 12, 3PM [ABC]) 

Post#1130 » by Parliament10 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:10 pm

Draft Lottery.
Saying that the Draft is up for grabs, in who will get and will be the Top Picks.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread – (Lottery = Sun, May 12, 3PM [ABC]) 

Post#1131 » by lon3lytoaster » Sun May 12, 2024 7:22 pm

Parliament10 wrote:Draft Lottery.
Saying that the Draft is up for grabs, in who will get and will be the Top Picks.


Easily one of the least inspiring top half’s of a draft i can remember.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread – (Lottery = Sun, May 12, 3PM [ABC]) 

Post#1132 » by Parliament10 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:26 pm

San Antonio & Trail Blazers have 2 Lottery Picks, each.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread – (Lottery = Sun, May 12, 3PM [ABC]) 

Post#1133 » by Parliament10 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:29 pm

Spurs get the 4th and 8th Pick. And already have Wembanyama.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread – (Lottery = Sun, May 12, 3PM [ABC]) 

Post#1134 » by Sweet Serenity » Sun May 12, 2024 7:32 pm

I don’t really follow the draft much but surely we’re getting the first 2 picks ?
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1135 » by bisme37 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:32 pm

Hawks jumped from 10th to 1st. Pistons fell from 1st to 5th. Crazy lottery this year.

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1136 » by Parliament10 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:36 pm

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1137 » by Parliament10 » Sun May 12, 2024 7:48 pm

Would either the Spurs or the Trail Blazers Trade their 2nd Rounders with the Celtics?

35 & 48 = Spurs
34 & 40 = Trail Blazers
30 & 54 = Celtics


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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1138 » by Darthlukey » Sun May 12, 2024 8:31 pm

bisme37 wrote:Hawks jumped from 10th to 1st. Pistons fell from 1st to 5th. Crazy lottery this year.

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Rockets jumped up 6 spots by way of nets too, that's an amazing result too
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1139 » by keevsnick1 » Sun May 12, 2024 8:37 pm

This was a Pure Chaos lottery. A bunch of interesting scenarios in play.

1) What will Atlanta do? With the #1 pick they could think about going full rebuild and trading Young or Murray for picks. Or maybe they package Young or Murray + 1st pick and get a star?

2) SAS big winners. Mov from 4 to 5 and get #8 from Toronto. Do they pick youngsters and keep building or try to win now by adding vets around Wemby. Do they go after Trae Young?

3) HOU also a winner, sure they give 12 to OKC but they move up from 9 to 3 with that BRK pick. Do they draft ANOTHER young guy or trade that 3 pick for vet help. What could Jalen green + #3 get you?

4) Poor Detroit. Drop from #1 to #5. They'll probably try to get vet help. Is Ingram from NOP an option maybe.

Honestly so many picks in the lottery could be available.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#1140 » by playa-hater » Sun May 12, 2024 9:30 pm

This is literally one of the first lotteries I had no idea about.. A big part of that reason is the n b a putting this on a weekend on the middle of a Sunday.. Maybe five years from now I will be proven wrong and some of these extremely young players turn out big time.. But as of now it seems so trash.. I literally expect a lot of teams in this lottery to entertain trading their pick or picks for a veteran..
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