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Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG!

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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#41 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:32 pm

Hal14 wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:

:roll:


You might not like to hear it, but the amount of effort Boston has made to bring in big time names to add to the coaching staff tells you all you need to know about how out of place Mazzula is. Dude needs all the help he can get to ensure we don’t have a failure like last years. Star players were really out there in game 3 of the ECF down 3-0 talking about how they have no identity, they don’t focus on defense and a bunch of other **** directly aimed at the coach and your homer glasses don’t allow you to see how awful Mazzula was.

Sounds like a lot of he say she say. And sounds like a lot of vague anecdotal stuff you're throwing out there.

If he was that bad, he would have been replaced.


It is he said. Tatum said, Smart said, Brown said, Brogdon said..lol

He was that bad. The reason he is staying is because they see potential in him, which I’m fine with. He saw his mistakes and now he has another year to correct it. But the effort to bring in big names is obviously their way of putting training wheels on his bike and not let him fall on his face again like he did when Dame left last year.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#42 » by dans1230 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:32 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
You might not like to hear it, but the amount of effort Boston has made to bring in big time names to add to the coaching staff tells you all you need to know about how out of place Mazzula is. Dude needs all the help he can get to ensure we don’t have a failure like last years. Star players were really out there in game 3 of the ECF down 3-0 talking about how they have no identity, they don’t focus on defense and a bunch of other **** directly aimed at the coach and your homer glasses don’t allow you to see how awful Mazzula was.

Sounds like a lot of he say she say. And sounds like a lot of vague anecdotal stuff you're throwing out there.

If he was that bad, he would have been replaced.


It is he said. Tatum said, Smart said, Brown said, Brogdon said..lol

He was that bad. The reason he is staying is because they see potential in him, which I’m fine with. He saw his mistakes and now he has another year to correct it. But the effort to bring in big names is obviously their way of putting training wheels on his bike and not let him fall on his face again like he did when Dame left last year.

I dont see it as training wheels, most elite teams and elite coaches have alot of experience on their bench and in their organization. Mazzula was put in an almost impossible situation last year, if he learns from even 75% of his mistakes from last year the sky is the limit for this team.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#43 » by Green89 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:03 pm

I wonder if he'll have a say in roster cuts that should be coming any day now.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#44 » by sam_I_am » Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:21 pm

I don’t think Van Gundy signing has anything to do with Joe. If you believe it is a sign ownership lacks confidence in anybody, it would be Brad. Of course, I don’t believe that at all given the money they are throwing behind his vision. I think ownership needs to generate maximum revenue and JVG is an NBA celebrity. Brad is boring and Joe is weird. JVG will help a ton with marketing a team that looks to be very talented and exciting to watch.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#45 » by Green89 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:26 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I don’t think Van Gundy signing has anything to do with Joe. If you believe it is a sign ownership lacks confidence in anybody, it would be Brad. Of course, I don’t believe that at all given the money they are throwing behind his vision. I think ownership needs to generate maximum revenue and JVG is an NBA celebrity. Brad is boring and Joe is weird. JVG will help a ton with marketing a team that looks to be very talented and exciting to watch.


Jeff storming the court and grabbing hold of opponents lower legs during scuffles would definitely help with our public image and marketing. :winkgrin: Clips of that would get way more views than Brad or Joe interviews.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#46 » by Hal14 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:59 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:This has nothing to do with how they feel about Mazzulla. They had an opportunity to upgrade the coaching staff so they took it. Just like when they had an opportunity to upgrade the roster with Porzingis and Holiday, they took it. Just like if they had an opportunity to improve their front office staff they would take it. This is what well run organization do, they keep bringing in talented people to combat employee turnover and keep their edge on the competition.

Stevens is not shy about making big moves and has already fired his head coach before. If he didn't have complete confidence in Mazzulla to get the job done, Budenholzer or whomever would have already had his press conference as the new Celtics head coach.

Jaylen Brown shot 41.8% from the field, 16% from the three, and 66% from the free throw line (at pathetic 3 attempts per game) while taking more shots than anyone else on the team. Coaching wasn't why we lost the Heat series.

*Looks like I quoted the wrong post.


Damn the obsession for Jaylen Brown is insane. Lol

I didn’t say we lost the Heat series because of Joe. But there was an obvious disconnect between him and the team. When everybody is getting asked what the problem is and all your players say it’s the defense while your coach says it’s the offense, there’s a major disconnect and to me that’s coaching. When your game plan is going under and leaving shooters open on every screen, to the point where even TNT announcers are questioning it, that’s on the coaching. A season ago we beat the Heat with less while they had more, and that’s because Ime didn’t get his ass handed to him by Spo the way Joe did.

More vague, subjective claims about Mazzulla with no links, no video, no tangible evidence to support your claim.

More he say, she say. Guess we'll just take your word for it?

I think you read too deeply into postgame interviews. Most of the time the stuff Mazzulla said in interviews last season was tongue in cheek, he was messing with the media. Clearly he was not super comfortable doing interviews - they're not his thing.

Whether it's coaches or players, I don't really think it's wise to read too deeply into the stuff they say right after a loss in the playoffs. That's obviously a moment where you're pissed off, frustrated, disappointed or whatever. In the heat of the moment, you might just say something out of frustration, that you don't even really mean.

Smart made some comments in interviews where he undermined Mazzulla - and he's gone now.

As for TNT announcers, who gives a crap what they think? The more controversial things they say, the hotter their takes, the higher their ratings will be - the more $ they can make from ads.

Saying that we beat the Heat in 2022 and lost to them in 2023 is all about coaching is misguided. You seem to way too much weight on coaching. The coaches are not the ones shooting jump shots or playing defense. They can only do so much.

We beat the heat in 7 games in 2022 and we lost to the heat in 7 games in 2023. That's not a very big difference at all. It's simply a difference of 1 game. A bounce here or a shot there and either series could've had a different outcome. Let's not act like we swept the beat in 2022 and got swept by miami in 2023.

KD said miami went to the finals because they all of a sudden had a fluke hot shooting streak:
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?s=20

This supports that claim:
Read on Twitter


Also, Ime had an entire offseason to prepare for being the head coach. He got to hand pick all of his assistants, including a bunch of guys he coached with for many years previously and some guys he has known for decades. Compare that to Ime who had no time to prepare for being the head coach, had to walk into a locker room full of guys who were in shock and were confused about what happened with Ime, had to coach players who were not given straight answers from ownership/front office about what happened with Ime, whether he'd return as coach at some point, etc. Mazzulla had to coach with Ime's homies as assistants, and the top assistant (Stoudemire) left for a college job right before the playoffs.

Again (as others have pointed out too) if Mazzulla was that bad, he would've been replaced this offseason. 90% of your posts for the past year are bashing Mazzulla - it's getting old. You're a broken record. The stuff you've posted bashing Mazzulla in this thread - you've already said this same stuff like 50 different times since last spring..

3 other points:
1) You say that we were leaving Miami open for 3's. But we actually generated more open 3's in the 2023 ECF than Miami did. We just got unlucky that they made theirs and we missed ours. Also, it's understandable if we were fine with letting them take 3's, since Miami was one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams in the league during the 22-23 reg season. Their 3 pt shooting would have been even worse during the 22-23 reg season if you remove Herro's shot attempts - which seems reasonable to do since he played in 0 games during the ECF. A guy like Butler (their best player and best scorer) is not a good 3 pt shooter, but is VERY good at scoring closer to the basket. Bam (their 2nd best scorer) is a non-shooter from 3 who is also really good at scoring closer to the basket. So it's understandable if part of our strategy w s to pack it into the paint and let them take 3's.

2) You love Ime so much. But isn't Ime the one who had us playing drop coverage in the 2022 NBA finals vs Steph, Klay and Poole?

3) You seem to give Ime all the credit for us beating the heat in the 2022 ECF, but did you know that Mazzulla was actually vital in putting together our gameplan for that series?

"Mazzulla was in charge of the game planning for the Miami series because they felt like he gave them the best chance to scout that."

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/why-did-celtics-choose-mazzulla-mannix-and-forsberg-weigh-in/268005/
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#47 » by 165bows » Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:01 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I don’t think Van Gundy signing has anything to do with Joe. If you believe it is a sign ownership lacks confidence in anybody, it would be Brad. Of course, I don’t believe that at all given the money they are throwing behind his vision. I think ownership needs to generate maximum revenue and JVG is an NBA celebrity. Brad is boring and Joe is weird. JVG will help a ton with marketing a team that looks to be very talented and exciting to watch.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I might be the only one that enjoys both of those guys quite a bit. Esp. Joe, he’s really come out of his shell this year.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#48 » by sam_I_am » Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:34 pm

165bows wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I don’t think Van Gundy signing has anything to do with Joe. If you believe it is a sign ownership lacks confidence in anybody, it would be Brad. Of course, I don’t believe that at all given the money they are throwing behind his vision. I think ownership needs to generate maximum revenue and JVG is an NBA celebrity. Brad is boring and Joe is weird. JVG will help a ton with marketing a team that looks to be very talented and exciting to watch.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I might be the only one that enjoys both of those guys quite a bit. Esp. Joe, he’s really come out of his shell this year.


I love Brad but as GM he is very low key. Joe and Brad is a far cry from Doc and Danny and 2008 so I think they wanted a high profile figure to make the front office more fan friendly.

But maybe he he is insurance in case the team falls apart and this is Brad’s last chance. Brad kind of lost his connection with team as coach. As GM he did hire Ime and then Joe. If Joe loses team early it will reflect badly on Brad. If ownership needs to blow up the front office, Jeff would be ready to either step in if he wants or help pick the next team. I actually think Sam Cassel and the guy from Milwaukee are the insurance for Mazzulla.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#49 » by Hal14 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:23 pm

Interesting...

Heat 3 pt shooting
22-23 reg season: 34.4%
22-23 reg season minus Herro's shot attempts: 33.5%
2023 1st round vs MIL: 45%
2023 2nd round vs Knicks: 30.6%
2023 ECF vs BOS: 43.4%
2023 NBA finals vs Denver: 34.3%
2022 ECF vs BOS: 30%

This type of variance and unpredictability is why small. sample sizes (like a 5 or 7 game series) should be taken with a grain of salt.

You know what else is a small sample size? A 1 season sample size. Udoka was HC here for only 1 season. Mazzulla has been HC here for 1 season.

1 season is a very small sample size when trying to evaluate how good a HC is. With such a small sample size, it could be a bounce here or a shot here and now that coach is seen in a completely different light. Like if Butler's 3 was good in game 7 of the 2022 ECF. Or if Tatum didn't sprain his ankle on the first possession of game 7 in the 2023 ECF.

That's why we need a larger sample size (of at least 2 or 3 seasons, if not 4+ seasons) in order to evaluate a HC with more accuracy.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#50 » by SuperDeluxe » Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:51 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I love Brad but as GM he is very low key. Joe and Brad is a far cry from Doc and Danny and 2008 so I think they wanted a high profile figure to make the front office more fan friendly.

Because he's been hired as a consultant, I can't see JVG talking to the press much or representing the Celtics in any way. I could be wrong though.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#51 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:57 pm

As long as we're talking about shooting in the ECF vs. Miami...

Our shooting in G1 and G2 at home (both losses):

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Horford (13 FGAs) and Brown (44 FGAs), eeeeek. Blame Smart (12 FGAs) who can't shoot and takes too many shots though.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#52 » by Green89 » Sun Oct 15, 2023 5:59 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I love Brad but as GM he is very low key. Joe and Brad is a far cry from Doc and Danny and 2008 so I think they wanted a high profile figure to make the front office more fan friendly.

Because he's been hired as a consultant, I can't see JVG talking to the press much or representing the Celtics in any way. I could be wrong though.


I'm sure he'll be invited to the broadcast booth for a quarter or two, at some point in some games.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#53 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:58 pm

Off-topic, but anyone know what happened to Jackie MacMullan? It seems like she wasn't active or even heard from all of last season, maybe even longer than that.

EDIT: Never mind. She retired from ESPN but is still connected with The Ringer.

https://www.boston.com/sports/media/2021/08/18/jackie-macmullan-espn-boston-globe-retiring/
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#54 » by SuperDeluxe » Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:19 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Off-topic, but anyone know what happened to Jackie MacMullan? It seems like she wasn't active or even heard from all of last season, maybe even longer than that.

EDIT: Never mind. She retired from ESPN but is still connected with The Ringer.

https://www.boston.com/sports/media/2021/08/18/jackie-macmullan-espn-boston-globe-retiring/

I love Jackie. Because I don't watch TV, I rarely ever had a chance to see her on that ESPN show, but I did look forward to her articles online. Once she hangs it up 100%, she'll be definitely missed.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#55 » by jfs1000d » Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:24 pm

Green89 wrote:I wonder if he'll have a say in roster cuts that should be coming any day now.


Typically his job is likely to be advanced scouting, defensive strategy and play design and player management. Things that experienced coaches would help, and, to be honest the fun stuff of coaching.

Coaches hate the player selection process. They like the basketball end of it.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#56 » by fallguy » Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:45 pm

SuperDeluxe wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Off-topic, but anyone know what happened to Jackie MacMullan? It seems like she wasn't active or even heard from all of last season, maybe even longer than that.

EDIT: Never mind. She retired from ESPN but is still connected with The Ringer.

https://www.boston.com/sports/media/2021/08/18/jackie-macmullan-espn-boston-globe-retiring/

I love Jackie. Because I don't watch TV, I rarely ever had a chance to see her on that ESPN show, but I did look forward to her articles online. Once she hangs it up 100%, she'll be definitely missed.


She is a wonderful human being. Gorman and her are cut from the same cloth.
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#57 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:21 am

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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#58 » by Jammer » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:24 am

:D :clap: :rockon: :hug: :onfire: :wizard:
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#59 » by KamikazeK » Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:02 am

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
bigfoot_cryptozoology wrote:Other than Mazzulla, that Celtics coaching staff is Championship quality....


chrisab123 wrote:Can't have enough experience especially when the Head Coach isn't qualified to be the Head Coach.

:roll:


You might not like to hear it, but the amount of effort Boston has made to bring in big time names to add to the coaching staff tells you all you need to know about how out of place Mazzula is.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. Ideally, you *would* surround yourself with competent people who can add to what you already have. Well, I can't speak for basketball specifically, but leadership more generally is not always about being the one guy who knows and controls everything. No matter who the coach is, it would be silly to not try to take advantage of the Celtics' status as a top NBA franchise in order to get the best coaching staff possible. Unless the coach is a guy like Spo or Pop, then I would be more concerned if his perspective was "I don't want outsiders telling me how to do my job."
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Re: Welcome to the Celtics Org, JVG! 

Post#60 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:41 am

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