RealGM

playa-hater wrote:FVV is an excellent comp. And a starting championship PG.

I do believe PP's ceiling can be that and a bit more..

VanVleet was not a starting championship PG. He came off the bench for the raptors when they won the 2019 title. He didn't start a single game during the playoffs that year.

And even after that, when Kawhi and Danny Green left, Lowry was the PG and VanVleet started at the 2.

VanVleet was not a full-time starting PG until the 20-21 season, when Toronto finished 12th in the East.

This year as Houston's starting PG, the Rockets missed the play-in tournament.

Edit

threrf23 wrote:

Hal14 wrote:He's 26 yrs old. At age 26, most of the development has been done. He's just about a finished product at this point. There's typically a little more development/improvement that can hap[pen after age 26 but it's usually not much. The vast majority of the development is between age 18-26.

I'm not so sure about this. Players tend to peak between 26-31, probably 27-28 on average. But part of this is simply because this is when they peak athletically.

For players who remain able to contribute into their 30s, their game can continue to mature in their 30s. PGs in particular take longer to develop relative to other positions, and it is also not uncommon for them to play well into their 30s.

When Steph turned 26? He was barely removed from his first all star appearance. Steve Nash was averaging 9 points per game, mostly off the bench. Avery Johnson was a minimum salary pickup for the Spurs after he was waived. Chauncey was making the MLE. Lowry was about to be traded for a future first + Gary Forbes.

Not saying I expect Pritch to become a perennial all star, just saying.

My post was referring to the development paths for the *majority* of pro basketball players who were drafted in the past 10 years or so.

You mentioned a few outliers, who were all drafted well over a decade ago (examples that are so outdated are not as relevant to a discussion about today's players or a guy who was just drafted less than 4 yrs ago).

Also, Steve Nash did not average 9 PPG, mostly off the bench when hew as 26. When he was 26 it was the 00-01 season - he averaged 15.6 PPG, had a 34.6 assist %, started every game and won the league's Most Improved Player award.

Hal14 wrote:
Also, Steve Nash did not average 9 PPG, mostly off the bench when hew as 26. When he was 26 it was the 00-01 season - he averaged 15.6 PPG, had a 34.6 assist %, started every game and won the league's Most Improved Player award.

He turned 26 in February of the '99-00 season, just like Pritchard turned 26 on January 28th this season.

bball-reference shows a player's age on February 1st of a given season; Pritch's bday is January 28th, Steve Nash February 7th, hence the misleading discrepancy

Hal14 wrote:

playa-hater wrote:FVV is an excellent comp. And a starting championship PG.

I do believe PP's ceiling can be that and a bit more..

VanVleet was not a starting championship PG. He came off the bench for the raptors when they won the 2019 title. He didn't start a single game during the playoffs that year.

And even after that, when Kawhi and Danny Green left, Lowry was the PG and VanVleet started at the 2.

VanVleet was not a full-time starting PG until the 20-21 season, when Toronto finished 12th in the East.

This year as Houston's starting PG, the Rockets missed the play-in tournament.

Worst starting championship PG I can think is 91 bulls John Paxson Pritchard could be better than him.

threrf23 wrote:I think I noted when he was drafted, parallels to Fred VanVleet. Running a search, someone else did and I concurred. Similar size. Storied four year college career, starting PG for teams that did really well. No true standout skills, just a gamer and a winner. Jamal Shead btw fits the same category to a T and deserves consideration in the upcoming draft. Anyways...

I'd say his ceiling is a bit below FVV because, quoting myself from 2020

FVV's draftexpress page, from 2014, "Though the small guard isn't a freak athlete, he does possess impressive quickness and can be a pest when opposing guards are loose with their handle away from the rim." Pritchard's nbadraft.net capsule: "Foot speed limits his defensive ability at the next level to some degree."

I do not at all mean this as a knock on Pritch, FVV has long been one of the league's most underrated players IMO

Agree there are a couple of similarities, and that defense is the difference here.

FVV being a bulldog with a deceptively strong physical base, incredible hands and capable of elite stretches of defense.

PP will never be close to that unfortunately.

With regard to some others posts, FVV was absolutely an above average starting point in this league, you don't become an all star not being that. Playing beside a likely hall of famer in Kyle Lowry and having the shift to PG on rosters destined for the lottery is no indicator against this. I'd be ecstatic if Payton got near that level even on one side of the ball.

djFan71 wrote:I need something between 2 and 3. I started at 2, but no longer think he’ll get exposed in the playoffs. He’ll be a solid backup in the first few rounds and then have his time squeezed in later rounds like any backup. I’m also not ready to deem him a starter. Ceiling as a starter on a meh team, maybe.

This is where I am, basically.
I think of him as a backup on a good team, but I guess that means he could start on a crappy one. My main concern with him is the playoffs, not the RS, and crappy teams don't make it there anyway.

Given his height and athletic profile, I think he's done well to stick, and continues to get better.

His ceiling is a Danny Ainge IMO.

Scarletfire81 wrote:His ceiling is a Danny Ainge IMO.

2nd best Celtics GM/PBO of the century?

Loved him today. Composed, effective, active, effort. Solid play in a post season game.

High power microwave weapon

I think he's become effective enough that he should probably take some of Holiday's minutes early in the POs to see what it looks like. Maybe play him 25 minutes, Holiday at 30 and White at 35+. Holiday has lost quickness but is a lot more versatile on defense, and very savvy. I think Jrue while still a good player is living off his rep, and PP has surpassed in some areas. Overall, PP's ceiling would be a high level 6th man if he can continue to improve his game and get stronger to offset his lack of size.

Please don't mention Steve Nash and Jason Kidd. Good lord

Decent starter, think he’s better off the bench tho

I think he's likely the team's future starter at PG when Holiday ages out.

JaMarco wrote:I think he's likely the team's future starter at PG when Holiday ages out.

I highly doubt that. Pritchard's improved as a playmaker, but he still doesn't bring enough there where it'd be worth the loss of defensive size. If Holiday ages out, they'll either replace him with a high level guard or if it's a JAG they'll go with a 3&D wing/forward type over Pritchard.

hugepatsfan wrote:

JaMarco wrote:I think he's likely the team's future starter at PG when Holiday ages out.

I highly doubt that. Pritchard's improved as a playmaker, but he still doesn't bring enough there where it'd be worth the loss of defensive size. If Holiday ages out, they'll either replace him with a high level guard or if it's a JAG they'll go with a 3&D wing/forward type over Pritchard.

Or the PG would be d-white.

Mazzulla announced that White was gonna be the team's starting PG last summer, prior to the Jrue trade.

White is only 29, so could be a starter for the Celtics for another 5-6 years or so..

Bet PP can be a steady solid 6th man who brings energy and sparks the offense. Even more so because he really wants to speed up the game. Something I wish Boston would do more often.

Best offensive rebounder on the team, even though he's the shortest guy on the floor.

Pretty much a 6 ft or 6"1 version of Danny Ainge so not nearly as good as peak Ainge but still a useful player. Ainge was around 6"4 even if he was sometimes listed at 6"5 but after a slow start to his NBA career, earned a reputation as a pretty clutch playoff performer so he had the opportunity to stay in the league in a limited bench role even after he was well past his prime.

Ainge made an all-star game and probably would have made 1 more if he was drafted to a team that wasn't as good as the Celtics. PP will never do that but he can still be a very good bench player that the Celtics and their opponents have confidence in.

I don't see much upside in his actual game but just PP getting more calls from the refs that he deserves like when offensive players push off against him would be good.

JaMarco wrote:I think he's likely the team's future starter at PG when Holiday ages out.

Good player but if he is starting for the Cs then they won’t be contending.