DOC SUCKS!!!!!

Datruth345 · Post #61 » by **Datruth345** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 4:48 pm

i see rondo as someone who is very cool and collected under pressure

i understand that a veteran backup would make everyone at ease a little (myself incuded) whne it comes to the playoffs and the point guard situation, because i don't want tony bringing the ball up in the playoffs....please god no...

but i'm not sure that is necessarily needed or else we won't win a title

i could be thinking too optimistically as well

rayofsunshine · Post #62 » by **rayofsunshine** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 4:50 pm

Anyway, I say all that to say. I am worried about Doc and I have only seen 30 games. LMAO!

lojowo · Post #63 » by **lojowo** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:31 pm

http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/le ... am=Celtics

Doc only had one rotation out there that was a losing rotation without starters, and they only played 2:06 minutes.

The rotation that really sucked had Perkins and ray Allen on the court, two starters.

Hemingway · Post #64 » by **Hemingway** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:41 pm

This may have already been said but I'm not about to read all 6 pages:

A few things to keep in mind:

1. When we waited and didn't call a time out when they were making a run, keep in mind that we got a free TV time out by waiting. That is all I can figure there.

2. Ming was out for a while too so we could afford to rest KG.

3. I think there is something to be said for putting a little pressure on the non big 3 players. They still need to be 1st and 2nd options at times.

I was initially mad at Doc but I thinkj that was because I was scared we might lose. I think to be a great coach you can't be afraid to lose. You have to play from strength not weakness.

GonzoLays · Post #65 » by **GonzoLays** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:08 pm

What a freaking thread.

Tricky Ricky · Post #66 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:05 pm

lojowo wrote:http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22007&split=20&team=Celtics

Doc only had one rotation out there that was a losing rotation without starters, and they only played 2:06 minutes.

The rotation that really sucked had Perkins and ray Allen on the court, two starters.

Im aware and as the lead slipped away Doc wouldnt call a timeout to help stop the bleeding and kept KG and Pierce benched

Tricky Ricky · Post #67 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:09 pm

Hemingway wrote:This may have already been said but I'm not about to read all 6 pages:

A few things to keep in mind:

1. When we waited and didn't call a time out when they were making a run, keep in mind that we got a free TV time out by waiting. That is all I can figure there.

2. Ming was out for a while too so we could afford to rest KG.

3. I think there is something to be said for putting a little pressure on the non big 3 players. They still need to be 1st and 2nd options at times.

I was initially mad at Doc but I thinkj that was because I was scared we might lose. I think to be a great coach you can't be afraid to lose. You have to play from strength not weakness.

I was a lot more upset during and right after the game than I am now, maybe your right though

Tricky Ricky · Post #68 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:10 pm

GonzoLays wrote:What a freaking thread.

(picture)

Because were 27-3? You can thank the big three for that, Doc should get little credit in my mind

GonzoLays · Post #69 » by **GonzoLays** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:51 pm

Tricky Ricky wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Because were 27-3? You can thank the big three for that, Doc should get little credit in my mind

So you are saying the NBA is a player's league and coaching has hardly anything to do with final outcome? EXCELLENT!

celticfan42487 · Post #70 » by **celticfan42487** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 7:54 pm

Joselo16 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Its not really flawed because we had the lead very early giving the rockets enough time to mount a comeback which took them 2 quarters, if we had the lead going into the fourth they would most likely not have enough time to beat us and giving our trio the quarter off.

That said I do want these guys (3) to be well rested for the playoffs so we need better contributions from our bench like Detroit. None of Detroit's starters play more than 35 minutes a game and its due to their bench.

Well actually your wrong.

We had the lead in the fourth and a sizeable one. 8 points. That was with the 3 playing most of the third. So I guess we should of played them most of the 2nd to get them the 4th off?

But wouldn't it be bad strategy to let them go on their run in the fourth without our big 3 in? So don't you think one of the big 3 would of been put back in to hold them off and seal the game...

We agree with the last point, but I still say your argument is false. Everyone here fails to see that we had Pierce and Ray in most of the game and in reality it was only a short time they were out of the game [about 5 minutes for both and some of this was in the first half]

HOU won every quarter after the first and that was with our Big 3 in. At some point you have to let your guys rest. I guess it's all a mute point anyways but by beign mute that kinda proves everyone else right that this isn't a legit argument

humblebum · Post #71 » by **humblebum** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:05 pm

Hey celticfan####, not to be a jerk but it's "a moot point" not a "mute point"... Again no offense.

On topic: during the game I wasn't too happy with Doc's decision to stick with the unit that was clearly falling to pieces in front of our eyes but as the game progessed and I thought about it more it made sense on several levels. For one, he simply needed to get guys the rest so they could come in and play the rest of the game. Two, he needs to test whether or not the bench can hang without having to play more than one of the big 3. And three, he needs to prove to his guys that he trusts them to work their way through rough patches. For those reasons I understand what Doc was thinking... if he was indeed thinking along these lines.

However, there are two points that I disagree with. One Rondo should have been subbed in for House earlier in the run, mostly because he was getting absolutely torched by Rafer on the pick and roll play. And two, there was NO need to have Perkins in the game while Yao was on the bench. Doc should have saved Perk for guarding Yao later in the game. Still there is part of me that says that maybe Doc simply trusted Perk to play foul free ball and that in the back of his mind he knew that Garnett could do what he did defensively with Yao.

So overall I don't think that this coaching decision was an overall negative for the group. It's cliche but every game the team learns something new about itself. This is definitely a big step in the learning process.

celticfan42487 · Post #72 » by **celticfan42487** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:17 pm

no you're a jerk and I **** hate you

Tricky Ricky · Post #73 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:33 pm

GonzoLays wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So you are saying the NBA is a player's league and coaching has hardly anything to do with final outcome? EXCELLENT!

Coaching has hardly anything to do with final outcome???? Have u even read anything I wrote??????????? EXCELLENT!

RapidRondo · Post #74 » by **RapidRondo** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:47 pm

i'll wait to unleash my thoughts on Doc until we get into a heated playoff series

Joyeuse · Post #75 » by **Joyeuse** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 8:58 pm

lojowo wrote:http://www.nba.com/statistics/lenovo/lenovo_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22007&split=20&team=Celtics

Doc only had one rotation out there that was a losing rotation without starters, and they only played 2:06 minutes.

The rotation that really sucked had Perkins and ray Allen on the court, two starters.

Looking at that, we slipped nine points with that one lineup in just over a minute. If I remember correctly, that was the lineup that played really sloppy, committed a few turnovers, and bricked a couple quick shots.

But I think the most notable thing there is that in the eight minutes where Pierce wasn't playing, the Celtics managed to score six points combined. Obviously we can't keep Pierce in all game, but when we take him out, our offense becomes significantly worse. This is actually a trend across the season - check the 82games data for on and off court offense, though I wish I could adjust that to see how well the offense plays with different combinations of players. My hypothesis is that Pierce has become our most important player on offense, by scoring and drawing attention from the defense, and that the drop off when he leaves the court is indicative of his immense importance on offense.

Post #76 » by **ParticleMan** » Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:06 pm

What the Doc Haters refuse to give Doc credit for is the fact that he has gotten 3 allstars to play together extremely well, buy into the offensive and defensive schemes, and has gotten the most out of the guys he has.

As for not calling time outs early enough, you should feel good you're not a Laker fan, because Phil Jackson would make you apopleptic. He almost NEVER calls time outs when an opposing team goes on a big run. For that matter, neither did KC Jones. But I guess those guys suck too.

You may prefer a micro-managing type coach. A Larry Brown or a Rick Carlisle. That's your preference. But it's stupid to not realize that that isn't the only way to coach, and judging by number of championships, it's probably not the best way to coach.

Doc has a veteran team. Usually they can figure out how to right the ship. Last night they slipped a bit. They didn't play hard, they didn't defend well. I don't think that was Doc's fault, he can't actually force them to move their feet and play aggressively. But you know what, if our team only slips up 1 time out of every 30 games, I'll take that.

It's like the Ainge haters. They still couldn't let go of their agenda in spite of all the evidence, until we finally proved that this team was great. It's the same with the Doc haters. They refuse to see the big picture and complain about insignificant moves in the 30th game of the season without recognizing or acknowledging the overall big picture success.

Post #77 » by **sully00** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 5:08 am

I swear to god some people act like they never watch the NBA. Have you ever watched Riley, Phil Jackson, or Greg Popovich coach? Do these guys pee their pants and call time out after time out if their team struggles? No that let their team work it out. Sink or swim. You know who coaches the way you want Doc to coach, Scott Skiles and Rick Carlisle and what have they done and were are they now? No rings and unemployed, because eventually their lack of confidence in their team caught up with them.

As far as mins go take a look and see how many mins Phil Jackson played Jordan and Kobe. How did that work out again?

Appreciate how hard and focused this team plays night in and night out for Doc Rivers, they just swept back to back back to backs on the West Coast, that is ridiculous.

This is the NBA teams make runs and teams go cold. The blowouts this team has been handing out, much like with the Patriots earlier in the year said as much about their opponents who quit and rolled over, as it does about the C's. In close games like last night is when you find out what kind of team you really have.

I know it might be hard to understand but when you team is 27-3 it really is alright to just enjoy it, it isn't going to be this way all season. We will lose two in row and then you can all go nuts about how its because of Doc's rotation or how his offense sucks, or Pierce took the shot with 4 seconds left instead of 2, or he just isn't a leader. But till then just enjoy it.

Tricky Ricky · Post #78 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 2:46 pm

sully00 wrote:I swear to god some people act like they never watch the NBA. Have you ever watched Riley, Phil Jackson, or Greg Popovich coach? Do these guys pee their pants and call time out after time out if their team struggles? No that let their team work it out. Sink or swim. You know who coaches the way you want Doc to coach, Scott Skiles and Rick Carlisle and what have they done and were are they now? No rings and unemployed, because eventually their lack of confidence in their team caught up with them.

As far as mins go take a look and see how many mins Phil Jackson played Jordan and Kobe. How did that work out again?

Appreciate how hard and focused this team plays night in and night out for Doc Rivers, they just swept back to back back to backs on the West Coast, that is ridiculous.

This is the NBA teams make runs and teams go cold. The blowouts this team has been handing out, much like with the Patriots earlier in the year said as much about their opponents who quit and rolled over, as it does about the C's. In close games like last night is when you find out what kind of team you really have.

I know it might be hard to understand but when you team is 27-3 it really is alright to just enjoy it, it isn't going to be this way all season. We will lose two in row and then you can all go nuts about how its because of Doc's rotation or how his offense sucks, or Pierce took the shot with 4 seconds left instead of 2, or he just isn't a leader. But till then just enjoy it.

Some of you guys are acting like Doc is God, the past 3 seasons everyone on this board wanted him out of town and now some of you are acting like hes the best coach ever. I dont know if you guys are new members or just think since our records good hes good. If you take away KG youd prob have a below 500 team and would all be wanting Doc fired. Trust me the players have a bigger impact on the record than Doc, I think my Dog would have a above 500 record coaching a team this good. I know the type of responses Im going to get for this so Im not going to bother responding on this post, I dont know if some of you guys are bandwagon jumpers or really have been watching him coach the last 3 seasons but in my opinion ON THIS TEAM its the players NOT DOC!

Tricky Ricky · Post #79 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 2:50 pm

sully00 wrote:I know it might be hard to understand but when you team is 27-3 it really is alright to just enjoy it, it isn't going to be this way all season. We will lose two in row and then you can all go nuts about how its because of Doc's rotation or how his offense sucks, or Pierce took the shot with 4 seconds left instead of 2, or he just isn't a leader. But till then just enjoy it.

You do have a point Sully and after all of these years losing you really just have to enjoy it, I never meant for this thread to get this big I was just upset about that Hou game with the lead collapsing but whether I think the coach is good or not or having an effect or not I am just enjoying the winning like I said Im not posting on this thread again because we dont need anymore negative comments on this board, we had enough the past few years lol

GonzoLays · Post #80 » by **GonzoLays** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:40 pm

Just another thread to validate the greatness of GonzoLays.

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!!

The greatest thread ever made on this board (Peep the date of the thread too): http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=583490

NOSTRAGONZOMUS