RealGM

Pro/Cons of giving Big Baby the nod in starting lineup over perk.

Pros
-Much better offensive production
-Offensive rebounds
-More hustle
-MUCH better hands

Cons
-Will have trouble guarding taller more athletic centers ie. big z, mcdyess, dwight etc.
-is his body NBA ready to get consistant NBA minutes? he is a rookie, he could break down in the 2nd half of season
-not as good of a passer as perk
-cannot jump/defend as well
-if he can't play center, asking KG to play center could put more strain on him (he's our most important player)


I know it's one game. I'm just throwing it out there. Big Baby has got some DNPs in the past I'm just wondering if those were match up reasons or he just wasn't practicing well for Doc.

The answer is No. Perk brings critical size, defense, and rebounding.

Big Baby is good at finishing. He is good at making layups, and he is WIDE OPEN because everyone is paying attention to the Pierce, Garnett, and RayAllen.

Big Baby is energy off the bench, not our starting Center.

I would prefer to have big Baby come off the bench as a second unit offensive punch. We have a good offensive flow established with our main lineup. Let Perk do the dirty work.

We need post scoring from the bench in the 1st half. But he'll be on court a couple of close games during the 4th quarter.

1.)Defense
2.)KG hates playing center
3.)Energy off the bench. I don't think Perk could come in and score a few quick buckets and energize the team and fans
4.)Experience

I'm not biased either way. As inept as Perk loosk sometimes he turned in a solid performance last night. 7/9 on 50% shooting. We outscored Detroit 28-0 in the paint in the second half. How amazing is that. I think that is a little bit of Perk's D and Big Baby's O.

Big Baby has shown he can be an offensive force finishing down low...so he can't be in the starting lineup. His skills would go to waste as a 4th option behind GPA. Perkins has provided good defense all season and that's much more important to the 1st team than being able to finish on layups.

Big Baby is a role player. Perk gives us defernse, rebounding, toughness and size. If we went over the long haul with big baby teams with real centers (not McDyess or Rasheed) would destroy us.

Big Baby works because we have a legendary rebounder at the PF spot and very good rebounders at the 3 and 1 spot.

Perk is in no danger of being benched. He is playing pretty well IMO. He is exactly the kind of center this team needs. Him, Pollard and Big Baby will get it done against most teams. Baby is the most talented of the bunch, but he is only 6-7 290 pounds. That's too small over the long haul. Baby is a bench player, and in fact, a very good one. Move him into the starting lineup and he is a liability.

Just plain size, he isn't tall enough.

I anticipated this in the cigar thread; I felt there would start being threads dedicated to starting Glen over Perkins. I think what Davis has done is played himself into getting more time on the floor, but not necessarily replacing Perkins. The team should be utilizing both players, not one over the other. Perkins defensively is really good alongside Garnett in the post, and that should initially set the tone. Glen can become a good option along the way to bring more offense and provide another interior presence on the boards. Doc can sit some of the starters to utilize a bit of small ball in that case but still not lose any physicality in the paint with Glen on the floor.

Davis' play has simply given the Celtics more versatility, and an option to add to the team. Having him being a starting center on top of completely replacing someone who's been a positive might not be in the best interests of the team.

No, he shouldn't start over Perk but he should be getting a pretty significant amount of more playing time. It's really crazy that he's got 7 DNP's and many more 2 or 3 minutes of garbage time games.

This kid does something good every time he's on the court. He's easily our best offensive rebounder, he's been very good defensively and he is a great finisher around the rim. His hands are great even in traffic, too.

There are clearcut starters in this league, who both start and finish games, and then there are guys who do one or the other but not necessarily both.

GPA are clearcut starters.

Rondo will probably be a steady, clearcut starter before the year is out.

Perkins is a starter, but commonly doesn't finish.

Posey never starts, but commonly finishes. Classic Sixth Man.

House, Tony -- never start except for injury, occasionally finish.

Davis's role could become like House's or Tony's.

The real upside for Davis would be to cut into Posey's minutes at the 4, pushing Posey out to the perimeter and causing a ripple effect in which one of the guards loses minutes.

Perk had a poor defensive game, but don't forget Perk has had some pretty good nights finishing at the rim as well. In fact he had some good moves last night too early on Unfortunately Detroit is a tough matchup for Perk, because they have two jumpshooting mobile big men. This is one of the few matchups that Baby could actually function defensively at a level similar to Perk.

I don't think perk is in any danger of losing his spot. I'm just hoping Baby gets more mins over Pollard.

Hey anyone notice that Scal is now completely out of the rotation? That was step 1, for Baby to pass Scal, which he'd done. Woot!

Center is the black hole on the Celtics.

Glen Davis is not the answer.

What the Celtics need from a center is rebounding, post defense, and patrolling the paint, with a reasonable amount of points.

Perkins, Davis and Pollard, before yesterday, were averaging 13 ppg, 10 rpg and 1 apg.

Perkins and Davis get their points by being alone under the basket, with the defense having to be up against Ray Allen and Paul Pierce on the wings, Kevin Garnett in the high post, and whoever is in at point (Rondo, House or Tony Allen).

Neither Davis or Perk can create their own shot. Pollard can actually knock down outside jump shots, but doesn't take them. I wish he would.

Defensively, Perk has more size, standing reach (very important), vertical leap and experience.

If anything, if the opportunity allows, and which I suggested two months ago, Glen Davis can finish games with the starting unit because of his increased creativity around the basket. This is mostly dependent on whether he is on, in the zone, and can just find away to put the ball in the basket without out athletising (word??- no) his opponents.

Perk takes the load off of Garnett with his post defense, and banging with players to save wear and tear on Garnett. Davis can sometimes work, he won't be there all the time. He's simply undersized, without Larry Johnson or Charles Barkley's quicks, jump shot, ball handling or leaping ability.

Davis will be there every now and then, hanging out underneath, and making a living off all the attention given to PGA. But Davis isn't the defensive presence of Perkins, Detroit simply missed their shots yesterday. But they were open, they just didn't fall.

Figuring out a way to get more production out of Davis, Perk and Pollard (especially Scot) will be the key for the Celtics having success in the playoffs, when teams study films, matchups, and pick one or two guys to try to shut down (i.e. Eddie House or Glen Davis).

I think the Celtics production at center is more glaring if you look at:

41 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg from Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Eddie House, Tony Allen
47 ppg, 20 rpg, 10 apg from Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, James Posey
13 ppg, 11 rpg, 1 apg from Kendrick Perkins, Scot Pollard, Glen Davis

The need to improve is on line 3, the centers. Rebounding improvement is probably the most achievable, Kendrick has really upped his numbers the last 8 games, since Perk was heavily criticized on this board for not rebounding (Perk's season average has increased from 4.9 to 5.6 in that time).

I don't think he should bestart but it was hard not to notice that Rasheed couldn't really dislodge Davis from the paint which I found pretty encouraging.

ParticleMan wrote:Hey anyone notice that Scal is now completely out of the rotation? That was step 1, for Baby to pass Scal, which he'd done. Woot!

Hahahaha

It's funny you should mention that. All summer I kept hearing how Scal would prove his worth and I even heard the comparison of Big Shot Bob Horry thrown out there.

Hahaha

No. KG and Perk are a great combo. Perk brings exactly what we need in the starting 5. And since we need some scoring off the bench Davis is perfect for that role.

Davis is great off the bench. Also thosecomplaining about thecenter position were fine. There are not many great centers left anymore. We have three guys who are servicable. Perk, pollard and davis would be 1st or second string centers on any nba team. They all bring something different to the table. Look at san antonio there center is weak fran elsonor oberto they are no better than what we have. In the nba you need a good big guy either for center and we have a great pf in garnett. Baby is going to be a player we just need to keep cliff ray and keepwotking with him.

I would keep starting Perk, for all the reasons that everyone mentioned. Also, I like the stability of keeping the front of our rotation in place.

I think stats are a poor way to measure our production at the C spot. They are in there for defense, for beating up opponents, for using up fouls, and for making shots when they are wide open. So far they've been pretty good at it. Of course we'd be better off with Yao or Howard but it's tough to assemble allstars at all 5 spots. If Ainge pulled that off we'd know for sure that he sold his Mormon soul to the devil.

Jammer wrote:I think the Celtics production at center is more glaring if you look at:

105.4 mpg, 41 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg from Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Eddie House, Tony Allen
95.5 mpg, 47 ppg, 20 rpg, 10 apg from Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, James Posey
42.3 mpg, 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 1 apg from Kendrick Perkins, Scot Pollard, Glen Davis

It's an interesting comparison but you have to account for minutes.