GAME 4 : Celtics @ Hawks - Monday, April 28th (2-1)

[Red2]

doc has run his starters into the ground 2 games in a row. of course neither poew nor sam nor eddie gave us anything. childress believe it or not really hurt tonight with his length. doc hs to play tony allen on johnson and childress and give ray and paul a blow. pierce killed us tonight with his fouls, poor free throw shooting and turnovers. it's s a shame because otherwise he has a good game./ I thouight the officiating got to us tonight and we let our emotions take control. losing the game the way we did though was more about lack of energy in the 4th- our starters were dead. leon powe was out of position on the boards all night long. diod he even get a rebound. I don't get doc. he comes out and says baby is playing better so what does he do? he leves him on the bench pretty much the hwole game. there's a reason doc lost his job in orlando and you're starting to see it. after game 3 he should have practiced his team hard. instead all he did was make them watch film. we looked horrible. did you see cassell and garnett in the 4th? they didn't know what to do with one another on the court. I'm starting to think that pj brown and cassell are hurthing us more than helping us. this one really hurt

[RayAllen#34]

I don't know why people are trashing Ray's defense, Ray got burned tonight by JJ, but u cant expect much else from a 32 year old playing 44 minutes (including the entire second half of the game). Also, including tonight's game, JJ is shooting 43 from the field in this series, which isn't amazing by any measure. Doc shouldve managed ray's play time better during this game.

[cinnamon]

I am in pain.
I had to keep stopping the tape and trying to blank it all out. It felt like some alien invasion of the Celtics' bodies.
Thank heaven Wednesday's game is back in Boston --- that should get the actual team back and get everything back on track.

[effjay]

I AM NOT TROLLING.

Trust me when I say this guys, I feel your damn angry, hate filled pain.

I must say that I dont feel so bad as a Piston fan now though. I honestly think that this all stems from three points;

1.)GS beating Dallas last year. Lower seeds now think that, yes, the impossible can be done.

2.)All those draft picks are starting to come to fruition.

3.)Philly was on a roll before the playoffs started, and that Bibby trade from Atlanta gave them a HUGE boost in playoff experience, and calmness.

Dont worry. We are BOTH the better teams, and we'll meet in the ECF as we should.

As another Pistons fan, I second zeeb's post.

[tanat-0s]

That's not about this series, we will win it no doubt.
But Celts showed everybody tonight that they're vulnerable, that they're soft.
Right now I can't see how this team can beat even Orlando, not to speak about LAL or SAS.

[The Corey's]

The Hawks took 15 more FT then the Celts, and made 19 more.

So in short, the Hawks made more FT then the Celtics took, which is incredible.

Cause they didnt call the pushes on ATL, they didnt call the touches, it was crap.

[DMurn02]

Get a freakin grip! We lost TWO games and half of the board is crying and predicting a series loss. The kicker, these are the same fans that were running around other teams boards and talking smack when we were winning. These are the same fans that were demanding we trade guys like Al for guys like KG last year, and now I find them "longing" for the days of rebuilding. These so called fans are embarressing. They don't want the Celtics to succeed, they enjoy misery. The like when the Celtics lose so they can drag the rest of us down with their curmudgeon attitudes.

Suck it up! We're 2-2, so is Detroit. We're going to win game 5 at home.

Only a few people said we were going to lose the series, I wouldn't say half the people are. People are just worried, and they have the right to be. But people who think Jefferson would have made any difference are not all there. People who long for the days of rebuilding are just people who look for reasons to be miserable. But I wouldn't say the thoughts of a tiny group of people reflect that of the whole board.

[Kefa461]

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it is not the refs. The c's are a passive jump shooting team. Hawks are more aggressive and the C's are affraid of the shot blockers. hey should be attcking them to force fouls.

Thats why we handled them the same way in 3 regular season games and 2 playoff games until we came into Atlanta.

They were just as aggressive and the C's are pros...afraid of shot blockers???
Who the **** are you talking about...these guys are pros...please ?

[tfmiii]

I have read about 15 different things Doc could have done and maybe 10 would counter out the other one. He had a game plan that won him 60 plus games and it didn't work. It wasn't Doc. The team blow foul shots, layups, bad passes in key times and poor defense in key spots. Add refs that were **** us left and right with poor calls I think they made it a close game.

That is part of the problem though, they are not playing the same game plan that got them 66 wins.

The bench was integral in winning those games, it would come in and keep the pressure up, increase our athelticism and keep the main men fresh. Doc read somewhere that you can only play 8 in the playoffs and as a consequence he is sacrificing one of our true strengths, esp against a team like atl that is atheltic but not very deep.

Prior to the year a lot of people said the bench would be our downfall. Doc proved them wrong, but now he is demonstrating that they did have a point - that if our team is reduced to 7-8 men it is not nearly as good as when we play 10-11 men.

The extra bodies keep up the defensive pressure which results in easy baskets. Easy baskets have been few and far between since Doc decided to tinker with a successful formula.

[mr_sunshine]

The Hawks took 15 more FT then the Celts, and made 19 more.

So in short, the Hawks made more FT then the Celtics took, which is incredible.

Cause they didnt call the pushes on ATL, they didnt call the touches, it was crap.

Look at a friggen shot chart. The Celtics blew easy layup after layup. They took too many outside shots, had no ball movement or cutters, and no one drove to the hole. What's pathetic is none of the things I just mentioned happened whatsoever! Also, you can shave about 10 of those attempts off at the end because they created by intentional fouls.

[kingjaffyjoe]

We're going to win game 5 at home.

yea and thats what EVERYONE said about game 4, lets just say this, if the hawks win wensday, the series is over

[ParticleMan]

but it's our bench that's killed us so far. we haven't been able to hold a lead with the 2nd unit. cassell has been awful, and nobody else is stepping up. this was supposed to be what sam cassell was brought here for but he's sucking big time.

[GreenGrizz]

Start PJ Brown and bench Perk.

[canman1971]

Start PJ Brown and bench Perk.

Have you seen him play this series? He has been terrible.

[GreenGrizz]

PJ Brown played well for Chicago last year in the playoffs. I really don't think Perk is the answer. He may be able to bring energy off the bench.

[The Corey's]

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Look at a friggen shot chart. The Celtics blew easy layup after layup. They took too many outside shots, had no ball movement or cutters, and no one drove to the hole. What's pathetic is none of the things I just mentioned happened whatsoever! Also, you can shave about 10 of those attempts off at the end because they created by intentional fouls.

what is the point your trying to make?

cause i made a point that rondo him self was missing lay up after lay up like 15 pages ago.

intentional fouls or not, the hawks got the huge advantage with the calls, i saw one JJ miss where that dude who got in KG face pushed someone to get the rebound where JJ hit the three with no call, that is the crap im talking about.

Celts win this in 6, not worried about that, im peeved that there letting this go this far, it isnt needed.

[dinoz]

[quote="celtics543"]I feel like I just watched a playoff game from 2002. This team has turned into a bunch of chuckers. They are living and dying by the three. They have no inside game because Garnett is taking jumpers all day long and Pierce and Ray apparently have decided not to drive anymore.

Rondo I thought played pretty well tonight, and Perk seemed to give a lift, but everyone else played like they were in it for themselves. Where's the team I watched for 82 games this year. The one that made crisp passes, didn't turn the ball over, played out of this world defense, and drove to the hoop, because it certainly wasn't the one that played the Hawks tonight.

Doc needs to wake up too, Joe Johnson was killing us in the fourth and he didn't change up anything. The one time Rondo guarded Joe, he drew the charge, but then it was right back to Ray playing some turnstile defense. Also I have no idea why House played so much during the start of the fourth, that was a critical time to really put the game away and stretch the lead, and I think that had Rondo been on the floor, that would have been done. House has barely played this whole series and had no business seeing the floor.

If the Celtics come out and start chucking threes and missing free throws wednesday, like they did tonight, then the Garden is going to boo them, and rightfully so. The free throws are inexcusable, there is no reason to miss half of your free throws. Losing in a tight game hurts that much more, when you see that they missed 9 free throws, if they could've made half of them, it would have been a win.

I understand that KG is going to shoot, and that he doesn't like to play inside, but right now this team needs someone like Al Jefferson. Someone they can dump the ball to, and that can get them easy baskets inside. Pierce needs to start slashing again and forget about all the 3's, because if he's sitting out beyond the arc, and Ray is beyond the arc, and KG is around 18 feet out, then it's going to be pretty cluttered.

I still think that the Celts will take this series, but it should not be tied at 2 games apiece right now, this is a team that was under .500, and has no bench. What's going to happen if we play Orlando or Detroit, because if we play like this then we're going to be swept.[/quote]

I agree with your assessments. When Joe Johnson is torching Ray, change it up--put Rondo on him and make Joe shoot over the top.
Doc should pay heed to Tommy Heinsohn's analysis. Doc needs to grow up and stop taking staters out when the Celts are playing well. Pierce was in a groove. If he picks up a second foul, ride with Paul a bit. The idea of a second unit on the floor needs to be scrapped. Powe has showed little, BB is lost, and Cassell brings the offense to a halt. As Heinsohn says, "Doc, don't be afraid to play 7-8 guys. This is the playoffs." And--dumb foul by Pierce on the double team late and his missed layup resulted in 4 points lost. Overall, I do not hink this team has a true sense of urgency. Post game--Pierce' response was--"That's Joe Johnson--he's going to do that to you. What can you do?"

[betta1]

Guys...first of all, tough game...I think normally the Hawks would've collapsed under the two big leads C's were starting to build, especially that 3rd quarter one.

For some reason, though, this Hawks team has been awakened and energized. I don't know if it's the fact they're in the playoffs or that no one gave them a chance in hell to even win a game...ie no respect...but these guys are playing with some fire, especially at home, and it's helping keep the games competitive.

The Celtics are still the better team obviously, but people discount Atlanta's talent too quickly. You can't blame them really as most people have hardly watched or followed the Hawks much these past years and all they see is numbers and statistics when evaluating their game. Hawks fans have known all year long that this team is MUCH better than their record indicates, especially after the Bibby aquisition, and the most frustrating aspect was seeing them underperform for much of the 07-08 season.

So, for much of the national media and fans, not to mention Bostonians, it seems like a shock, and even a fluke, that the Hawks are balling with the mighty Celtics, but to us Hawks fans it's merely this team playing up their abilities.

In conclusion, I don't think it's anything the Celtics are doing wrong. Sure, they haven't always been their best these past few games, but not their worst either. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I think teams should not be concerned with seedings and numbers so much when it come playoff time and focus more on the matchups and be hungrier than the other team.

See you guys on Wednesday...the Garden will be hostile no doubt.

[mr_sunshine]

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what is the point your trying to make?

cause i made a point that rondo him self was missing lay up after lay up like 15 pages ago.

intentional fouls or not, the hawks got the huge advantage with the calls, i saw one JJ miss where that dude who got in KG face pushed someone to get the rebound where JJ hit the three with no call, that is the crap im talking about.

Celts win this in 6, not worried about that, im peeved that there letting this go this far, it isnt needed.

The point I'm making is the refs made some bad calls (I commented on them several times in the heat of the game in this thread), but they didn't really alter the outcome. The Celtics should have cruised in the 4th, but they couldn't buy a bucket. They had no semblance of an offensive regardless of whether or not the refs were calling fouls. They straight up blew it on their own.

[The Corey's]

well id agree with that, but KG shouldnt be going to the basket when your down by 6 with two minutes left, it should have started much earlier, but he missed his fair amount of short range shots tonight too.