OT: Why would Toronto trade for J. O'Neal?

[campybatman]

For their sake, I hope this is purely a rumor. Because J. O'Neal is in the last year of a $21.3M contract. Why trade for a power forward who's injury prone and soon to be thirty? Don't they've Bosh at power forward? Aren't they already working with Bargnani to play center (unless he's on the block)? I don't know, from the Raptors point of view, this is too much for too little of a return. And this could be a one-and-done season for him if an extension isn't reached this summer.

The Indiana Pacers and Jermaine O'Neal could be parting ways in the near future. The Pacers and Toronto Raptors have discussed a possible deal with O'Neal going north of the border with point guard T.J. Ford and center Rasho Nesterovic coming to Indiana, according to two people with knowledge of the situation. The deal may also include Toronto's first-round pick (No. 17) in Thursday's draft. Indianapolis Star

[meatball sub]

Well ****, now they're gonna be waaaaaay deeper than us. Goodbye division title...

[TheCelticTruth]

Well ****, now they're gonna be waaaaaay deeper than us. Goodbye division title...

lol.

i like the initiative to a certain extent, and a player like o'neal could potentially complement bosh and bargnani very well.

however, i have serious questions about o'neal's ability to bring it and stay healthy consistently. i feel as though bosh is more of an impact player at this point, and they would need to bring someone closer to him or possibly better. maybe not, but i dont feel confident in jermaine anymore.

[SonicYouth34]

They get less deep with this move, but when you're that deep....well .

I think its a good trade if JO stays healthy cause he's exactly what they need, he actually plays defense. His contract isn't that bad, it expires in 2 years so there's no liability there.

[JiriMania]

Actually I like this move from Toronto's perspctive.

TJ ford is very expendable because Calderon has become so good, . Also Rasho is awful. I assume the other player will be cap fodder.

After TJ's injury, O'neal may be the best player they get in return, which actually isn''t bad return considering normally you don't trade big for small.

I think O'Neal being traded will rejuvenate his career after a couple seasons of dissapointment and injury, and playing along side Bosh will give him less responsibility.

A Center/forward combo of O'neal and Bosh is pretty good, and I think bargnani can play some small forward. Bargnani still isn't ready to take over games, and this gives him another year to develop behind one of the better bigs in the league.

Hmmm trading for a 30 year old all-star forward to rejuvenate your franchise? Sounds familiar.

[JHTruth]

Well talks have broken down but they have to make a move for a big because Bargnani has been bust city thus far. His performance last season was absolutely awful. They have no choice but try to find another player to play next to Bosh before he hits FA again before he bolts to a franchise with an actual chance of winning. They regressed last year and it's time to take some chances..

[campybatman]

The irony here is it was a season or two ago, I don't recall exactly, that a rumor surfaced that Indiana offered J. O'Neal for Bosh straight up and Toronto promptly declined. If true, it's funny to read about this latest J. O'Neal rumor as it involves the same two franchises.

I like the deal from Indiana's point of view. Tinsley's on the block and Ford is an upgrade at the position, in my opinion. Moreover, Nesterovic is a nice addition to add depth at center. I mean Harrison has a temper issue and could be moved while Foster could opt out this summer. The Pacers can really use Nesterovic who was a good center in Minnesota and San Antonio. The first round draft pick could make or break this trade. Indiana stands to acquire the seventeenth pick to pair with their eleventh pick to possibly trade up. However, I see no reason why I would part with it if I'm Toronto. They've question marks at point guard (resigning Calderon) and shooting guard (Parker's in final year) among likely other concerns with the current roster. So, in my opinion, J. O'Neal isn't a bigger impact on their team that Bargnani can't be if he ever comes around. Because he stretches the defense with his long range perimeter shooting which allows Bosh room to work down low. I mean there are other successful starting centers in the league who can shoot from outside or they possess a perimeter game. Okur and B. Miller come to mind. Not to mention, you could see a similar problem with a tandem of Bosh and J. O'Neal that you now see in New York with Randolph and Curry.

Personally, I dislike this trade for Toronto. He [Jermaine] isn't the way to go. Still, if healthy, J. O'Neal might be motivated next season to earn a new contract.

[sully00]

At this point Toronto is getting something for nothing. T. J. Ford is just as big an injury question as J.O. and at this point he is a 8 million dollar back up PG. Bargnani is a SF and trying to have him play big mins anywhere else is going to hurt his game.

Basically this trade is getting J.O. for a draft pick they would trade just as well as use. While Ford addresses a need for IND this a pretty weak take for an All Star big man even one with the questions that are around J.O.

Even as he gets older J.O. will be a solid defender and rebounder he just isn't a primary offensive option and frankly never was. With Calderon, Bosh, and Bargnani he would be a great fit if he can finally accept his role as a 5.

The big problem for IND is that they should be able to get more for him but because of his money only teams like Toronto who don't have a ton under contract are going to be interested.

[campybatman]

At this point Toronto is getting something for nothing. T. J. Ford is just as big an injury question as J.O. and at this point he is a 8 million dollar back up PG. Bargnani is a SF and trying to have him play big mins anywhere else is going to hurt his game.

Personally, I don't see Ford and/or Nesterovic as "nothing" in this league. Also, Ford's younger than J. O'Neal. There are enough teams with a serious interest in him as a starter. And he's a more than capable starting point guard in the league when he's healthy. Also, he'll be motived to perform well for his new team, If and when Toronto does trade him. Ditto of Nesterovic. He's older than J. O'Neal but he isn't a slouch at center. Both he and Ford deserve more credit than what the general perception is of them. It isn't as if the Pacers are a contending team right now. They're simply acquiring pieces to their team to maintain a playoff level they saw last season.

Bargnani is no more a small forward than say Krstic. Bargnani doesn't have the foot speed to even think of guarding the more athletic small forwards. That's like saying Yi is a small forward. Players such as Garnett, R. Wallace and Nowitzki have shown that versatility is a good thing to evolving the forward position. All three of these players could play small forward, power forward or center. Bargnani isn't at their skills level nor is he as talented. Still, players like Bargnani and Milicic aren't "bad players" as much as it was a bad decision by management to draft them as high as they'd gone.

[sully00]

If you don't handle the ball on the perimeter and you can't bang in the post the only position you can play is SF. I don't care that he can't defend quicker SF's he can't defend PF's or Centers either. Barganani can at least use his size as an advantage at the SF spot. Call him a forward if it makes you feel better but there is no power in the dude.

I don't care how old T. J. Ford is, he career almost ends everytime he hits the floor and he is 5'11" PG in the NBA who lives off of penetration, this is like a linebacker with a broken neck. He can't shoot and he can't play defense and he is owed over 25 milllion over the next 3 seasons.

Rasho is terrible. He is a serviceable player, a decent back up making starter money. He is an average rebounder, terrible defender with a limited at best offensive game. The dude is big and reasonably coordinated and for that makes 8 mil. The nicest thing you can say about Rasho is he is expiring.

Toronto doesn't want O'Neal for 5 years from now they want him right now. They can't get a seat at the table with the frontcourt they have. As great a guy and as great as Chris Bosh has been in Toronto if they don't get him some real help over the next year they will have to deal him because he is going to walk on that option.

[dwestside]

I don't get it. Aren't O'Neal and Bosh quasi similar players? Thin framed, largely finesse, mediocre defenders that play the same position?

[campybatman]

Well, we can agree to disagree. I mean you can be Toronto and I'll be Indiana. I'm more realistic. Because J. O'Neal is what he is: A soft player who has a proneness for injuries and someone Ainge thankfully never considered prior to acquiring Garnett despite rumors to the contrary.

Indiana is doing it the right way. They're rebuilding (or retooling) the current roster so that they can at least be a playoffs team and at the same time satisfy their loyal fan base as oppose to sending the message to these same fans that they're a strict lottery team for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, the approach that Toronto could take isn't ideal for me. That is, the instant gratification trade ideas. Sometimes, they'll work in the cases of Boston and the L.A. Lakers this season. While other times it doesn't work out as in the cases of Dallas and Phoenix this season. The point is: I would prefer to rebuild gradually in the case of Indiana not having many trade assets other than players they'll want to retain. Then to take a major risk in acquiring J. O'Neal who still presents a concern surrounding his contract extension. If the Raptors can't secure his services beyond next season. What was the point of the trade? Do you or Toronto fans honestly believe that a team lead by Bosh, Calderon and J. O'Neal are enough to get by Boston, Detroit, Washington, Orlando and Cleveland during the playoffs next season? Somehow I doubt it. I wonder if J. O'Neal will even be open to this trade.

[campybatman]

I don't get it. Aren't O'Neal and Bosh quasi similar players? Thin framed, largely finesse, mediocre defenders that play the same position?

Exactly.

[s1ickd]

its actually a good trade for both teams.

the trade would most likely be Ford, Bargnani, and filler for J O'neal

Indiana gets a couple decent young pieces they can throw into the mix, as they desperately need to find pieces to build with danny granger. o'neals time there is over for sure.

toronto gets a very skilled all star big man if healthy to pair up next to Bosh. it would actually be an extremely formidable frontcourt. Both can play D, are mobile, and can shoot a mid range shot. Calderon could step up as the starter without a problem. Worst case scenario, they'll have 21 million come off the books next season and they could go after a major free agent to pair up with Bosh.

[sh00n]

Works for both teams.

Toronto gets a big man who will give some better defense down low and better rebounding. He and Bosh would make a nice pairing if JO would stay healthy. Worst case scenario, he stinks it up and/or gets injured, Toronto gets into the running for Rubio/DeRozan next year, and have 23 million in an expiring JO next season to either trade or go after Wade/LeBron in the summer.

Indiana gets a starting point guard, which lets them shop Tinsley. They get an expiring in Rasho who can give them solid play at the 5 from time to time. And if they get the 17th pick from Toronto they can package both to move up in the draft or get two nice players. I'd go with Rush and take a risk with Jordan, personally. If Jordan reaches his potential, they could be scary in a few years.

[ParticleMan]

If you don't handle the ball on the perimeter and you can't bang in the post the only position you can play is SF. I don't care that he can't defend quicker SF's he can't defend PF's or Centers either. Barganani can at least use his size as an advantage at the SF spot. Call him a forward if it makes you feel better but there is no power in the dude.

I don't care how old T. J. Ford is, he career almost ends everytime he hits the floor and he is 5'11" PG in the NBA who lives off of penetration, this is like a linebacker with a broken neck. He can't shoot and he can't play defense and he is owed over 25 milllion over the next 3 seasons.

Rasho is terrible. He is a serviceable player, a decent back up making starter money. He is an average rebounder, terrible defender with a limited at best offensive game. The dude is big and reasonably coordinated and for that makes 8 mil. The nicest thing you can say about Rasho is he is expiring.

Toronto doesn't want O'Neal for 5 years from now they want him right now. They can't get a seat at the table with the frontcourt they have. As great a guy and as great as Chris Bosh has been in Toronto if they don't get him some real help over the next year they will have to deal him because he is going to walk on that option.

spot on.

it's a bit of a panic move for both teams, but what the hell, they are both going nowhere and they have to take some chances.

i don't understand the idea of JO being a "mediocre defender". say what?? the guy is one of the best post defenders in the league. in fact, if I'm TOR, that's the main attraction in JO. Bosh is a shotblocker but can't defend the post. bargnani can't defend Yi's chair. Rasho's D basically just involves getting in the way and hoping no foul is called. JO improves them defensively in the main area they need help.

The downsides to JO are that he is injury prone (but you're trading Ford who is equally injury prone) and that he isn't a #1 option. but that's OK, they have bosh and plenty of others who can score.

As for Indy, Ford is the kind of PG they need with the large numbers of shooters they have there. They need pace and a guy who can distribute, and Tinsley isn't cutting it. They give up JO but he wasn't going to stick around anyway. It's a risk because of Ford's injury history but the franchise needs to take a risk or two. Rasho and/or Bargs are just throw-ins. Bargs at least has potential, if I was Indy I'd hold out for Bargs. Rasho is just painful, and no he was never even a serviceable center anywhere. If he was even halfway decent SA would never have let him go.

[hiphop1]

I love it for us. Toronto trades for another jump shooting big man, they will just be another soft team we run threw in the playoffs!

[Gomes3PC]

Toronto is hoping to get the Jermaine O'Neal of 3-4 years ago in this trade. Believe it or not, some NBA players pack it in when they know their team is not very good. Toronto was a playoff team last year that is bringing everyone of significance back. Perhaps moving to a team with Bosh and Calderon, O'Neal will be reawakened and start earning at least 2/3 or 3/4 of that salary he makes. Of course he is an injury risk, but so is Ford, and Ford has no starting role on the Raptors.

It's a 1-year test for the Raptors. If it doesn't work out, they got rid of Ford and will have a big contract coming off the books to make a FA splash. If it does, they found the big defensive center to play next to the softer Bosh. Unfortunately, where I see trouble coming is on offense, not D. Bosh and O'Neal love playing in the high post and taking jumpers more than going to the basket. JO or Bosh (likely the former) will have to adjust to a new style of play. JO has always had a banger himself to play with, like Foster or Harrison or Dale Davis way back when. Now he'll have to be the banger/rebounder/low post guy for Bosh, but he has the size and skill to do that. It's all a matter of whether you can get Jermaine to commit to that, as well as whether his body can handle 75 or more games playing in the low post.

[sully00]

J.O. isn't any softer than Garnett, KG just makes his jumper and O'Neal doesn't. O'Neal is a an excellent post defender, shot blocker and rebounder.

I don't see him and Bosh being a problem offensively either Bosh operates on the base line not the high post. Neither are great with their back to the basket but then again neither have gotten much of a chance to play their one on one. They should also open the lane for Toronto's slashers to get to the rim and find open looks from 3. O'Neal can be a more physical player he just can't do that and carry your offense.

[Truthiracy]

Well it is Toronto, so what do you really expect? Intelligence? That's foreign to them.