OT: Why would Toronto trade for J. O'Neal?

[Gomes3PC]

Colangelo built the Suns team, which has been pretty successful in the West. I wouldn't call him a chump or anything. He definitely does not go for defense-first, but his teams have won in the regular season at a very good clip.

[bruno sundov]

[quote="sh00n"]Works for both teams.

Toronto gets a big man who will give some better defense down low and better rebounding. WRONG

He and Bosh would make a nice pairing if JO would stay healthy.
they are the same player seperated by ten years.

Worst case scenario, he stinks it up and/or gets injured, Toronto gets into the running for Rubio/DeRozan next year, and have 23 million in an expiring JO next season to either trade or go after Wade/LeBron in the summer.CORRECT YOu are not getting LBJ or any other high end free agent.

[campybatman]

What doesn't make sense here to me is the possible inclusion of Joey Graham from Toronto. With Jorge Garbajosa being bought out, Jamario Moon is your lone small forward. For Indiana, it's odd in the sense that you already have Danny Granger who was ironically drafted in the same draft right after Graham. That one more player could be Shawne Williams then.

So the rumored deal between the Raptors and Pacers lives on, but the Raptors are trying to get a really clear picture of just how ready Jermaine O'Neal is to resume playing basketball. His recent history of injuries has them worried, but not so worried that talks are dead. The word is that this will probably go down, meaning TJ Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, Joey Graham and the 17th pick in Thursday's draft head to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal and maybe one more player.

Everything is hinging upon O'Neal's health, and perhaps the Raptors wanting a little sweeter deal. More on this story as it develops.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9204

[tombattor]

It's a good move for the Raptors. They don't need TJ Ford because of Calderon and as good as Bosh is, his D is pretty suspect. On the other hand, JO gives them another big time interior scorer and a very good defender inside. JO and Bosh will be a handful for any team. You add those guys to Bargnani and they have a huge front court with 3 guys who can score that creates all kinds of matchup problems.

It's obvious that they're not going to be a big time player next year with the current roster, so this is potentially a great move. If I were the Raptors, I'd get it done ASAP.

[bruno sundov]

[quote="tombattor"] On the other hand, JO gives them another big time interior scorer and a very good defender inside. JO and Bosh will be a handful for any team. You add those guys to Bargnani and they have a huge front court with 3 guys who can score that creates all kinds of matchup problems.

I would have to say that JO does not score anymore nevermind from close to the basket. I think in JO,Bosh and Bargnani, you just have 3 like players. Where is the banger that scores for insdie when you really need a hoop. I haven't seen JO score from the inside consistantly sine nut job there, RON RON left.

[tombattor]

I would have to say that JO does not score anymore nevermind from close to the basket. I think in JO,Bosh and Bargnani, you just have 3 like players. Where is the banger that scores for insdie when you really need a hoop. I haven't seen JO score from the inside consistantly sine nut job there, RON RON left.

Well, he's not putting up monster numbers he did a while ago, but he can still score. And on the Raptors, he won't be their #1 option on offense.

But more than that, the Raptors' 2 big front court guys, Bargnani and Bosh, are both offensive players. Even when JO isn't doing much on offense, he's a big time defensive player. His greatest value to the Raptors may just be on the defensive end and he's only 29.

IMO, this is a risk worth taking because they really aren't losing anyone they can't afford to lose. And if it works out, they can potentially be a big time player in the East, otherwise, they'll just be an "also-ran" they were this past year.

[campybatman]

You add those guys to Bargnani and they have a huge front court with 3 guys who can score that creates all kinds of matchup problems.

The thing is... Andrea Bargnani isn't a small forward so you can't expect Toronto to be able to start all three. One will come off the bench, Bargnani.

This writer echoes some of the things I'd pointed out about him in a previous post.

Crosshair: Andrea Bargnani

Posted by Arsenalist on May 10, 2008

In Europe with Benetton Treviso his rebounding average was 2.0, 5.4 and 7.1, not exactly great rebounding numbers for a center, so its almost unfair to expect him to improve on those in the NBA. He is by every account a finesse player that has shown that he can’t be counted on to bang the defensive boards. His pathetic (and that is the appropriate word) 3.7 rebounds are shocking but not surprising, they may be disappointing but not unexpected. The desire to rebound can’t be taught, it has to come from within, a player has to want to get in to the paint, use elbows, box-out, be physical and snatch one away from the would-be offensive rebounder. In addition to lacking the technique to rebound, Bargnani also lacks the desire which makes him a complete non-factor on the boards. When your starting center is that soft on the boards, the production from everybody else on the frontline and the team has to be outstanding to make up for his deficiency. Although Bosh did his best to pick up the slack, we don’t have nearly enough physical down-and-dirty type players that can compensate for the rebounding hole left by Bargnani.

In my humble opinion playing him at center isn’t asking much from him. Yes, technically speaking its not the position he played in Europe but is it really that much different than a power forward? In the NBA the job description for a PF and a C is practically the same, there’s not nearly enough differences to say that Bargnani would’ve been more effective at the PF. I find that excuse for his play to be very lame and a sign of clutching on to straws to justify his performance. If he wants to play in the NBA, it’ll have to be at the 4/5 spots, doesn’t matter which one. The one position he can’t play is the small forward as Sam Mitchell’s ill-timed and failed experiment in the playoffs showed. Bargnani just doesn’t have the lateral quickness to keep up with the athletic NBA SFs who can expoit him at will.

We have seen glimpses of what he might be able to do if he uses all his tools to full effect, plays with a high level of intensity and decides to be a factor on the glass. You might be able to see signs of greatness in him mainly because of his versatility but similar signs could also be seen in Kwame Brown. It might be too early to group Bargnani with Brown but unless he shows the Raptors that he’s more than an average three-point shooter, he’s going to end up being a bust like Brown. Bryan Colangelo jumping the gun and picking him #1 in the draft didn’t help Bargnani and it was unfair to him. There is a zero chance that he’ll be the best player coming out of the ‘06 draft and we should all accept that and move on. Hating on Bargnani for being the #1 pick never made sense to me, its not like he chose to go #1, it was Colangelo that incorrectly deemed him worthy of being a top selection. Colangelo went out of his way to draft Bargnani and against conventional wisdom so if Bargnani ends up being a disappointment, blame the GM well before you point to the player.

Personally, I’d settle for Bargnani being a Mehmet Okur type player.

http://arsenalist.com/2008/05/10/crossh ... -bargnani/

[campybatman]

IMO, this is a risk worth taking because they really aren't losing anyone they can't afford to lose.

Ford and Nesterovic, yes. But, I disagree that they can afford to lose Graham. But, I guess it depends on how much more Toronto values Moon over him. That is, if Graham's actually part of this potential trade.

[campybatman]

Toronto will live to regret this. I personally wouldn't have traded for J. O'Neal. I can't wait to read the reactions from Raptor fans tomorrow.

Ford's a steal for Indiana.

[greenbeans]

that you Larry???^^^

[bruno sundov]

I
But more than that, the Raptors' 2 big front court guys, Bargnani and Bosh, are both offensive players. Even when JO isn't doing much on offense, he's a big time defensive player. His greatest value to the Raptors may just be on the defensive end and he's only 29.

IMO, this is a risk worth taking because they really aren't losing anyone they can't afford to lose. And if it works out, they can potentially be a big time player in the East, otherwise, they'll just be an "also-ran" they were this past year.

If he can still play D like you think then it does make sense. I don't care what TOR does as long as they are still worse than us at the end of the day. JO anchoring the Defense. i have o think about that one. It's a good point though.

I thought he played his best D with psycho RON RON next to him.

[campybatman]

Does anyone know what the odds makers have on J. O'Neal lasting an entire season versus not?

[freakon0mics]

The success of this trade for the Raptors depends on JO staying healthy. I think this move was a desperate move by the Raptors to get better now. You have to evaluate the players you are trading for. One of the biggest things to look at is injury history. I have no problem talent wise with JO because he's an alright offensive player but a great defender. The talent will be there but can the player be healthy enough to play a significant amount of games and contribute matters the most.

[Acer]

All good points, but:

I find this talk about injuries hilarious coming from a fan base of a team whose sole deep threat is a guy who will probably break down next season (Jesus).

How about you re-sign Posey and deal him to us for Kapano? Fair trade.

[MoBSTa]

Well it's done, now what will Larry do with the #17?

[campybatman]

I find this talk about injuries hilarious coming from a fan base of a team whose sole deep threat is a guy who will probably break down next season (Jesus).

How about you re-sign Posey and deal him to us for Kapano? Fair trade.

How about Boston resigns Posey and your team can trade Kapono back to Miami?

While you're at it, why not actually watch some Celtics games before you talk ignorantly. For your information, Boston featured this season more than one player with outside range. Pierce, House, Posey, Scalabrine, Pruitt, Cassell and Ray Allen. All of them possess three-point range and perimeter range inside the arc. Heck, even Rondo made some three-point shots during the playoffs. Yeah, the only thing that'll slow Ray down isn't an injury but that heavy NBA championship ring that he'll receive soon. By the way, Ray's thirty-two soon to be thirty-three. That isn't that old for a player that knows how to take care of his body and what to eat and remains in excellent shape. No, he isn't an iron man like Pierce and Garnett. But, he doesn't have the injury history of J. O'Neal either. Ray Allen could be forty and still average near twenty points a game just off of jump shots.

[Feed Your Head]

All good points, but:

I find this talk about injuries hilarious coming from a fan base of a team whose sole deep threat is a guy who will probably break down next season (Jesus).

How about you re-sign Posey and deal him to us for Kapano? Fair trade.

Why is it likely that Ray will break down? He was healthy this year and takes great care of his body.

As for saying he in our only outside threat, try watching the team as all these players can shoot from deep
Pierce
Posey
House
Pruitt
Cassell

As for the trade if JO is healthy its pretty good for both teams. It doesnt really affect us though because we are obviously the far superior team and like Bove said, they still cant beat us in a series. They should win about 45-48 games and compete for a 3-5 seed though, JO is a good compliment to Bosh as he is a very good defender and plays lower in the post than Bosh.

They need to be smart in FA because as of now they have awful depth.

[Acer]

Those other "3 point threats" are laughable.

With Ray you were 5th in the league in 3 pt %. Without him you are in the mid 20's. Good luck depending on Eddie House to provide some scoring from outside next year.

[Feed Your Head]

Those other "3 point threats" are laughable.

With Ray you were 5th in the league in 3 pt %. Without him you are in the mid 20's. Good luck depending on Eddie House to provide some scoring from outside next year.

Why would we depend on House when we have Pierce and Ray?

Ray from 3 last year .398%
Pierce from 3 last year .392%
Posey from 3 last year .380%
House from 3 last year .393%

And they all did it on atleast 279 threes attempted.

What exactly about that is laughable again? You should try to look at stats before you say things you are flat out wrong about.

You still havent said why Ray will probably get hurt next year, it sounded more like you were hoping because you know they only way the Raps finish within 10 games of the Celts is injuries to the Celts.

[campybatman]

Whoever this Toronto poster is. This person's obviously one of those outside fans who harbors sour grapes this season due to their team not making the playoffs after winning the division title and having the head coach of the year last season. A prime example of a fan who's resentful and jealous of another team's success and embarrassed of their own team's failures and ineptitude.