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Bill Walker is a Celtic

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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#121 » by jbs » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:58 pm

TheSheriff wrote:
jbs wrote:What position will he play in the NBA: SF og SG? Is he big enough to play SF?


He is 6'6", so he should be tall enough. Though if someone could find his standing reach that would be a better indicator.


Walker doesn't seem to be on this measurement list from Draftexpress:
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#122 » by ICanOutreboundWalter » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:00 am

Walker has huge upside (honestly, I know he's a risk and that's why I'm not against the teams who passed on him in the first round. But the second?)

I just worry that some of you guys are billing him up way too high right now. JR Giddens still has a much better chance of making contributions to the Celtics than Bill Walker does. But sure, Walker has the upside.

The nice thing is, I thought we had nothing set up for our future. Now, if everything turns out 100% positive, we actually have a roster for the future, too: Rondo-Giddens-Walker-Powe-Perkins. Obviously, for that lineup to be a playoff contender, those guys need a lot of time to develop and a lot of breaks to go their way. But its nice that we have a Bill Walker that we can root for and watch develop, even though we are in win-now mode still.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#123 » by billfromBoston » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:26 am

Gomes3PC wrote:Please, PLEASE be patient with this kid. He is nowhere near NBA ready defensively, nor is his passing and jumpshot there with any consistency. As a role player, defense, passing, and jumpshooting are often what get you on the court.

When Walker is in the game, I think he needs to get plays called specifically for him. JR Giddens can be an effective player off the ball for us right now, but I don't think Walker can. Luckily, Bill and Pierce have similar games, so hopefully we can just use some of PP's plays to get Walker good looks in the paint when Paul needs a breather. Even with that, I don't expect more than 10 MPG from Walker, and a stint in the D-League for a little bit would not surprise me at all. This kid needs minutes to work on some aspects of his game, while I think overall he should stay up for most of the time so he can learn under Thibodeau.

Walker since the start of Big XII play:
16.6 PPG, (120-250 FG; 48%), 24-75 3PT FG (32%), 51-69 FT (74%), 5.9 RPG, 1.9 APG, 2.2 TO/G

If he cuts down on his 3 point shooting, I think he can be a far more efficient scorer right away. The horrible A/TO ratio is concerning but he's really young and most freshmen wings have A/TO ratios under 1. I just wish he'd have more than 2 APG considering how many times he and Beasley were handling the rock.


...the team is going to send him overseas for at least next season...he's not ready to contribute right now and Boston doesn't have roster spots nor playing time to develop him...forget about him for now, you won't be seeing him in green for at least a year, maybe more...

Very nice pickup though...he's not a good enough shooter/passer right now to be effective offensively, but he's got great physical tools and is a hard-working kid...he'll improve over the next 2-3 seasons and if he stays healthy he will be ready to contribute at the 3 right when the team will need somebody to take some of the burden from Pierce...has the potential to be as good a player as Jason Richardson IMO, another athlete who had no jumper coming into the league...but it'll take Walker time to be a player...and the constant injuries haven't done him favors developmentally...
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#124 » by billfromBoston » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:51 am

ICanOutreboundWalter wrote:Walker has huge upside (honestly, I know he's a risk and that's why I'm not against the teams who passed on him in the first round. But the second?)

I just worry that some of you guys are billing him up way too high right now. JR Giddens still has a much better chance of making contributions to the Celtics than Bill Walker does. But sure, Walker has the upside.

The nice thing is, I thought we had nothing set up for our future. Now, if everything turns out 100% positive, we actually have a roster for the future, too: Rondo-Giddens-Walker-Powe-Perkins. Obviously, for that lineup to be a playoff contender, those guys need a lot of time to develop and a lot of breaks to go their way. But its nice that we have a Bill Walker that we can root for and watch develop, even though we are in win-now mode still.


...honestly, if things work out and all these guys stay healthy I think that the young core of Perk/Powe/Walker/Giddens/Rondo is a playoff team themselves 5-6 years from now...they are a little short on perimeter shooting with that group, so Giddens/Walker would really have to improve that element of their game, but its a blue-collar core with some explosive scoring ability, stout defense at every position, and quality rebounding...they may not have the greatest individual talent at each position, but collectively they could be a Pistons-like group...

This is MASS speculation and years from being even a possibility, but I like the idea of 5 highly talented players and complementary positions who can grow in a championship contending environment and learn from HoF players---this is how the Celtics Dynasty was originally built...keep the pipeline going and manage the highs and lows so you don't every hit rock bottom to rebuild, you just re-load...
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#125 » by TheCelticTruth » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:05 am

billfromBoston wrote:...the team is going to send him overseas for at least next season...and the constant injuries haven't done him favors developmentally...


overseas huh? really?

and do you have any industry insight into how significant or permanent of an impact walker's injuries have made to his ideal athletic condition?
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#126 » by billfromBoston » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:14 am

he looked fine in Chicago working out...the recent tweak shouldn't be a major setback
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#127 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:46 am

billfromBoston wrote:
...the team is going to send him overseas for at least next season...he's not ready to contribute right now and Boston doesn't have roster spots nor playing time to develop him...forget about him for now, you won't be seeing him in green for at least a year, maybe more...

Very nice pickup though...he's not a good enough shooter/passer right now to be effective offensively, but he's got great physical tools and is a hard-working kid...he'll improve over the next 2-3 seasons and if he stays healthy he will be ready to contribute at the 3 right when the team will need somebody to take some of the burden from Pierce...has the potential to be as good a player as Jason Richardson IMO, another athlete who had no jumper coming into the league...but it'll take Walker time to be a player...and the constant injuries haven't done him favors developmentally...


That's what I was thinking.

But unless the Cs sign him to a real contract one year from now, is there any reason to think they have any advantage in signing him over the 29 teams that didn't draft him?
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#128 » by DEEP3CL » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:53 am

DAMN.......................talk about luck. OK guys level with me who planted the clovers around Danny's crib ? lololololo !

Seriously Bill is a serious talent. I remember when him and OJ came to L.A. to play in a big time high school tournament, everybody was raving about OJ and he was the reason the place was jammed pack.
But Bill was the one who put on the show.

But damn Danny was lucky.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#129 » by billfromBoston » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:13 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
billfromBoston wrote:
...the team is going to send him overseas for at least next season...he's not ready to contribute right now and Boston doesn't have roster spots nor playing time to develop him...forget about him for now, you won't be seeing him in green for at least a year, maybe more...

Very nice pickup though...he's not a good enough shooter/passer right now to be effective offensively, but he's got great physical tools and is a hard-working kid...he'll improve over the next 2-3 seasons and if he stays healthy he will be ready to contribute at the 3 right when the team will need somebody to take some of the burden from Pierce...has the potential to be as good a player as Jason Richardson IMO, another athlete who had no jumper coming into the league...but it'll take Walker time to be a player...and the constant injuries haven't done him favors developmentally...


That's what I was thinking.

But unless the Cs sign him to a real contract one year from now, is there any reason to think they have any advantage in signing him over the 29 teams that didn't draft him?


...Boston holds his rights...its not an open-bidding process...he can go overseas for the next two years and Boston still holds his rights...
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#130 » by Vino313 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:31 am

That's what I was thinking.

But unless the Cs sign him to a real contract one year from now, is there any reason to think they have any advantage in signing him over the 29 teams that didn't draft him?


...Boston holds his rights...its not an open-bidding process...he can go overseas for the next two years and Boston still holds his rights...


Just to add to BFB's point, this from Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#42

42. What if the team and player can't agree to a contract? What options does the player have? How long does the team keep his draft rights?

The player's options are limited. What happens depends on a number of factors:
If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player's draft rights for one year after the player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in the team's team salary while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.


If the player was still eligible to play in college before he was drafted, the team retains the player's draft rights until the draft the player would have entered had he not left college early. For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2005, they retain his draft rights until the date of the 2007 draft. Note that the current NCAA rules state that players lose their NCAA eligibility if they are drafted, so the player could not return or go on to play college ball.

For all other players, the team retains the player's draft rights until the date of the next draft.

In any of the above cases, if the team does not sign the player in the allotted time, the player can enter the next draft. If the team that selects the player in the next draft doesn't sign him either, he becomes a rookie free agent.


Since Walker was a redshirt freshman this previous season at KSU, this means that the Celtics own his draft rights until draft night 2011 whether he goes overseas or not. So if they push him toward playing overseas for a year to get minutes and free up a roster spot and he doesn't want to, there's really not a lot he can do about it other than go home and sit on his couch for 3 years.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#131 » by ryaningf » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:39 am

BillfromBoston,

Are you saying you THINK the C's want to send Walker overseas for a year or two of season, or are you saying that you KNOW the C's intend to send Walker overseas for a year or two of seasoning? Why not send him to the NBDL instead where they could recall him if somebody gets hurt?

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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#132 » by billfromBoston » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:44 am

...D-League still takes up a roster spot and you still have to pay the salary...I think they value him enough to do this if they can't place him overseas, but their first option would be to send him to Europe...its better competition and better for fundamental development with its emphasis on practice and team play...
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#133 » by ryaningf » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:58 am

I understand the salary implications, but I think Walker would develop faster and better in the NBDL and at the feet of Paul Pierce than he would in Europe. I'm also skeptical about the C's ability to convince Walker and his agent to go to Europe. He goes over there, hurts the knee again, and then what? If and only if the money is substantial in Europe would Walker and his agent consider going. What do you know about the market in Europe these days? Could Walker make the equivalent in Euros that he might make on a 2 to 3 year second round deal here in the NBA? Unless the C's can place him with a European team and he's getting comparable money, I think the Europe idea is wishful thinking. And I also tend to think that a healthy Bill Walker could help this team next year, especially if injuries creep in. What are the chances we make it through another season without a major injury (Pollard not withstanding)? I'd say those chances are less than 50%. Let's keep him here and see if he can make the 12-man roster and practice each day against the master--Paul Pierce. If not, then let him hone his craft in the NBDL.

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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#134 » by GuyClinch » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:38 am

I am skeptical too. The guy that is going to develop overseas is the turk they drafted. They have plenty of roster spots.. I don't see what calculation could conclude we don't have roster spots. We have hardly anyone signed..

Brown, Cassell, Posey, House, TA are all not signed yet and we only added 1 new guy (guaranteed) and Walker. That's still 3 spots.

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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#135 » by JediSkyWalker » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:41 am

The player who I wanted all along, I knew Ainge read my mind.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#136 » by armageddon » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:50 am

With all respect, you don't send a 20 year old US player to a foreign country to play ball against a bunch of men who don't give a **** about you. No way he develops over there. He's good enough to get playing time on many teams not named Celtics and if his agent is any good, he'll force a trade first.
They handled Pruitt nicely and with respect last year. I'd assume they'd do the same here. $400K and the 15th roster spot, not a big deal. But first they need to get those knees ready to play.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#137 » by buckner1976 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:28 am

yeah im not sure where this "send bill overseas" business came from either. ive read or heard nothing from ainge suggesting he plans to do this for walker nor nothing from the walker camp even suggesting he would do this. walker was certain he had a promise from someone in the 1st rnd. as a previous poster mentioned he plans to have surgery in july and be back on the court before the end of august. this does NOT sound like a kid whos eyeing europe right now at all. this sounds like someones unilateral wetdream. at worst he gets some time in the dleague like pruitt did last year but i would not be surprised to see him on the sidelines with the team and at least practicing with everybody.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#138 » by 15th overall » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:31 am

The competition may be better in Europe, but would the celts really have any say in how a euro club would utilize him? I'd be wicked pissed if he just rode the pine somewhere in the Baltics for 2 years.

I say sign the kid and glue him to Paul Pierce.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#139 » by eris » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:33 am

armageddon wrote:With all respect, you don't send a 20 year old US player to a foreign country to play ball against a bunch of men who don't give a **** about you. No way he develops over there. He's good enough to get playing time on many teams not named Celtics and if his agent is any good, he'll force a trade first.
They handled Pruitt nicely and with respect last year. I'd assume they'd do the same here. $400K and the 15th roster spot, not a big deal. But first they need to get those knees ready to play.

I too will be surprised if Billfromboston is right on this one. It might, or might not, be a good idea to send Walker overseas to play, but I have a hard time believing it is going to happen.

OTOH, from the contract wording posted above, it is possible that Walker could play in the NBDL *without* without taking up a roster slot on the Celtics. If the C's don't actually *sign* him, but do help place him with an NBDL team he could play there for a year without taking a roster spot and the C's could still sign him prior to the day of the 2009 draft. The money might not be good, and Walker might not go for it.

No, I think when Danny talked about Billy being better than he's every been with proper organization, development and rehab he meant it. What I think Walker gets this year is the Perkins' Plan. I for see for Walker, lots of work with the trainers rehabing and strengthening those knees and the rest of his body plus lots of work with assistant coaches on the fundamentals of dribbling, passing and shooting, interspersed with stints in the NBDL like Gabe got.
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Re: Bill Walker is a Celtic 

Post#140 » by ParticleMan » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:29 am

Walker will learn a lot more in the NBDL than overseas, competition aside. The C's can send coaches there to work with him. NBDL coaches are willing to implement some of the C's playbook. It's really a much better situation for development. Hence the term "development league". Overseas, PT is much more based on seniority. If Walker is going to sit on the pine I'd rather have him do it in Boston, practicing against the big boys.

I don't think the $500k salary or the roster spot is an issue. We've got spots, with most of our FA's probably not coming back. And Wyc has made it clear money is not a big issue. A 2nd round pick doesn't exactly break the bank. I'd just rather sign him, in fact for 3 years if possible. Gives him better security, gives us an extra year of development and Bird Rights in the unlikely but not impossible case he actually fulfills his full potential.

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