Bill Walker is a Celtic

[LongTimeFan]

I think it might have a lot to do with whether we can get Posey to sign for less than the MLE.

DA likes to do the 3 year deal at minimum with Celtic options on the 2nd round pick. That way after we invest two years in their developement (Looks like Walker has about that) we have a serious asset like Powe or Gomes.

The three year deal comes out of the MLE. If we can't do the three year deal this year, we can still keep his Bird rights alive by sending him overseas. Maybe next year we'll have MLE available for the deal.

I think the Baby situation is going to work out fine. Baby's weight issue is like Perk's. It's going to to take years to address. It will be years before Baby is serious asset. (Baby has the typical two year deal. We ran out of MLE.)

I agree with Bill on the dynasty building. Red always had the pipline stoked. Bias brought the system crashing down.

[billfromBoston]

I think it might have a lot to do with whether we can get Posey to sign for less than the MLE.

DA likes to do the 3 year deal at minimum with Celtic options on the 2nd round pick. That way after we invest two years in their developement (Looks like Walker has about that) we have a serious asset like Powe or Gomes.

The three year deal comes out of the MLE. If we can't do the three year deal this year, we can still keep his Bird rights alive by sending him overseas. Maybe next year we'll have MLE available for the deal.

I think the Baby situation is going to work out fine. Baby's weight issue is like Perk's. It's going to to take years to address. It will be years before Baby is serious asset. (Baby has the typical two year deal. We ran out of MLE.)

I agree with Bill on the dynasty building. Red always had the pipline stoked. Bias brought the system crashing down.

..LTF nailed it...everyone keeps talking about "giving Walker 3 years" but that requires MLE money and ALL of that money is ear-marked for Posey, if that's what it takes to sign him.

If Posey doesn't re-sign, then the nature of this off-season changes...however, Bill Walker is not ready to contribute a vital role off the bench for a team looking to contend. Yes, he is ready to play in the NBA now, on a marginal team looking to develop talent. But he's not going to fill Posey's shoes and if Posey is on the team next year there is precious little playing time available for "sky" Walker.

The only way the team gets to sign Walker to one of those 3-year deals if if Posey leaves enough for them to do so--I doubt Posey is going to take less than the total MLE, its going to be years he sacrifices, not a couple hundred thousand so Bill Walker can be on his team.

I LOVE Bill Walker's potential and I think he'll end up fulfilling that potential in time, but its in the teams best interest to accelerate his development as much as possible. The D-league is a more hands-on approach because of proximity, but the level of competition is less and the drilling and practice time is not as focused on skill development. The one main advantage is physical training and access to the best athlete medical attention. But there is very little playing time, little practice time,and little time for one-to-one attention during the grueling regular season...after training camp, Walker would mostly be watching and listening in practice/games and then going and playing fast-and-loose basketball in the D-league.

Bottom line, if Posey stays Boston won't be getting the 3 year control over Walker they'd desire and won't be able to maximize his individual development. They'll do it if they are compelled to, as someone pointed out, Walker has to agree to such as situation first. But 2nd round picks don't "force trades" and Walker has little leverage in this deal. Add to that the value of the Euro-almost 2 to 1-and the level of player Walker is viewed at from a talent standpoint, and you are looking at a player who can get 250 euros a season to play overseas and that's AFTER tax, with an apartment and transportation provided to him.

Walker will make MORE money going abroad, will play a higher level of competition, and will get more playing time and be drilled harder in the fundamentals of the game...

...there are still a ton of things that have to happen before this off-season shapes up...Walker could well be on the roster come TC, i'm certain the team will accomidate him if he doesn't play internationally...but that is certainly their first option considering the other higher priorities the team is dealing with..

[billfromBoston]

With all respect, you don't send a 20 year old US player to a foreign country to play ball against a bunch of men who don't give a **** about you. No way he develops over there. He's good enough to get playing time on many teams not named Celtics and if his agent is any good, he'll force a trade first.
They handled Pruitt nicely and with respect last year. I'd assume they'd do the same here. $400K and the 15th roster spot, not a big deal. But first they need to get those knees ready to play.

...there are often 2-3 other young American players on these rosters...he won't be isolated...and they aren't going to send him to a bad situations...they'll try and find something that gives him the support to grow..

[Gomes3PC]

One other thing I don't think makes Walker a good Euro candidate is that his game does not translate well to the international rules. He plays physical and lacks a jumper, both of which are not conducive to the more free-flowing, jumpshooting nature of international basketball. I think he would struggle mightily to earn playing time on any decent Euroleague team, and if he isn't playing in the Euroleague he should just stay here and play in the NBDL or ride pine in the NBA and learn from PP and Thibodeau.

The biggest thing he needs is time to develop his jumper and reduce his turnovers. I think he can do that in the NBDL, so long as the coach he plays for does not let him just attack the basket at will. We already know he can do that at an NBA level, and in the NBDL he could score 15-20 a game just by doing that, but to become a good NBA player he's got to learn to do much more than that.

Even if we re-sign Posey, House, and Allen, we can keep Walker:

PG: Rondo, Pruitt, House
SG: Allen, Giddens, Allen
SF: Pierce, Posey, Walker
PF: KG, Powe, Scal
C: Perk, Baby, FA/Pollard

Even as the 15th man on the bench, he'll learn by being around his championship teammates. And if PP or Posey ever went down, he could get some minutes at the 3 to give us some slashing/scoring punch.

[celticfan42487]

Well the rules being against the type of player that he is might help him by forcing him to focus on his weaknesses to succeed. That said, idk if I want to take the chance and have him loose his killer instinct to attack the rim without regard.

Players that attack the basket at will are worth their weight in gold in the NBA. I'd almost be just as happy if he only developed his slashing ability on offense and focused everything else on defense.

[LongTimeFan]

Another thing in this speculation was DA's assertion that they wouldn't draft anyone unless he was willing to play overseas for a year. We have that kind of juice now that we are the world champs.

Stowing Walker overseas for a year isn't ideal, but signing Posey and stowing and getting the Bird rights next year (when we don't have a pick) is better than either signing Posey and not getting the Bird rights or not signing Posey and getting Walker's Bird rights this year.

Really fair is fair. Pruitt should get a run this year. Gidden is a first round pick. He should get a shot, too. Walker is pretty low on the pecking order with his surgery and questionable knees.

[hiphop1]

Another thing in this speculation was DA's assertion that they wouldn't draft anyone unless he was willing to play overseas for a year. We have that kind of juice now that we are the world champs.

Stowing Walker overseas for a year isn't ideal, but signing Posey and stowing and getting the Bird rights next year (when we don't have a pick) is better than either signing Posey and not getting the Bird rights or not signing Posey and getting Walker's Bird rights this year.

Really fair is fair. Pruitt should get a run this year. Gidden is a first round pick. He should get a shot, too. Walker is pretty low on the pecking order with his surgery and questionable knees.

I think that quote was ment for if we picked Batum or Ibaka.

[UGA Hayes]

Man I hope we don't give Posey the full exception, He had an awesome playoff but he sucked during the regular season and is closer to the end than people might realize.

[LongTimeFan]

http://www.82games.com/0708/07BOS8C.HTM

Surprisingly, I think his performance was not that good during the regular season.

DA will figuire it.

[billfromBoston]

One other thing I don't think makes Walker a good Euro candidate is that his game does not translate well to the international rules. He plays physical and lacks a jumper, both of which are not conducive to the more free-flowing, jumpshooting nature of international basketball. I think he would struggle mightily to earn playing time on any decent Euroleague team, and if he isn't playing in the Euroleague he should just stay here and play in the NBDL or ride pine in the NBA and learn from PP and Thibodeau.

The biggest thing he needs is time to develop his jumper and reduce his turnovers. I think he can do that in the NBDL, so long as the coach he plays for does not let him just attack the basket at will. We already know he can do that at an NBA level, and in the NBDL he could score 15-20 a game just by doing that, but to become a good NBA player he's got to learn to do much more than that.

Even if we re-sign Posey, House, and Allen, we can keep Walker:

PG: Rondo, Pruitt, House
SG: Allen, Giddens, Allen
SF: Pierce, Posey, Walker
PF: KG, Powe, Scal
C: Perk, Baby, FA/Pollard

Even as the 15th man on the bench, he'll learn by being around his championship teammates. And if PP or Posey ever went down, he could get some minutes at the 3 to give us some slashing/scoring punch.

...this is the legit concern that may very well limit the options that Walker has overseas...however, not very many foreign teams have access to outstanding scouting of US players, so the name value and promise of talent should land him some offers...I also agree with what LTF said, in that it may serve Walker well to be forced to adapt his game and work on things he's not as good at...the Celtics aren't worried about whether he plays 15mpg or 35, they just want him off their books and in good hands developmentally...the NBA game is all about PT, the Int'l game is all about practice and skill development...

We'll see what happens...

[armageddon]

It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. NYK's had a second rounder last year that refused to go to Europe and they didn't have a roster spot for him, so the ended up trading him. The precedence has already been set.

There will be more roster changes and possibly some thinning. They might need Walker just to complete a 12 man roster. Still a long ways from training camp.

This has turned into a good post.

[P2]

No way Walker will be sent to Europe. His body and basketball IQ allow him to play in the NBA right now. I bet he'll end up getting minutes like Baby did last season.

[DynastyInTheMaking]

Between Posey, House, TA and Cassell I dont see how we can more than 2 of those guys back. I think House is as good as gone for about 3 yrs/10 mill elsewhere. I think Posey will get more money and longevity elsewhere but may take a bit of a discount from us. TA can probably get more money from another team and Cassell could probably land a starting gig in Denver or so.

If only one of these guys return theres room for Walker and Giddens.

Hypothetically speaking lets say we only resign Posey and then sign people along the lines of Tyronn Lue and Zo. Of course Zo would mean PJ retire and Pollard didnt come back.

Rondo/Lue/Pruitt
Allen/Giddens
Pierce/Posey/Walker
KG/Powe/Scal
Perk/Zo/Big Baby

That would leave one roster spot open for a discounted TA or House. Maybe they take it, maybe they don't.

Obviously what we want next year is for Pruitt to emerge as the backup PG and for Giddens, Walker, Powe and Davis to make it very clear that we dont need vets, we are fine with them. This bench could resemble Detroit from this past year, which would be a great thing.


Also what incentive does an international team have to take an american player for one year? I have never heard of a team sending an american born player over to Europe for a year in order to "develop". It's not about developing for us, it would be about retaining his rights and well we have the roster spot so just stick him in the D League. Why would a team sign him or someone like Brando Jennings for big money for one year when they dont really fit the international style of play and are just going to bolt after one year. It doesnt make sense to me.

[buckner1976]

Between Posey, House, TA and Cassell I dont see how we can more than 2 of those guys back. I think House is as good as gone for about 3 yrs/10 mill elsewhere. I think Posey will get more money and longevity elsewhere but may take a bit of a discount from us. TA can probably get more money from another team and Cassell could probably land a starting gig in Denver or so.

If only one of these guys return theres room for Walker and Giddens.

Hypothetically speaking lets say we only resign Posey and then sign people along the lines of Tyronn Lue and Zo. Of course Zo would mean PJ retire and Pollard didnt come back.

Rondo/Lue/Pruitt
Allen/Giddens
Pierce/Posey/Walker
KG/Powe/Scal
Perk/Zo/Big Baby

That would leave one roster spot open for a discounted TA or House. Maybe they take it, maybe they don't.

Obviously what we want next year is for Pruitt to emerge as the backup PG and for Giddens, Walker, Powe and Davis to make it very clear that we dont need vets, we are fine with them. This bench could resemble Detroit from this past year, which would be a great thing.


Also what incentive does an international team have to take an american player for one year? I have never heard of a team sending an american born player over to Europe for a year in order to "develop". It's not about developing for us, it would be about retaining his rights and well we have the roster spot so just stick him in the D League. Why would a team sign him or someone like Brando Jennings for big money for one year when they dont really fit the international style of play and are just going to bolt after one year. It doesnt make sense to me.

my thoughts exactly. this walker to europe is nonsense to me as much for that reason as it is because of what danny said after drafting these 2. these kids have some maturity issues but nothing that cant be cured with the right guidance, organization, development and mentorship around them. do not make the mistake of thinking our lockerroom didnt come into play when selecting these kids. its a great veteran core of professionals that hold themselves and each other accountable. they will hold the line and giddens and walker will fall in. the lockerroom is a great asset to have when dealing with young players. the suggestion of sending someone overseas completely negates this asset.

[GuyClinch]

Semi is the guy that will play overseas. Not Bill Walker.. <g>

[billfromBoston]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/200 ... Card-2956/

[i]Bill Walker slipped deep into the second round due to concerns regarding his knee. He has a good deal of talent, but doesn’t look very close to being able to contribute at this point in time. It will be interesting to see if the Celtics hold on to him for long enough to see whether he was worth the cash they gave the Wizards for his rights. They are reportedly shopping him overseas at the moment, trying to get him to play in Europe next season and then try and make their team next year.[\i]

This reported from someone who works directly with a number of int'l teams...if he's reporting this there is a good chance he's heard it directly from the market...Ryan Gomes was in a similar position a few years back, but played so well in SL that the team changes its mind...now, circumstances are different this year, there is no SL squad for Boston and the team is coming off a title. But, there is a chance that Walker can impress them somehow--though i dont' see how, as he's going to be rehabbing his knee for the next few weeks and probably won't be ready for game play until late July/early August...looks like pick-up games in the Celtics facility are the only thing he's got...perhaps a ridiculous commitment to working out over the off-season will sway Ainge...

It is likely however that Walker's chance to make this team this year has far more to do with the fates of Posey/House/TA and less to do with his own abilities...the team DOES like him, they wouldn't have bought his rights if they didn't...but he's not going to be a rotation player for this team unless things go very badly wrong this off-season, so why not let someone else pay for his development?

[ICanOutreboundWalter]

I find it a bit curious that you guys ask why a European team would be willing to take Walker on a one year deal. I mean, we took James Posey on a one year deal, ditto Eddie House, and they helped us to win a title. If some team abroad can do that with Walker, why not?

His game doesn't fit the international game as well, which is why I like him going over there, but he is probably above the competition athletically. Lets keep in mind that I doubt we are going to be able to send him to CSKA Moscow or any of these teams that are traditional powerhouses...Walker will probably go to a more average team, I'd guess.

On a separate issue, I was surprised to see people saying that Posey didn't play well during the regular season...but I am guessing you guys are the folks that only watch offense and zone out on defense, or don't understand defensive schemes...do I want to sign him for 5 years, no, but if he wants to sign a 2 year deal for the full MLE, sign me up.

[buckner1976]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-NBA-Draft-Report-Card-2956/

[i]Bill Walker slipped deep into the second round due to concerns regarding his knee. He has a good deal of talent, but doesn’t look very close to being able to contribute at this point in time. It will be interesting to see if the Celtics hold on to him for long enough to see whether he was worth the cash they gave the Wizards for his rights. They are reportedly shopping him overseas at the moment, trying to get him to play in Europe next season and then try and make their team next year.[\i]

This reported from someone who works directly with a number of int'l teams...if he's reporting this there is a good chance he's heard it directly from the market...Ryan Gomes was in a similar position a few years back, but played so well in SL that the team changes its mind...now, circumstances are different this year, there is no SL squad for Boston and the team is coming off a title. But, there is a chance that Walker can impress them somehow--though i dont' see how, as he's going to be rehabbing his knee for the next few weeks and probably won't be ready for game play until late July/early August...looks like pick-up games in the Celtics facility are the only thing he's got...perhaps a ridiculous commitment to working out over the off-season will sway Ainge...

It is likely however that Walker's chance to make this team this year has far more to do with the fates of Posey/House/TA and less to do with his own abilities...the team DOES like him, they wouldn't have bought his rights if they didn't...but he's not going to be a rotation player for this team unless things go very badly wrong this off-season, so why not let someone else pay for his development?

doc did say he thinks this is something teams will do more in the coming years but he didn't think anyone would do it now and didnt think players would want to go over. walkers agent sure doesnt seem to think hes going over. i do see the logic in the move. i wont debate that. but even if they keep him here theyll have roster spots for others. who says something has to go wrong this offseason though? something could go wrong during the season and they could need the extra body. to me whether he plays this year right off the bat is inconsequential. i want him learning under paul and ray right now. learning how to play this game the right way. learning the offense, picking up tricks of the trade in practice. biding his time until hes ready. i just really dont see him developing much by going overseas. to me that serves no purpose in making bill walker a BETTER player.

[buckner1976]

I find it a bit curious that you guys ask why a European team would be willing to take Walker on a one year deal. I mean, we took James Posey on a one year deal, ditto Eddie House, and they helped us to win a title. If some team abroad can do that with Walker, why not?

His game doesn't fit the international game as well, which is why I like him going over there, but he is probably above the competition athletically. Lets keep in mind that I doubt we are going to be able to send him to CSKA Moscow or any of these teams that are traditional powerhouses...Walker will probably go to a more average team, I'd guess.

On a separate issue, I was surprised to see people saying that Posey didn't play well during the regular season...but I am guessing you guys are the folks that only watch offense and zone out on defense, or don't understand defensive schemes...do I want to sign him for 5 years, no, but if he wants to sign a 2 year deal for the full MLE, sign me up.

off topic here itll be interesting to see considering the investment they just made on the wing how hard they go after posey. i mean in terms of years. if they believe(and i see no reason to doubt doc and danny on this) that jr can get minutes right now because of his defense its feasible to say that after a year in the system to learn the following year he could be ready for substantial minutes. poseys value to this team speaks for itself so we dont need to go into what he meant to this ballclub this year. but fiscally speaking, if youre danny, how long do you wanna hold off this kid, and in turn walker as well? would posey even take a 2 yr deal when he might be able to get more years and more money out on the open market?

[TheCelticTruth]

i think jr can play a role for us like stuckey played for the pistons