Bill Walker is a Celtic

[return2glory]

The reason I don't see Walker going overseas is because of the rehabbing of the knee. I'm sure he will get better rehab and attention here under the Celtics staff of medical experts and team trainers.

[Bluewhale]

One thing many missed is that we cannot enter the season with 15 players in the roster. As a favorite champion team, Ainge need to keep the roster flexible for the mid-season recruit. For example, what if Antoine Walker get cut in the February?

That means B. Walker need to impress the team very significant to make roster. If he cannot contribute now, then it's better to send him to oversea.

[armageddon]

We've seen that it takes at least half a year for the rooks to learn the defense and offense. If Walker is in another country, he will learn nothing of the C's. This means that he won't be able to contribute until late next season and it will be year 3 before we know if he's a player or not.
Also, if he's on a one year rental to a European team, they're not going to care about the long term health of his knees and will force him to practice and play with pain.
Maybe someday there will be alligences with European teams and players could be moved back and forth. This could be much better than the D-league.
Right now these teams are our competitors. There's also the outside chance that if Walker goes over, plays great, and likes the experience, we may never get him back. They would be able to offer much more money than we could.

[jfs1000d]

2 points. Walker overseas in a good spot would really help the Celtics. If they can get him in a place that will take him for a year, and let him develop, then it works perfectly. The problem with the D-League is that he has to be SIGNED and COUNTED against the 15 man roster. The best thing for Walker is to go to the D-League (since I don't think his game translates internationally as well). But, Boston doesn't want the roster.

You know what I would like to see? How about the Celtics buy a team overseas and use it to stash second round picks? They can buy a team, or go in for a major stake in a team, and then use it as a developmental tool. So, Bill Walker can go play for the Irish Celtics of the English pro league for example.

That way, we pay him money and he develops under our giuse just like they do in soccer.

I imagine the NBA wouldn't allow it, but if they did, we could start our own feeder organization in Europe.

[Barry Lird]

...
Hypothetically speaking lets say we only resign Posey and then sign people along the lines of Tyronn Lue and Zo. Of course Zo would mean PJ retire and Pollard didnt come back.

Rondo/Lue/Pruitt
Allen/Giddens
Pierce/Posey/Walker
KG/Powe/Scal
Perk/Zo/Big Baby

That would leave one roster spot open for a discounted TA or House. Maybe they take it, maybe they don't.

This would be an ideal off-season in my view. If we signed Posey, Zo, and Lue, (and either House or TA), I think we'd have a fine chance to repeat.

And as far as flexibility is concerned, if we needed another open slot to pick up possible buyouts later next season, they can either fish or cut bait with Pruitt. If he really shows something this year, keep him. If not, buy him out and open up his slot.

[billfromBoston]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-NBA-Draft-Report-Card-2956/

[i]Bill Walker slipped deep into the second round due to concerns regarding his knee. He has a good deal of talent, but doesn’t look very close to being able to contribute at this point in time. It will be interesting to see if the Celtics hold on to him for long enough to see whether he was worth the cash they gave the Wizards for his rights. They are reportedly shopping him overseas at the moment, trying to get him to play in Europe next season and then try and make their team next year.[\i]

This reported from someone who works directly with a number of int'l teams...if he's reporting this there is a good chance he's heard it directly from the market...Ryan Gomes was in a similar position a few years back, but played so well in SL that the team changes its mind...now, circumstances are different this year, there is no SL squad for Boston and the team is coming off a title. But, there is a chance that Walker can impress them somehow--though i dont' see how, as he's going to be rehabbing his knee for the next few weeks and probably won't be ready for game play until late July/early August...looks like pick-up games in the Celtics facility are the only thing he's got...perhaps a ridiculous commitment to working out over the off-season will sway Ainge...

It is likely however that Walker's chance to make this team this year has far more to do with the fates of Posey/House/TA and less to do with his own abilities...the team DOES like him, they wouldn't have bought his rights if they didn't...but he's not going to be a rotation player for this team unless things go very badly wrong this off-season, so why not let someone else pay for his development?

doc did say he thinks this is something teams will do more in the coming years but he didn't think anyone would do it now and didnt think players would want to go over. walkers agent sure doesnt seem to think hes going over. i do see the logic in the move. i wont debate that. but even if they keep him here they'll have roster spots for others. who says something has to go wrong this offseason though? something could go wrong during the season and they could need the extra body. to me whether he plays this year right off the bat is inconsequential. i want him learning under paul and ray right now. learning how to play this game the right way. learning the offense, picking up tricks of the trade in practice. biding his time until hes ready. i just really dont see him developing much by going overseas. to me that serves no purpose in making bill walker a BETTER player.

...can you provide a link to this additional information from Doc and Walker's agent?

...as far as MY opinion...I think that Walker should be glued to Pierce's side every day humanly possible for the the next 36 months...Walker has a game so similar to Pierce's when he was coming out of Kansas...Pierce was a better pull-up shooter than Walker, but lacked Walker's explosiveness attacking the basket...both play a "power 3" game though, both have/had questionable handles, and both are fiercely driven by their emotions when they play...

...I think Walker has all the tools to develop into a big-time player, the injuries are unfortunate and this last minor nic has made him seem like a major risk, but if he can get past it I think he can buckle-down, study what Pierce can do, and duplicate a great deal of it...I've seen his shooting mechanics first-hand...with work there is no-way he can't become a very efficient shooter off one or two-dribble situations and his set 3 pointer should come in time...his game is all about setting up for the slash and he doesnt' need to be an ISO player for a few years, so working pick-and-roll, catch-and-shoot, and shot-fakes for drives are simple things for him to be able to master...

...but what I want and what the team intends to do are separate issues...

[Fencer reregistered]

I haven't read the thread, so sorry if this has been posted already, but Joe Dumars says about Walker:

He likes him a lot.
Walker refused to go overseas.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=819426&p=16833395#p16833146

[Fencer reregistered]

That's what I was thinking.

But unless the Cs sign him to a real contract one year from now, is there any reason to think they have any advantage in signing him over the 29 teams that didn't draft him?

...Boston holds his rights...its not an open-bidding process...he can go overseas for the next two years and Boston still holds his rights...

Just to add to BFB's point, this from Larry Coon's CBA FAQ:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#42

42. What if the team and player can't agree to a contract? What options does the player have? How long does the team keep his draft rights?

The player's options are limited. What happens depends on a number of factors:
If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player's draft rights for one year after the player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in the team's team salary while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.


If the player was still eligible to play in college before he was drafted, the team retains the player's draft rights until the draft the player would have entered had he not left college early. For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2005, they retain his draft rights until the date of the 2007 draft. Note that the current NCAA rules state that players lose their NCAA eligibility if they are drafted, so the player could not return or go on to play college ball.

For all other players, the team retains the player's draft rights until the date of the next draft.

In any of the above cases, if the team does not sign the player in the allotted time, the player can enter the next draft. If the team that selects the player in the next draft doesn't sign him either, he becomes a rookie free agent.

Since Walker was a redshirt freshman this previous season at KSU, this means that the Celtics own his draft rights until draft night 2011 whether he goes overseas or not. So if they push him toward playing overseas for a year to get minutes and free up a roster spot and he doesn't want to, there's really not a lot he can do about it other than go home and sit on his couch for 3 years.

Good info. Thanks!

[Fencer reregistered]

yeah im not sure where this "send bill overseas" business came from either.

From Ainge saying willingness to go overseas would be a factor in who he drafted.

Plus the DraftExpress report, although there's a chance it's not as well-founded as it sounds.

[buckner1976]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-NBA-Draft-Report-Card-2956/

[i]Bill Walker slipped deep into the second round due to concerns regarding his knee. He has a good deal of talent, but doesn’t look very close to being able to contribute at this point in time. It will be interesting to see if the Celtics hold on to him for long enough to see whether he was worth the cash they gave the Wizards for his rights. They are reportedly shopping him overseas at the moment, trying to get him to play in Europe next season and then try and make their team next year.[\i]

This reported from someone who works directly with a number of int'l teams...if he's reporting this there is a good chance he's heard it directly from the market...Ryan Gomes was in a similar position a few years back, but played so well in SL that the team changes its mind...now, circumstances are different this year, there is no SL squad for Boston and the team is coming off a title. But, there is a chance that Walker can impress them somehow--though i dont' see how, as he's going to be rehabbing his knee for the next few weeks and probably won't be ready for game play until late July/early August...looks like pick-up games in the Celtics facility are the only thing he's got...perhaps a ridiculous commitment to working out over the off-season will sway Ainge...

It is likely however that Walker's chance to make this team this year has far more to do with the fates of Posey/House/TA and less to do with his own abilities...the team DOES like him, they wouldn't have bought his rights if they didn't...but he's not going to be a rotation player for this team unless things go very badly wrong this off-season, so why not let someone else pay for his development?

doc did say he thinks this is something teams will do more in the coming years but he didn't think anyone would do it now and didnt think players would want to go over. walkers agent sure doesnt seem to think hes going over. i do see the logic in the move. i wont debate that. but even if they keep him here they'll have roster spots for others. who says something has to go wrong this offseason though? something could go wrong during the season and they could need the extra body. to me whether he plays this year right off the bat is inconsequential. i want him learning under paul and ray right now. learning how to play this game the right way. learning the offense, picking up tricks of the trade in practice. biding his time until hes ready. i just really dont see him developing much by going overseas. to me that serves no purpose in making bill walker a BETTER player.

...can you provide a link to this additional information from Doc and Walker's agent?

...as far as MY opinion...I think that Walker should be glued to Pierce's side every day humanly possible for the the next 36 months...Walker has a game so similar to Pierce's when he was coming out of Kansas...Pierce was a better pull-up shooter than Walker, but lacked Walker's explosiveness attacking the basket...both play a "power 3" game though, both have/had questionable handles, and both are fiercely driven by their emotions when they play...

...I think Walker has all the tools to develop into a big-time player, the injuries are unfortunate and this last minor nic has made him seem like a major risk, but if he can get past it I think he can buckle-down, study what Pierce can do, and duplicate a great deal of it...I've seen his shooting mechanics first-hand...with work there is no-way he can't become a very efficient shooter off one or two-dribble situations and his set 3 pointer should come in time...his game is all about setting up for the slash and he doesnt' need to be an ISO player for a few years, so working pick-and-roll, catch-and-shoot, and shot-fakes for drives are simple things for him to be able to master...

...but what I want and what the team intends to do are separate issues...

im sorry bill but ive looked and i cant find where i read it. ive read through so many articles in this last week and i cant even remember where they all are. having said that im willing to concede the post that its POSSIBLE that walker might end up overseas but i am in otherwise full agreement with what you say SHOULD happen with walker. what i did locate was the danny ainge post draft conference audio on celtics.com where danny does say he brought both these kids in with an eye toward making this years roster FWIW. but until i see another quote from a local source covering the team by danny or doc saying theyre trying to send him overseas im gonna lean towards them not doing that for all the reasons you mentioned and more. if there is indeed a debate about that id imagine it would hinge on how his rehab and development goes after the surgery.

[LongTimeFan]

The interview certainly sounds like they'd like his rehab to go well and he makes the team. They'll keep their options open.

[BadWolf]

2 points. Walker overseas in a good spot would really help the Celtics. If they can get him in a place that will take him for a year, and let him develop, then it works perfectly. The problem with the D-League is that he has to be SIGNED and COUNTED against the 15 man roster. The best thing for Walker is to go to the D-League (since I don't think his game translates internationally as well). But, Boston doesn't want the roster.

You know what I would like to see? How about the Celtics buy a team overseas and use it to stash second round picks? They can buy a team, or go in for a major stake in a team, and then use it as a developmental tool. So, Bill Walker can go play for the Irish Celtics of the English pro league for example.

That way, we pay him money and he develops under our giuse just like they do in soccer.

I imagine the NBA wouldn't allow it, but if they did, we could start our own feeder organization in Europe.

Any team worth having, which means that the competition is good enough, would be very expensive. And good 2nd round picks won't sigh with a **** team. Good luck convincing Erden to play for the Irish Celtics in English Pro League.

Maybe sign an agreement with midlevel team in Baltic or Adriatic leguae to stash a player for a year or two. The competition is solid, there's an outside chance for EL. Don't know about rights and payment. i doubt it's allowed tfor the Celtics to pay a player in Euroleague. Maybe Wyc can as an indivisual on an offshore company, like Celtics Europe Ltd

[TheCelticTruth]

can we make walker and giddens bunk up in an extra room @ pierce's?

[theman]

can we make walker and giddens bunk up in an extra room @ pierce's?

I think they can rent a room but not borrow a Lamborghini.

I have the details a little fuzzy but when Cuban signed Dennis Rodman he let the Worm stay in his mansion and borrow his car. The NBA decided one of those violated the CBA. It was a question of value and the salary cap.

[celticfan42487]

Hey Bill, I know this is a bit of an asinine question. But who do you think Walker will resemeble more on the court, Paul Pierce or Corey Magette or a diffrent player.

[billfromBoston]

...they are actually two players with similar skill-sets...Maggette is less of a 3point threat than Pierce, but both are more slasher than jump shooter and both thrive on in-between pull-ups and post plays at the wing...both get to the line very well...the team would be thrilled to have all three as Walker would learn a great deal from both and Maggette himself would learn a great deal from Pierce...we'd be set at the wing for the future as well with Maggette/Walker/Giddens would be the wing rotation of the future IMO, as Maggette can play 4/3/2 situationally, Walker 4/3/2 situationally, and Giddens 3/2/1(defensively) ...the team could focus on using Allen/Pierce money in 3 years on finding a big man instead of worrying about the wing....

I think Walker/Giddens will both turn into starting caliber players, but worst case you have a 3 wing rotation that can cover all the bases and play well with Rondo at the point..

[Jammer]

Great information from billfromBoston.

My understanding on the situation with requesting a player to go to Europe is that if the player refuses, and the Celtics don't offer him a contract (qualifying offer perhaps) by October 1, then the Celtics lose their rights to the player and the player is free to sign with any team come training camp.

So basically, if Walker decided to stay in the states, and Posey is re-signed, the chances of Walker getting any time at the SF spot after pre-season are dependent on injuries???

[Cybulski37]

I think Walker is gonna be a great player. A great thing about him playing with two superstars in Mayo and Beasley mean he is much more likely to accept his role as a roleplayer. He will be great, but I doubt he's ever gonna be someone to build around. That's something a lot of players struggle with, since they were the man in high school, and oftentimes college.

[GuyClinch]

So basically, if Walker decided to stay in the states, and Posey is re-signed, the chances of Walker getting any time at the SF spot after pre-season are dependent on injuries???

He will be eligible for D-League.. So he can get time there.

Pete

[Gomes3PC]

The way we are offering money at Maggette and Posey, it makes me think that there is no chance Walker plays more than 20 minutes for the Celtics this year, or possibly even next. He's definitely a stash-and-watch player.

Even Giddens looks unlikely to crack the top 10 of our rotation for a year or two, although his D is ready right now and if we go with Maggette, Giddens may get a few MPG as a defensive stopper.