Thank goodness Chris Wallace is gone he is the worst gm

celticfan42487 · Post #16 » by **celticfan42487** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:24 pm

Walker isn't exactly an expiring but he has a team option. Wich Riley put in there. Riley screwed himself with Walker's contract but at least he put that in there to stop the bleeding a little earlier.

theman · Post #17 » by **theman** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:22 pm

Wallace is on weei right now.

meatball sub · Post #18 » by **meatball sub** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:34 pm

It's weird, I don't see this as horrible for either team. For Memphis, Mayo could turn out to be a superstar (I really don't think he will be) and they are taking a risk that is worth it if they truly believe he will pan out. For McHale, Love and Al together is going to be lethal. These guys both have a natural feel for the game on the offensive end. They're going to be a lot of fun to watch together.

GuyClinch · Post #19 » by **GuyClinch** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:43 pm

^^^ My god it sucks for both teams.

It sucks for Memphis because they have too many PG's after the same job - and not enough bigs. But with Mayo's talent - talentwise they got the better deal but that's it.

It sucks worse for Minnesota because that's a defensive nightmare (Jefferson and Love) and even if they do play together there is a chance Love flat out busts..

Pete

meatball sub · Post #20 » by **meatball sub** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:47 pm

No arguing with you that it's a defensive nightmare. I really don't think guys like Love who just flat out know how to play the game bust very often. He may not turn out to be a star, but he's gonna be damn solid IMO.

Ojmayo · Post #21 » by **Ojmayo** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:12 pm

Kevin Mchale: Worst gm of all time

Yes I also think Love will be a bust and who the hell is Cardianl?

Atleast we got miller or maybe he will be gone as well......

theman · Post #22 » by **theman** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:16 pm

Knowing how to play doesn't do much good when you can't compete against the best players in the world. There are four types of busts.

1) Guys that just aren't athletic enough

2) Guys that have the athletics but not the BBIQ.

3) Guys that are always hurt (which is often camoflage for 1 and 2)

4) Guys who do to circumstance just never get a chance. These are the rarest but it does happen.

As for this deal the best play in the deal is NOT OJ Mayo (or Big Love) it Mike Miller. A player that everyone knows can play. Minn is still a few years away so it could be that Miller is trade bait for more young talent. In Wallace's defense, Mayo and Jaric are not points, they can play there in a pinch but both are probably more suited for SG.

The trade I hate for Memphis is Greene for Darrell Arthur. I know they need a big but Greene was the steel of the draft.

It will be interesting to see who turns out better Arthur or Giddens.

bruno sundov · Post #23 » by **bruno sundov** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:30 pm

Miller will do great with all the space that Big Al will create for him. He is what Wally was supposed to be for them and us and seattle and Cle. WOW. That is a lot of ands.

meatball sub · Post #24 » by **meatball sub** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:43 pm

I really don't buy Love not being athletic enough. I guess we'll just have to wait for the regular season. SL is just around the corner here in Orlando and I am hoping to get a chance to check out some of the games.

Falstaff · Post #25 » by **Falstaff** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:49 pm

You know, this all sounds a lot like how everyone was killing the Celtics after the KG trade cause they'd traded all their depth. It took a little time but that got sorted out, no?

I'm not a Chris Wallace fan, and he's a legit bottom 3 GM. However, of those 5 pgs, four of them (Mayo, Lowry, Conley, and Crittenton) have some decent to good trade value. They could easily pick up a decent forward for one or two of those guys and a contract. But it will take a little while to put the next deal together. For now, Mayo is the best pick up on either side of the deal.

And let's also not forget that bad contracts eventually turn into desirable expiring contracts. It's not like Memphis is going to be a good team for the next couple years - maybe those contracts will have value around when the kids are coming into their own either as players or as assets.

If I were a Grizz fan, I think I'd be pretty happy with the deal. As a Wolves fan, however, I think I'd be worried. I'd rather take a shot at a legitimate all-star than pick up a couple good role players. I just don't think Al Jefferson can do it all by himself. Miller is solid, and Love could be ... okay but I'd rather roll the dice with Mayo.

GuyClinch · Post #26 » by **GuyClinch** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:51 pm

I really don't buy Love not being athletic enough. I guess we'll just have to wait for the regular season. SL is just around the corner here in Orlando and I am hoping to get a chance to check out some of the games.

SL doesn't prove anything...He SHOULD dominate in SL. As for knowing how to play the game...who the hell cares. I know how to play tennis but Roger Federer would win 1000 points in a row on me.

I don't know Love will be a bust. Maybe he is the next Nick Collison (at best) but he has an off the scale bust POTENTIAL. I'd put him with the Lopez brothers as likely busts.

Pete

Falstaff · Post #27 » by **Falstaff** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:56 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
I don't know Love will be a bust. Maybe he is the next Nick Collison (at best) but he has an off the scale bust POTENTIAL. I'd put him with the Lopez brothers as likely busts.

Pete

So ie "tall white guys?"

threrf23 · Post #28 » by **threrf23** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:28 am

Minny's D won't be all that good next year in all likelihood....but its not like they traded away good defensive personnel....Mike Miller will make things funner for Minny in the short term, and his contract expires next season while he still should have solid trade value. Moreover if someone wants him bad enough, Minny can package him with Brian Cardinal's expiring contract and get back a max level player.

For the Grizz, Antoine's contract is as good as expiring, but Jaric/Buckner don't expire til after 2010/11 - and none of those guys have trade value beyond a Yogi Stewart or Michael Olowokandi. There are teams that wanted Mike Miller badly I assume, yet the Grizz gave him up and made their cap situation worse in the short term to swap a big man who likely has a solid future in the NBA for an undersized 2 guard criticized for not always being a team player.

Unless...the Grizz plan to tank until 2010/11, then maybe this works for them especially if they think highly of OJ Mayo. This is what the Bulls have done this decade it hasn't worked for them yet (on this note, am I the only one here who thinks drafting Rose over Beasley was a stupid move by them? Bulls need post offense, they have a good PG (Hinrich), Ben Gordon or whoever they trade him for, and are at a point where they need to start winning real soon or things will naturally fall apart IMO...I know they can still trade Gordon for a big, but still. They traded JR Smith for 2 second round picks and by the end of this season IMO he'll be considered at least about as good as Ben Gordon, who will be demanding a large contract this offseason).

Back to the Grizz, even if they were going to tank I can't help but think they could have done better than this trade. But who knows, maybe Mayo is a future superstar. But Minny improved their cap situation for the near future, got dead weight out of their locker room, got an asset that can contribute offensively short term and be an attractive trade piece next offseason....I don't see how anyone can criticize McHale here.

billfromBoston · Post #29 » by **billfromBoston** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:24 am

GuyClinch wrote:
I really don't buy Love not being athletic enough. I guess we'll just have to wait for the regular season. SL is just around the corner here in Orlando and I am hoping to get a chance to check out some of the games.

SL doesn't prove anything...He SHOULD dominate in SL. As for knowing how to play the game...who the hell cares. I know how to play tennis but Roger Federer would win 1000 points in a row on me.

I don't know Love will be a bust. Maybe he is the next Nick Collison (at best) but he has an off the scale bust POTENTIAL. I'd put him with the Lopez brothers as likely busts.

Pete

...you scare me sometimes Clinch...Kevin Love will be a fantastic pro...it'll take him time to get his body where it needs to be, but he's going to be a lot closer to Carlos Boozer than he will be to Nick Collison...

captain_cheapseats · Post #30 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:38 am

Personally I think it's a terrible trade for Memphis, but I can see the justification. Mayo has the potential to be a dynamic superstar in the NBA, so if they truly believe he's going to live up to that and more, they had to get him at any price. Because the thing is, for all our critiques about them having too many PGs (which I don't get, since I think Mayo projects as a SG in the NBA), taking on a terrible contract in Jaric, etc., if Mayo reaches his potential it won't matter; they'll have won the trade. And more to the point, they are a franchise that doesn't have a ton going for them right now, so maybe it was worth it to them to overpay just a 'bit for a guy who could create some buzz/excitement around the franchise.

So at the end of the day while I think it was a poor move,** I understand why they did it.

**I think it was a bad move because I am of the opinion that there is never a reason to give up more value than you get back in a trade, period. A lot of people disagree with that view, and are willing to give up a little extra for a variety of reasons (fill a position of need, change the team dynamic, rebuild, make a run at a title in a certain window, etc.) but I'm not one of them. Notice that those kinds of moves, though often applauded by the media and easily sold to fans, tend to never be made by the consistently great front offices in the NBA.

billfromBoston · Post #31 » by **billfromBoston** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:58 am

I'm a huge fan of Love and think he's the team-leader type, but Mayo has big-time ability as well...look at what Memphis has put together for next year:

Milicic/Marc Gasol
D. Arthur/Warrick
Gay/Warrick
Mayo/Crittenton
Conley/Lowry

Wallace fulfilled his ownership's primary objectives:

1. Cut costs
2. Acquire assets
3. Bring in marketable star power

This Grizzlies team is going to be exciting to watch, they have the pieces to make a big-time trade, and they'll have cap space in spades to throw at the market...Heisley has wanted to create a team that he can sell, but he needed something that was attractive...a running-and-gunning Memphis team will put up points and draw some interest...if Mayo goes off, and he'll be given every chance, he will garner attention nationally and that will get some people talking...

In less than 6 months the Memphis Grizzlies have put themselves in a position of strength--having flexibility and solid assets to move forward in their re-building...this shouldn't be that hard to see for any Celtics fan that understands how his/her own franchise was resurrected...

captain_cheapseats · Post #32 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:11 am

[quote="billfromBoston"][/quote]
But what they have needs to be measured against the opportunity cost of what they could have had, not in a vacuum. They arguably could have gotten more for Gasol and the pick + Miller than they ultimately did. Hence you can say those deals were a reflection of poor front-office work even if the end result is decent.

billfromBoston · Post #33 » by **billfromBoston** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:23 am

captain_cheapseats wrote:
billfromBoston wrote:

But what they have needs to be measured against the opportunity cost of what they could have had, not in a vacuum. They arguably could have gotten more for Gasol and the pick + Miller than they ultimately did. Hence you can say those deals were a reflection of poor front-office work even if the end result is decent.

...its easy to say "they could have gotten X" but a quick canvas of the market told me that whatever increase in return they could have gotten for Pau would have been outweighed by the contract money they would have had to take in exchange...and whatever talent they did get in return, (Bulls players) would have still been below what was necissary to turn things around on their own...

Memphis needed roster flexibility, movable assets, and cap space as quickly as possible...they also needed a marquee player they could market---Mayo in tow now and lots of assets in the backcourt to trade for future assets or a key veteren or two to counter-balance the youth...

I love where Memphis is at...they can turn things around quickly if things come together...

threrf23 · Post #34 » by **threrf23** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:21 am

billfromBoston wrote:
Memphis needed roster flexibility, movable assets, and cap space as quickly as possible...they also needed a marquee player they could market---Mayo in tow now and lots of assets in the backcourt to trade for future assets or a key veteren or two to counter-balance the youth....

Without the trade for Mayo though, they might not have a "Marquee name" but a very solid young core (more solid than they currently have IMO, because Gay/Miller/Conley/Critt would feed off of Love's post ability), more tradable assets (namely Mike Miller, and Cardinal's contract which expires at the same time as Miller's, which may have given them the ability to package Miller Cardinal either Conley or Love and a pick or two for a proven marquee name) more roster flexibility (due to having a more balanced roster), and their cap situation would be looking potentially MUCH better over the next three years.

I actually didn't think the Gasol trade was bad for the Grizz (though its tough to tell for sure without knowing what else might have been on the table. I couldn't support this one though.

billfromBoston · Post #35 » by **billfromBoston** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:43 pm

...the Mayo vs. Love debate is semantics at this point...I think both will be very solid players...the fact that the team got Darrell Arthur makes me come out strongly in Memphis's favor...plus: Crit/Lowry/Warrick have market value and Walker's contract is expiring...even Jaric's deal is movable with those trade commodities...

...Mike Miller was the price of acquiring Mayo, if Mayo was the highest rated player on their board-or higher rated than Love-that's a decent exchange...