My take and ALL things Posey Here....

[jfs1000d]

with maggette signing danny has no leverage. who else would we spend the mle on? I suppose we could get more than one player but would any of them be more valuable to us than posey? I don't think so. it's time to pay the piper. danny took a shot and he lost so let's get james signed and move on

But he doesn't have to spend the MLE. We've got holes in three backup spots. Financially it makes no sense to use up all the MLE on one player. Talentwise, it makes no sense to use the MLE to fill one hole and then tie your hands at the other two positions since all you can offer is the min or the biannual exception which is almost the min.

1. There won't be enough of the mid-level left, after signing James Posey, to do anything except add a third year to Bill Walker's contract (like Leon Powe and Gabe Pruitt).

Posey will get at least $ 5.25 million, per year, if not more.

I don't want to hear anyone on the Celtics gripe about Posey as long as they haven't dumped Scalabrine. And even worse, the lunkhead who obviously wasn't familiar with Posey's game last summer, and who probably worked off stats and not what he did on both ends of the court, to not have locked Posey up last summer for 4 years at $5 million per. That could easily have been done, of course, the LLE would have had to be used to sign Eddie House first. Another blunder.

2. The issue with Eddie House is not dollars, it's years. The Celtics can offer House $1.8 million to start, with 8% raises each future season. The Celtics only want to offer him the vet minimum ($1.3 million, for one season). That's ridiculous. This could have been avoided by simply offering House a two year contract last year, but that's another blunder. The difference between $1.8 million and $1.3 million is inconsequential to a team getting anywhere into the playoffs, with an additional $50 in PROFIT available to a team going all the way. Time not to be penny foolish. House can do much better than the Celtics offer, the least they can do is have a shooter on the bench when needed. And get rid of Scalabrine before moaning about luxury tax. Teams with trade exceptions, teams with cap space, can just take him for a case of Budweiser in return.
k.

Danny didn't make a blunder, he was keeping the LLE open for another player (reggie miller?). Celts went hard after pj and reggie miller and other players last year. They wanted money open to maybe get a player who was waived.

I don't think Ainge blundered last summer signing posey etc. He knew exactly what he was doing. He isn't that upset of these guys leave. A dime a dozen.

[bballcool34]

Posey always has been about the money. It's not a surprise to me that he decided to sign elsewhere.

Of course he is; it's a business decision plain and simple.

The goal of any NBA player should be to support their family as long as they possibly can with the money they earn from the NBA- Posey, with his money, probably wants to be able to significantly contribute financially to at least two generations of his family- his kids and grandkids.

Posey may have grown up poor (I don't know, just saying that he may have as many NBA players do) and obviously he's hoping that with the money he was able to earn in the NBA throughout his career, himself and his kids, grandkids, will never again be lacking for money.

So, sure he's about the money, but no more than any of us would be either I'm sure, if it meant that we could support our families for a longer time in the future.




[/quote]
He's not worth a four year deal.[/quote]

Agree with that.

[GuyClinch]

There's as false characterization being presented here. Nobody's saying Posey's the end all, be all, or that he personally delivered the championship on a platter to us. I can't speak for anyone else, but from what I've seen, seeing as we've got only the MLE with which to fill that reserve 2/3/sometimes 4 role, I think he's the best option still on the market. You feel Matt Barnes or Gadzuric are as good or better options, so be it.

You are saying he deserves his five year full MLE deal right? Ainge probably thinks he could find better ways to spend that money. I think he may be right. He was right about signing Posey in the first place remember?

How is it a leap? Does he have a history of dogging it. I admit to not having watched the Heat much after they won the championship, so strictly going on stats, I don't notice a drop off, so why would you think it's a leap that he'll be motivated?

Pat Riley benched him for being out of shape. That's pretty much the definition of dogging it dude.

Nobody is suggesting signing Posey at any price. When you don't have legitimate points to make, this strategy of making things up and then attributing them to whoever you're struggling with is definitely not winning you any debate points.

Fill me in.. What WERE you suggesting? That we meet Posey's demands for a four or five year max MLE contract right? That's not a "straw man" that's what you were arguing. <g> Way to "make things up."

Listen I bet Ainge sees things they way I am describing. Some fans around here have let their emotions run rampant. People DID want to resign Pedro (a vastly superior player to Posey), Givens, Branch and host of other guys who we "couldn't have won it without."

Truth is we had a bit of luck in our championship. It's not like the C's were so overwhelming that they would have absolutely won if you played those same games again. They almost lost to Cleveland. If we lose this year I am sure fans will chalk it up to Posey. But if we brought him back it wouldn't be a sure thing.

As a GM you need to maximize your value on the money your spending - especially when your roster is top heavy with stars. Resigning sentimenal favorites probably isn't the way to do that.

Pete

[Barry Lird]

There's as false characterization being presented here. Nobody's saying Posey's the end all, be all, or that he personally delivered the championship on a platter to us. I can't speak for anyone else, but from what I've seen, seeing as we've got only the MLE with which to fill that reserve 2/3/sometimes 4 role, I think he's the best option still on the market. You feel Matt Barnes or Gadzuric are as good or better options, so be it.

You are saying he deserves his five year full MLE deal right? Ainge probably thinks he could find better ways to spend that money. I think he may be right. He was right about signing Posey in the first place remember?

No, but I would have considered giving him 4 at slightly less than full MLE. Full MLE for 5 years would be too far beyond his value. My feeling was more about maximizing the possibility of winning another championship within the next two years, as our Big 3 are on the back sides of their careers. I figured that Posey should be able to perform at or near what he did last year (and the several years before that) for 2 more years, and that of the remaining free agents out there, he provided us the most bang for the buck. For me, it could have been a worthwhile tradeoff for the first 2 years of known quality production. He would have been easy enough to trade in his final year.

How is it a leap? Does he have a history of dogging it. I admit to not having watched the Heat much after they won the championship, so strictly going on stats, I don't notice a drop off, so why would you think it's a leap that he'll be motivated?

Pat Riley benched him for being out of shape. That's pretty much the definition of dogging it dude.

His statistics are nearly identical for the last 4 years running. There was no drop off in his performance from the championship year to the next that I can see. In other words, if he was dogging it, it didn't show up in the stats. I suspect he ticked Riley off in some way. As I recall, both he and Antoine had a body fat count that was just above the level that Riley had dictated. As far as on court performance goes, he gave what he always does.

Nobody is suggesting signing Posey at any price. When you don't have legitimate points to make, this strategy of making things up and then attributing them to whoever you're struggling with is definitely not winning you any debate points.

Fill me in.. What WERE you suggesting? That we meet Posey's demands for a four or five year max MLE contract right? That's not a "straw man" that's what you were arguing. <g> Way to "make things up."

Seems you need a little refresher here. You wrote the following:

Posey was a great roleplayer for the C's. We can always be thankful he stepped up just like Jermaine Wiggins did...or Deion Branch or David Givens. I am sure you would have wanted to sign those guys at any price.

Since nobody suggested signing Posey "at any price", it was entirely your invention. So you being "sure the [ I ] would have wanted to sign other sports dudes that you equate to Posey "at any price" is entirely your bull chip, or if you prefer, your straw man.

Listen I bet Ainge sees things they way I am describing. Some fans around here have let their emotions run rampant. People DID want to resign Pedro (a vastly superior player to Posey), Givens, Branch and host of other guys who we "couldn't have won it without."

Has nothing to do with emotion clouding judgement. I have no attachment to Posey. I thought over the next two years, he'd have been the best option, and I was willing to slightly overpay with the idea of dumping him in his last year.

Truth is we had a bit of luck in our championship. It's not like the C's were so overwhelming that they would have absolutely won if you played those same games again. They almost lost to Cleveland. If we lose this year I am sure fans will chalk it up to Posey. But if we brought him back it wouldn't be a sure thing.

Yep, there was definitely some luck involved. We were not the 86 Celts who steamrolled everybody.

If we don't win it this year, I have no idea yet what to attribute that to. It'll have to play itself out. Each team is unique.

As a GM you need to maximize your value on the money your spending - especially when your roster is top heavy with stars. Resigning sentimenal favorites probably isn't the way to do that.

Clearly agreed about maximizing finite resources. But my wanting to resign Posey had nothing to do with sentiment, like I said. It was about how I perceived he'd perform and fit on this team over the next 2 years which I believe to be the Big 3's most realistic window (and that's a whole separate argument, I realize.)

[shackles10]

I don't think we'll ever see Ainge overpay for role players that look better than they are on great teams becauese Ainge himself could be categorized as such a player in his career. He knows who the real stars were and has said so himself for his own playing days.

I appreciate what James Posey did for us. He was great for our team, and a big part to us winning it all. The thing is that every team that has ever won it all has had a bench player that was a big part to their winning. Let's not forget that he is definitely a role player though. When Ray and KG missed some games he didn't start because he isn't a starter. Doc and MANY OTHERS ON THIS BOARD backed him up in saying that it was best to let James stay on the bench because it keeps his ROLE consistent. That's right... his role. He is a role player. A great role player, but still a role player. We will be ok, and if we lose this upcoming season the loss of James Posey will be pretty far down the list and something that could be fixed. It's not like a prolonged injury to a starter leading to a playoff loss, because that is something you really can't fix.

I think people are also looking too much into the phrase "at any price". I don't think it's meant to be so literal and simply means to resign them just because we like them and they ask for a contract we can technically do. At any price they happen to ask for basically is what is meant. If all of the big 3 want max extensions should we do it? Of course not.

[GuyClinch]

I think people are also looking too much into the phrase "at any price". I don't think it's meant to be so literal and simply means to resign them just because we like them and they ask for a contract we can technically do. At any price they happen to ask for basically is what is meant. If all of the big 3 want max extensions should we do it? Of course not.

Agreed. Ainge wouldn't let Posey name his deal - and so he is gone. I think Ainge's theory is that what you do is put together very good teams and if you do that consistently you will end up with championships. Kowtowing to a roleplayers extensive demands would have made that more difficult in the long term for him.

I got to say Ainge had me going. The way he talked up guys for years (who in my opinion often weren't that special) really had be worried we would be locked into all kinds of bad contracts. Apart from Scalabrine though he has stuck to his guns..and been remarkably unsentimental.

The guys he signed LAST year had people TICKED OFF around here. Let's not forget.. Maybe we can expect the same kind of surprising performance from this years cheap free agents.. Though with POB its really hard to imagine..

Pete

[Kefa461]

IMHO.....not signing Posey was a mistake.....I see no one this season who will replace him. I hope I am wrong....

[PPAW4Life]

Man I just watched Game 6 again and it was Posey and House who sparked the run that blew the game open for the C's.

KG, Rondo, and Pierce played well and got us a small lead but it was his intense defense on Kobe and 2 key deflections that got the C's some huge 3's from House and Posey to break the game open allowing the rest of the team to play with more energy and urgency.

I just don't see a Bonzi Wells coming in and doing this type of stuff.....who knows maybe he will.

[MyInsatiableOne]

I thought Posey was great and would have loved him back, but not at that money and for that many years

[shackles10]

Unless those were 20 point deflections I'm not sure how you can say 2 deflections led to the beating that was game 6.