New Orleans increases the probability that Posey's gone

[GreenGrizz]

I don't want Posey back. He is starting to piss me off.

[Celtics_85]

I'll be on that wagon if he isn't signed by Wednesday.

[campybatman]

I recall someone saying that the Celtics can simply add the fourth year and trade Posey that year which would amount to an expiring contract. Yes. But, why would Posey's agent accept this knowing his client could end up on another team after the third year? Unless his agent convinces Ainge to include a trade kicker.

[GonzoLays]

The giveaway is that the Hornets have not yet re-signed Jannero Pargo,

also a Mark Barltlestein client,

rumored to be looking for a 3 year deal at $9 million ($3 million per).

Obviously, if the Hornets commit that much of the MLE to Pargo,

Posey is out of the picture.

So, it would seem that Posey may be first in line.

That article implies, though, that New Orleans only has a 3 year deal at the MLE.

It makes no mention whether the Hornets, in their desperation,

offered raises (up to 8%) in years 2 and 3 on the starting salary of $5.6 million.

The Celtics have not offered raises.

After seeing what Chris Duhon got from the Knicks for a two year deal, all bets are off with Posey.

New Orleans doesn't have to use the MLE to re-sign Pargo. He has played the last two seasons with the Hornets and can be paid upto 175% of his previous salary of 1.8 million dollars.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd rather lose Posey than overpay for him. Posey has a history of following good seasons with bad ones- he played well on a 50+ win Memphis team and earned himself a new contract- then he was overpaid until it ended. Someone will overpay for him again, but I hope it's not the Celtics.

For 3 years and less than the MLE he's worth keeping. Otherwise, sign a cheaper 3 and spend the money on a scorer- maybe one who slips through the cracks in the free agent market- Gomes? J.R. Smith? Ben Gordon?

[Jammer]

New Orleans doesn't have to use the MLE to re-sign Pargo. He has played the last two seasons with the Hornets and can be paid upto 175% of his previous salary of 1.8 million dollars.[/quote]

Ah, thank you very much GonzoLays.

Forgot that important detail.

Since the Hornets can re-sign Pargo for up to $3.15 million without using the MLE,

what's the delay?

Then again, if Posey bolted, the Celts might have their own offer for Jannero.

[shackles10]

I can't imagine it'd be for $3.15 though. Although NO might not want to pay that much for him either if they're gonna be spending money on Posey too. Anyone know if they're close to the lux. tax? I'm too lazy to look.

[PPAW4Life]

The C's have a short window (probably 2-3 more years) to win another title.

Why play with fire and lose one of the most critical components of a your Championship bench?

The C's have absolutely no one who can defend or score off the bench at the WING position.

Ray Allen and Pierce are terrific players and when they go to the bench and Posey comes you do lose the "star" punch but you still get solid production and energy from Posey. Who else is there that the C's can go after that you know will give you production on both sides at a high level off the bench like Posey did, does, and will continue to do?

Posey may not hit all of his 3's he takes and he may not stay in front of LeBron James and Kobe Bryant every time they drive (who the hell can anyway?) but he will always give you the effort, hustle, experience, and team chemistry/positive locker room guy that every team looking to win a Championship (that has a legit shot at winning one) should absolutely have!

And the hold up is one stupid 4 year at 5.585 million dollars? Are you kidding me?

If this costs the C's one title or hell....one or two Finals appearances.....you can't tell me that it won't bother C's fans a little bit?

We are talking about the last 3 years of Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce playing at a high, All-Star caliber level here....why waste such great production for these 3 years just to come up short in the playoffs because Bonzi Wells couldn't hit an open 3 or whoever we get can't take a damn charge to save his life!

I'm starting to get bothered by all of this.....it's like the C's management have become content with one banner....like #17 is enough.....and you know what...it maybe enough for long-time suffering C's fans but it's not enough for Celtic Pride. We have a chance to win more Championships and who's to say we will get back to this level again?

You don't find KG's, Ray Allen's, and Paul Pierce's in the draft all that often.....and you sure as hell don't find these 3 on the same damn team either all that often.

Ainge, get Posey back on this team.....other teams are getting BETTER....losing Posey makes us WORSE.

[JHTruth]

Oh please everyone, since when did George Shinn become Mark Cuban? This is the same George Shinn that let Mourning walk in FA and every other good FA in Charlotte because he didn't want to pay market value. The same George Shinn that Stern has been begging to sell his team for decades. Why does everyone think NO's bench sucks so bad? Because Shinn is too cheap to sign a good bench. CP3 is probably the first bigtime player Shinn has actually retained in FA in two decades. This is the guy that is going to go into the lux tax to sign James Posey to the full MLE? PPPUUHHHLLLLEEEEEZZZEEEEEEEEE...NO is being used by the Posey camp, plain and simple..

[shackles10]

You're making too much sense JHTruth...

[Jammer]

Spears has another version in Monday's (today's) Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... ion_1.html

Seems like Mark Spears is now reporting (Monday, June 14) that the Celtics may have only offered the full mid-level for 2 years.

I know various columns have had it at 3, including ESPN. Maybe one writer was parroting another, and the initial one who said it got it wrong.

Anyway, Posey and House are supposed to be in town tonight. Maybe Posey will accept today.

[buckner1976]

Just for some perspective on the salary numbers --

Ray Allen's $18 million comes off the books in 2010.

If the Celtics decide Ray is too old and do not want to re-sign him, here's what the salary picture looks like for players we can probably guarantee will still be on the team:

Garnett - $19 million
Pierce - $21.5 million
Perkins - $4 million
Rondo - Salary that has to start at $3.7 million, but will likely be at least $6 million

Without Ray we'll probably be tied up in at least $50 million.

And you're at the salary cap. Or close to it. Nowhere near the $8-10 million under the cap you would need to sign a viable 2/3 alternative to replace Ray Allen's production.

Keep in mind this all assumes the Celtics have no other contracts on the roster in 2010 -- no Giddens, Walker, Powe, Davis, Pruitt, or whatever 2nd rounder comes down the line in 2009 and not signing out draft picks in 2010.

Possible? Yes.

Highly unlikely? Yes.

Sorry Wyc & Co., pony up, you won't be crying about Posey pushing you into luxury tax land when another championship or two re-establishes your franchise and shoots the value back through the roof on what you bought it for from Gaston.

Ideally, the Celtics need to see how Ray does next year and start thinking about what his $18 million can bring back in a trade in the ensuing years -- and that's how they're going to bridge between GPA and whatever comes next.

Boston can benefit for a period here where superstars like LeBron, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are still finding there feet while the older class with Tim Duncan sits it out and the Pistons dismantle themselves. The Celtics' biggest competition for the next two years will probably come from LA, and after what we saw in the Finals they have a lot to correct before they can win a title -- it isn't just a matter of getting Andrew Bynum back.

...I like the attempt here SPF, but it is innacurate and highly subjective in certain areas...which is exactly why Ainge and Company are not giving Posey 4 or 5 years...

While it is true that Allen's walk year does not represent a major FA recruiting season, the next season does--that is the season that a 4th year of Posey would mess up the cap situation...

The good thing about having Perkins/Powe/Rondo/Walker/Giddens on the roster is that they are players who will not make substantial money...they probably represent 15 million dollars combined on the cap 3 years from now--that's the great advantage of low-priced youth...the other roster spots can and will continually be filled by one or two year deals for older vets looking to win...with the stars in place the team doesn't need to do more than keep a balance of role players around them...

The year Pierce walks the Celtics have the potential to be over 10 million below the cap...in that time, Patrick O'Bryant or Rajon Rondo could blow up and force Boston to use that money, but if that happened the issue of finding top-quality talent to replace GPA would be moot....all the rest of the youth-with the exception of Powe/Davis-will still be on rookie deals or short-money contracts...Powe will likely make around the same 4 million Perkins is making if the team waits to sign him until after next season...overall, the flexibility of the roster financially is quite high, with lots of youthful potential developing at a cost affordable rate...

The Eddie House/Posey/Pollard/Brown/Cassell types make up the other roster spots...these players never get big time deals for 3+ years, so the team retains that same flexibility the youth provide with their low salaries...

While trades, player development, and the rate of decline of GPA certainly can change the planning process of the team over the next 3 years, keeping Posey-or any other higher priced player-to deals that are 3 years or less is key for maintaining the possability of a FA splash.

...and your point about Posey's value relative to GPA is spot-on, but you've reversed the logic...Posey is a quality role player, but the idea that his role is the only way to win is flawed...if the team went into the season without replacing Posey with some other impact player would weaken the team, but if and when the team does add in other areas, those player's skills may very well lead to the same level of success-even if not in the same manner that Posey delivered...

I think that many on this board a tricking themselves into thinking that what James Posey brought to the Celtics is the ONLY thing that can work for contending for a title in terms of role player production...I believe that O'Bryant's interior defense, Perkins, Rondo, and Powe's improvement...the addition of JR Giddens energy, and another year of familiarity will also improve the team...and I believe that the team will also add a PG and a vet wing to further bolster the attack...

bill stop making sense. didnt the la lakers just contend for a title with kobe bryant and this group of wings??:

vladimir radmanovic
luke walton
sasha vujacic
trevor ariza

last year we had the best overall TEAM defense in the league BY FAR. so if james posey doesnt come back were all the sudden gonna fall apart now?

[LJ]

The Hornets can sign Posey to the full MLE without approaching the luxury tax. They currently have 10 players under contract for salaries totaling $58,289,570. Signing Posey for the full MLE would increase the payroll to $63,874,570. The luxury tax is set at $71,150,000. This would leave the Hornets with $7,275,340 to add 4 players for a full roster. Signing Posey would pose no luxury tax problems for the Hornets.

[PPAW4Life]

Spears has another version in Monday's (today's) Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... ion_1.html

Seems like Mark Spears is now reporting (Monday, June 14) that the Celtics may have only offered the full mid-level for 2 years.

I know various columns have had it at 3, including ESPN. Maybe one writer was parroting another, and the initial one who said it got it wrong.

Anyway, Posey and House are supposed to be in town tonight. Maybe Posey will accept today.

So the C's are holding out 2 years and not just 1.....this is just sounding like they are giving up on getting Posey.

Do they really have that much faith in Giddens and Walker....or possibly resigning TA?

Neither of these guys are going to make the big shot and I think only Giddens has reliable NBA 3 point range, it just won't be consistent.

[GreenGrizz]

Don't trust rookies until they are proven. It is how you handle the championship team. TA is still a wild card. I didn't have confidence in him until I saw his last dunk against LA. That was probably TA's best dunk I ever seen. Is it because he is 100% healthy???

[celticfan42487]

^ No because it was a dunk at the end of a 39 point blowout in a play that involved him not touching the ball during one of the most electric atomoshpere's he most likely will ever play in for the rest of his life.

If Posey doesn't want to re-sign here, maybe Pargo will take the full MLE for a couple of years and look for a starting contract afterwards.

I don't think we should ever really wet the entire bed on one player, and that's what signing Posey for a Full MLE for 4 years would be. We had holes last year and we can win with those filled rather then having Posey.

It's possible for our team to win with more then one cast of roleplayers.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Don't trust rookies until they are proven. It is how you handle the championship team. TA is still a wild card. I didn't have confidence in him until I saw his last dunk against LA. That was probably TA's best dunk I ever seen. Is it because he is 100% healthy???

No, it's because the C's were up by 40 with minutes left to play and the Lakers didn't even play defense.

Seriously, that dunk got you excited? That was a practice dunk, man...sheesh!

[armageddon]

The Hornets can sign Posey to the full MLE without approaching the luxury tax. They currently have 10 players under contract for salaries totaling $58,289,570. Signing Posey for the full MLE would increase the payroll to $63,874,570. The luxury tax is set at $71,150,000. This would leave the Hornets with $7,275,340 to add 4 players for a full roster. Signing Posey would pose no luxury tax problems for the Hornets.

Not quite, they will be over the cap so they will only have their exemptions to sign players.

[LJ]

The Hornets can sign Posey to the full MLE without approaching the luxury tax. They currently have 10 players under contract for salaries totaling $58,289,570. Signing Posey for the full MLE would increase the payroll to $63,874,570. The luxury tax is set at $71,150,000. This would leave the Hornets with $7,275,340 to add 4 players for a full roster. Signing Posey would pose no luxury tax problems for the Hornets.

Not quite, they will be over the cap so they will only have their exemptions to sign players.

Easily managed by resigning Pargo, using bi-annual exemption to sign another player, and filling out roster with league minimum salary players.

[JHTruth]

The Hornets can sign Posey to the full MLE without approaching the luxury tax. They currently have 10 players under contract for salaries totaling $58,289,570. Signing Posey for the full MLE would increase the payroll to $63,874,570. The luxury tax is set at $71,150,000. This would leave the Hornets with $7,275,340 to add 4 players for a full roster. Signing Posey would pose no luxury tax problems for the Hornets.

Not quite, they will be over the cap so they will only have their exemptions to sign players.

Easily managed by resigning Pargo, using bi-annual exemption to sign another player, and filling out roster with league minimum salary players.

Sure next year. Then CP3's max extension kicks in and then they will be paying the tax for sure. So signing Posey to 4 years would most definately mean luxury tax for about 3 years..