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Quick Blurb about Nick Young

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Quick Blurb about Nick Young 

Post#1 » by mhd » Tue May 20, 2008 11:01 pm

N1 is working out with upcoming draft prospects according to draftexpress. Good that he's working hard in the off-season. I feel he could easily average double figures next year.
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Post#2 » by dfreshbfresh » Tue May 20, 2008 11:45 pm

I'm expecting 11-15ppg from him next year. We could be the highest scoring team in the league nextyear assuming Gil and Tawn are back
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Post#3 » by WizarDynasty » Wed May 21, 2008 2:55 pm

Nick Young is our best perimeter defender against the three because of his 7'0 Wingspan and quickness
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Post#4 » by Wizards2Lottery » Wed May 21, 2008 3:01 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Nick Young is our best perimeter defender against the three because of his 7'0 Wingspan and quickness


He could be. But I doubt EJ coaches him up to be anything else than a scorer, the same thing he did with Gilbert.

But yeah Nick Young definitely has the ability to be a very good two way player.
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Post#5 » by WizarDynasty » Wed May 21, 2008 5:02 pm

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He could be. But I doubt EJ coaches him up to be anything else than a scorer, the same thing he did with Gilbert.

But yeah Nick Young definitely has the ability to be a very good two way player.


yeah eddie was a crappy defender as player. Always boasting about his steals...which probably didn't even come from on ball defense. He probably coaches all the players to jump passing lanes, and leave your man open instead of hardnosed..one on one forces turnovers..and one on one blocked shots on perimeter. Eddie must coach them all the same way cuz the only turnovers you see are when wiz jump passing lanes...you never see a player pluck another players dribble cleanly..you never see a perimeter player get clean blocks on the perimeter..and you never see a point guard having a hard time advancing the ball through the halfway mark. Eddie prides himself on steals...but not one on forced turnovers. We see the same traits in butler..his only defense is jumping passing lanes...no on ball steals in one on match ups. Same thing when Hughes was here...jump passing lanes...

Wizards seems to never show in games that they actually practice challenging shots effectively.
I think Jordan's time has come. His only defense that he preaches is jumping passing lanes and not forcing his players to develop one on perimter defensive skills mirroring all of eddie jordans crummy guard play when he was in the nba. JOrdan never lead point guards in blocked shots...hence his players don't. Jordan never pressured point guards bringing the ball hence his players don't...jordan was a stat stuffer -when he was in NBA thinking that because he jumped passing lanes..that made him a great defender...NO..blocking shots...shutting down dribble penetration..and blocking shots without fouling...are what make you an awesome defensive player. that jump passing lanes to get the easy steal instead earning the steal the hard nose way by locking down your defenders dribble.
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Post#6 » by WizarDynasty » Wed May 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Gilbert0Arenas wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He could be. But I doubt EJ coaches him up to be anything else than a scorer, the same thing he did with Gilbert.

But yeah Nick Young definitely has the ability to be a very good two way player.


yeah eddie was a crappy defender as player. Always boasting about his steals...which probably didn't even come from on ball defense. He probably coaches all the players to jump passing lanes, and leave your man open instead of hardnosed..one on one forces turnovers..and one on one blocked shots on perimeter. Eddie must coach them all the same way cuz the only turnovers you see are when wiz jump passing lanes...you never see a player pluck another players dribble cleanly..you never see a perimeter player get clean blocks on the perimeter..and you never see a point guard having a hard time advancing the ball through the halfway mark. Eddie prides himself on steals...but not one on forced turnovers. We see the same traits in butler..his only defense is jumping passing lanes...no on ball steals in one on match ups. Same thing when Hughes was here...jump passing lanes...

Wizards seems to never show in games that they actually practice challenging shots effectively.
I think Jordan's time has come. His only defense that he preaches is jumping passing lanes and not forcing his players to develop one on perimter defensive skills mirroring all of eddie jordans crummy guard play when he was in the nba. JOrdan never lead point guards in blocked shots...hence his players don't. Jordan never pressured point guards bringing the ball hence his players don't...jordan was a stat stuffer -when he was in NBA thinking that because he jumped passing lanes..that made him a great defender...NO..blocking shots...shutting down dribble penetration..and blocking shots without fouling...are what make you an awesome defensive player. that jump passing lanes to get the easy steal instead earning the steal the hard nose way by locking down your defenders dribble.

gilbert was on the verge of becoming an outstanding defensive player when he got here...only to let Jordan kill all the true on ball defensive skills he was developing with boykins..and substitute that for jumping passing lanes. As long as eddies guards jump passing lanes for the easy steal...eddie his over joyed...thinking this is the defense that wins championships. LOL because Jordan lead the league in steals.

Jason kidds was already a great defender on ball defender before you got him in New Jersey. he used his strength to deny point guards driving lanes much like Ron Artest over powers drivers and causes them to lose balance and the ball. His strength is so much greater that who he is guarding that his slight motions when bumping a defender look like but are 3 times stronger than the average player..but the player on offense definitely feels the difference. this is what jason kidd has relative to point guards..just as artest has this same strength advantage throwing SF and SG off balance and taking their dribble without being called for a foul.
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Post#7 » by TheSecretWeapon » Wed May 21, 2008 8:30 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



yeah eddie was a crappy defender as player. Always boasting about his steals...which probably didn't even come from on ball defense. He probably coaches all the players to jump passing lanes, and leave your man open instead of hardnosed..one on one forces turnovers..and one on one blocked shots on perimeter. Eddie must coach them all the same way cuz the only turnovers you see are when wiz jump passing lanes...you never see a player pluck another players dribble cleanly..you never see a perimeter player get clean blocks on the perimeter..and you never see a point guard having a hard time advancing the ball through the halfway mark. Eddie prides himself on steals...but not one on forced turnovers. We see the same traits in butler..his only defense is jumping passing lanes...no on ball steals in one on match ups. Same thing when Hughes was here...jump passing lanes...

Wizards seems to never show in games that they actually practice challenging shots effectively.
I think Jordan's time has come. His only defense that he preaches is jumping passing lanes and not forcing his players to develop one on perimter defensive skills mirroring all of eddie jordans crummy guard play when he was in the nba. JOrdan never lead point guards in blocked shots...hence his players don't. Jordan never pressured point guards bringing the ball hence his players don't...jordan was a stat stuffer -when he was in NBA thinking that because he jumped passing lanes..that made him a great defender...NO..blocking shots...shutting down dribble penetration..and blocking shots without fouling...are what make you an awesome defensive player. that jump passing lanes to get the easy steal instead earning the steal the hard nose way by locking down your defenders dribble.


Basically, everything posted here is incorrect. As I posted on the other thread, Eddie actually was a pretty good NBA defender, though not great. He wasn't big enough to be an elite defender, but he was very quick, and he was a terrific ball hawk. Your comments about him not blocking shots are simply incorrect. Among players 6-2 or shorter (Eddie is 6-1), Eddie is 5th in career blocks per minute. That's 5th most in blocks per minute since the league began tracking blocked shots 30+ years ago. In 78-79, he led 6-2 and under players in blocks per minute. He's #1 in career steals per minute among players 6-2 or shorter. Defensively, he was more than adequate -- his problem was on the offensive end.
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Post#8 » by Spence » Wed May 21, 2008 8:34 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:Basically, everything posted here is incorrect.

But at least he posted it twice so you could really appreciate the ignorance.

That's some serious pwnage, Kev.
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Post#9 » by WizarDynasty » Wed May 21, 2008 9:16 pm

delete
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Post#10 » by WizarDynasty » Wed May 21, 2008 9:18 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Basically, everything posted here is incorrect. As I posted on the other thread, Eddie actually was a pretty good NBA defender, though not great. He wasn't big enough to be an elite defender, but he was very quick, and he was a terrific ball hawk. Your comments about him not blocking shots are simply incorrect. Among players 6-2 or shorter (Eddie is 6-1), Eddie is 5th in career blocks per minute. That's 5th most in blocks per minute since the league began tracking blocked shots 30+ years ago. In 78-79, he led 6-2 and under players in blocks per minute. He's #1 in career steals per minute among players 6-2 or shorter. Defensively, he was more than adequate -- his problem was on the offensive end.


that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). lol 6-2 and under. I don't care how tall he is, all I care about is how he performed relative to people playing his position. showing me how ranks compared to Point guards. Don't give me that garbage. You think we should give wizards 5 extra points because lebron james is stronger and can jump higher than stevenson. is that a mental win in your books. Should we sit home and watch cleveland advance and tell ourself..."We actually won because stevenson was shorter than lebron so we should use a different standard when evaluating him to other SG's. Let me answer that question for...incorrect logic buddy. Its what you do on the court compared to the other guy on the court. So if you compared eddie, compare him to all point guards....so bring up your ignorant 6'2 and other stat when the NBA gives an opponent stats for being short. A blocked shot on a the perimeter..is outstanding defense whether you are tall or short and they both count the same. so if you wanna tell me that eddie ranked high in blocked shots for all point guards ever..then yeah...but take a bucket of rotten and eggs and let your hair sit in it for a couple of minutes to smell what i smell if you think you 6'2 is going to give eddie a pass for being a pathetic shot blocker at the point guard position relative to his counterparts who play the PG position regardless of height lol.
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Post#11 » by Dat2U » Wed May 21, 2008 9:35 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). lol 6-2 and under. I don't care how tall he is, all I care about is how he performed relative to people playing his position. showing me how ranks compared to Point guards. Don't give me that garbage. You think we should give wizards 5 extra points because lebron james is stronger and can jump higher than stevenson. is that a mental win in your books. Should we sit home and watch cleveland advance and tell ourself..."We actually won because stevenson was shorter than lebron so we should use a different standard when evaluating him to other SG's. Let me answer that question for...incorrect logic buddy. Its what you do on the court compared to the other guy on the court. So if you compared eddie, compare him to all point guards....so bring up your ignorant 6'2 and other stat when the NBA gives an opponent stats for being short. A blocked shot on a the perimeter..is outstanding defense whether you are tall or short and they both count the same. so if you wanna tell me that eddie ranked high in blocked shots for all point guards ever..then yeah...but go jump in a ditch and use the shovel to bury yourself if you think you 6'2 is going to give eddie a pass for being a pathetic shot blocker at the point guard position relative to his counterparts who play the PG position regardless of height lol.


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Post#12 » by fugop » Thu May 22, 2008 12:35 am

It's hard to block shots with genu varum.
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Post#13 » by Kanyewest » Thu May 22, 2008 4:30 am

WizarDynasty wrote:Nick Young is our best perimeter defender against the three because of his 7'0 Wingspan and quickness


Young is pretty skinny and light for his size so he would have a problem with bigger, bulkier 3s like LeBron and Carmelo Anthony. He also hasn't learned how to use his hands and can often be pick up cheap reaching fouls.
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Post#14 » by TheSecretWeapon » Thu May 22, 2008 2:20 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). lol 6-2 and under. I don't care how tall he is, all I care about is how he performed relative to people playing his position. showing me how ranks compared to Point guards. Don't give me that garbage. You think we should give wizards 5 extra points because lebron james is stronger and can jump higher than stevenson. is that a mental win in your books. Should we sit home and watch cleveland advance and tell ourself..."We actually won because stevenson was shorter than lebron so we should use a different standard when evaluating him to other SG's. Let me answer that question for...incorrect logic buddy. Its what you do on the court compared to the other guy on the court. So if you compared eddie, compare him to all point guards....so bring up your ignorant 6'2 and other stat when the NBA gives an opponent stats for being short. A blocked shot on a the perimeter..is outstanding defense whether you are tall or short and they both count the same. so if you wanna tell me that eddie ranked high in blocked shots for all point guards ever..then yeah...but go jump in a ditch and use the shovel to bury yourself if you think you 6'2 is going to give eddie a pass for being a pathetic shot blocker at the point guard position relative to his counterparts who play the PG position regardless of height lol.


I apologize. I thought I wouldn't need to explain that the height comparison was a proxy for position. Clearly I was wrong about that. A "proxy" by the way is a substitute. In other words, I used height because it would restrict the comparison to players most likely to play the same position and to be similar to Eddie Jordan. In this case, I thought that would be more efficient than combing through 30+ years worth of statistical data to identify which guys were PGs and which guys weren't. By "more efficient" I mean "taking less time." By "taking less time" I mean that I was able to do the search on Eddie's blocks in comparison with other similar players in about 5 minutes. Searching through 30 years worth of player data might have taken 5 weeks.

When I expand the height comparison to include players up to 6-5, I get guys like David Thompson, Otis Smith, Jo Jo English, Paul Pressey, Don Chaney, Michael Cooper, etc. These guys (and many, many others) collected in the search were SGs or SFs. These would not be appropriate comparisons to Eddie Jordan because they didn't play the same position, and they were not close to being similar players.

At 6-4, I get guys like David Thompson, Blue Edwards, Alvin Robertson, Fred Jones, Dell Curry, Cuttino Mobley, Sidney Moncrief, TR Dunn, Darrell Griffith, Byron Scott, Voshon Leonard, etc. None of these guys are/were PGs, so shouldn't really be included in the comparison, according to the criteria you've defined. It's worth nothing, though that Eddie blocked as many or more shots per minute than did SGs like Moncrief (widely regarded as one of the top perimeter defenders in NBA history), TR Dunn (a defensive specialist for the 80s Nuggets teams), Darrell Griffith (a terrific leaper and dunker with the 80s Jazz), and Byron Scott.

Sorta interesting to note that Eddie had as many or more per minute blocks for his career than did a number of guys who were 6, 7, and 8 inches taller than he was. AND MORE -- I just noticed that 6-11 Jarron Collins has basically the same number of per minute blocks as Eddie. In fact, I count 23 players in league history who were 6-9 or taller and had per minute blocks equal to or lower than Eddie Jordan's career per minute blocks. Just a reminder -- Eddie was 6-1. Perhaps I don't need to explain this, but just in case -- 6-1 is not as tall as 6-9 (or 6-10, or 6-11, or (in the case of Hank Finkel) 7-0).

I won't make the cut to 6-3, because doing so would leave out big PGs such as Jason Kidd (although Eddie blocked more shots per minute than Kidd). Even comparing Eddie to guys 6-4 and under (which includes a fair number of SGs (and, in the case of Blue Edwards at least, a SF), Eddie ranks in the top 30 in blocks per minute. What this means is that Eddie was a GOOD shot blocker among PGs.

What this also means is that you might want to take a few minutes to check and see whether what you're claiming as fact is...well...fact. Or, just ask questions. Looking up Eddie's info and comparing it to other similar players has actually been interesting. I've learned something about Eddie the player I didn't know before. I suspect the same is true for those who have read the stuff I've posted. So, thanks for raising the issue. But seriously, check the claims you want to make. You might learn something.
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Post#15 » by fishercob » Thu May 22, 2008 2:28 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Nick Young is our best perimeter defender against the three because of his 7'0 Wingspan and quickness


He's not bowlegged enough. Or is bowleggedness just a requirement for on-ball defense? Right, I remember now. The most important attribute of perimeter D is double-jointedness.
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Post#16 » by TheSecretWeapon » Thu May 22, 2008 2:55 pm

fishercob wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He's not bowlegged enough. Or is bowleggedness just a requirement for on-ball defense? Right, I remember now. The most important attribute of perimeter D is double-jointedness.


You're a forgetful idiot. Like a week ago, you posted about the importance of accelerating through a diagonal plane and breathing through the eyelids. Bowleggedness and being double-jointed are important, but the key to on-ball defense is definitely breathing through the eyelids.

Also, perhaps the most underrated aspect of defense is having that inner eyelid like an alligator so that the defender can blink and keep his eyes moist and protected while never losing focus on the offensive player. That's Bruce Bowen's REAL advantage, and that (combined with his ability to breathe through both eyelids -- taught to him by Tim Duncan, who learned it from David Robinson -- I mean, is it really a coincidence that Bowen wasn't all that ballyhooed as a defender until he got to the Spurs???) more than makes up for the fact that he isn't bowlegged or double-jointed.

Come on, keep up with the science.
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Post#17 » by WizarDynasty » Thu May 22, 2008 3:39 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). lol 6-2 and under. I don't care how tall he is, all I care about is how he performed relative to people playing his position. showing me how ranks compared to Point guards. Don't give me that garbage. You think we should give wizards 5 extra points because lebron james is stronger and can jump higher than stevenson. is that a mental win in your books. Should we sit home and watch cleveland advance and tell ourself..."We actually won because stevenson was shorter than lebron so we should use a different standard when evaluating him to other SG's. Let me answer that question for...incorrect logic buddy. Its what you do on the court compared to the other guy on the court. So if you compared eddie, compare him to all point guards....so bring up your ignorant 6'2 and other stat when the NBA gives an opponent stats for being short. A blocked shot on a the perimeter..is outstanding defense whether you are tall or short and they both count the same. so if you wanna tell me that eddie ranked high in blocked shots for all point guards ever..then yeah...but go jump in a ditch and use the shovel to bury yourself if you think you 6'2 is going to give eddie a pass for being a pathetic shot blocker at the point guard position relative to his counterparts who play the PG position regardless of height lol.


I apologize. I thought I wouldn't need to explain that the height comparison was a proxy for position. Clearly I was wrong about that. A "proxy" by the way is a substitute. In other words, I used height because it would restrict the comparison to players most likely to play the same position and to be similar to Eddie Jordan. In this case, I thought that would be more efficient than combing through 30+ years worth of statistical data to identify which guys were PGs and which guys weren't. By "more efficient" I mean "taking less time." By "taking less time" I mean that I was able to do the search on Eddie's blocks in comparison with other similar players in about 5 minutes. Searching through 30 years worth of player data might have taken 5 weeks.

When I expand the height comparison to include players up to 6-5, I get guys like David Thompson, Otis Smith, Jo Jo English, Paul Pressey, Don Chaney, Michael Cooper, etc. These guys (and many, many others) collected in the search were SGs or SFs. These would not be appropriate comparisons to Eddie Jordan because they didn't play the same position, and they were not close to being similar players.

At 6-4, I get guys like David Thompson, Blue Edwards, Alvin Robertson, Fred Jones, Dell Curry, Cuttino Mobley, Sidney Moncrief, TR Dunn, Darrell Griffith, Byron Scott, Voshon Leonard, etc. None of these guys are/were PGs, so shouldn't really be included in the comparison, according to the criteria you've defined. It's worth nothing, though that Eddie blocked as many or more shots per minute than did SGs like Moncrief (widely regarded as one of the top perimeter defenders in NBA history), TR Dunn (a defensive specialist for the 80s Nuggets teams), Darrell Griffith (a terrific leaper and dunker with the 80s Jazz), and Byron Scott.

Sorta interesting to note that Eddie had as many or more per minute blocks for his career than did a number of guys who were 6, 7, and 8 inches taller than he was. AND MORE -- I just noticed that 6-11 Jarron Collins has basically the same number of per minute blocks as Eddie. In fact, I count 23 players in league history who were 6-9 or taller and had per minute blocks equal to or lower than Eddie Jordan's career per minute blocks. Just a reminder -- Eddie was 6-1. Perhaps I don't need to explain this, but just in case -- 6-1 is not as tall as 6-9 (or 6-10, or 6-11, or (in the case of Hank Finkel) 7-0).

I won't make the cut to 6-3, because doing so would leave out big PGs such as Jason Kidd (although Eddie blocked more shots per minute than Kidd). Even comparing Eddie to guys 6-4 and under (which includes a fair number of SGs (and, in the case of Blue Edwards at least, a SF), Eddie ranks in the top 30 in blocks per minute. What this means is that Eddie was a GOOD shot blocker among PGs.

What this also means is that you might want to take a few minutes to check and see whether what you're claiming as fact is...well...fact. Or, just ask questions. Looking up Eddie's info and comparing it to other similar players has actually been interesting. I've learned something about Eddie the player I didn't know before. I suspect the same is true for those who have read the stuff I've posted. So, thanks for raising the issue. But seriously, check the claims you want to make. You might learn something.


Look if a guy starts the majority of his games at the pg positions, he is in fact a point guard. So cut the bull about using height. I care about players who started the majority of their career as point guards. If you can't narrow your statistical data by that standard..their your analysis is useless. The common assumption that can't be disputed about every game ever played in the history of basketball is this...when the tip off occurred...one of the players on the floor was responsible for advancing the ball from inbound to the front court. In defining which player is a true point and which one weren't, all you need to do is see if he started the majority of the games advancing the ball. If he didn't start the majority of games advancing the ball from inbound to front court..then he isn't. Gilbert is a point guard. He may not guard a point guard but the majority of his games that he has ever played in nba, he was the person who advanced the ball up the court at tip off before substitutions.
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Post#18 » by nate33 » Thu May 22, 2008 4:01 pm

WizardDynasty, you'd be a gifted troll if you weren't actually serious.
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Post#19 » by WizarDynasty » Thu May 22, 2008 4:14 pm

nate33 wrote:WizardDynasty, you'd be a gifted troll if you weren't actually serious.


Well if you had history ability to look at my previous post, you would make wouldn't make the error of assuming I wasn't a wizard fan but I have come to expect the sloppiness from some of my colleagues . Apparently you haven't done your research.
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Post#20 » by TheSecretWeapon » Thu May 22, 2008 4:26 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Look if a guy starts the majority of his games at the pg positions, he is in fact a point guard. So cut the bull about using height. I care about players who started the majority of their career as point guards. If you can't narrow your statistical data by that standard..their your analysis is useless. The common assumption that can't be disputed about every game ever played in the history of basketball is this...when the tip off occurred...one of the players on the floor was responsible for advancing the ball from inbound to the front court. In defining which player is a true point and which one weren't, all you need to do is see if he started the majority of the games advancing the ball. If he didn't start the majority of games advancing the ball from inbound to front court..then he isn't. Gilbert is a point guard. He may not guard a point guard but the majority of his games that he has ever played in nba, he was the person who advanced the ball up the court at tip off before substitutions.


Yeah, I should stop using height. After all, I'm missing out on all the 6-10 PGs who block so many shots.

By including guys up to 6-4, I'm actually including data that would be favorable to your claim about Eddie's shot blocking abilities. And your argument still ain't holding up. I think that most people would try to revise their argument. But you definitely aren't "most people."

I think I've put it all together, though. Asserting erroneous or false information? Check. Reaching absurd conclusions from that bad information? Check. Stubbornly clinging to correctness of absurd conclusion based on bad information? Check. Tell the truth, Dynasty -- are you George W. Bush?
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