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Has Perk lost his job?

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Post#13 » by Jammer » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:43 pm

Center is the black hole on the Celtics.

Glen Davis is not the answer.

What the Celtics need from a center is rebounding, post defense, and patrolling the paint, with a reasonable amount of points.

Perkins, Davis and Pollard, before yesterday, were averaging 13 ppg, 10 rpg and 1 apg.

Perkins and Davis get their points by being alone under the basket, with the defense having to be up against Ray Allen and Paul Pierce on the wings, Kevin Garnett in the high post, and whoever is in at point (Rondo, House or Tony Allen).

Neither Davis or Perk can create their own shot. Pollard can actually knock down outside jump shots, but doesn't take them. I wish he would.

Defensively, Perk has more size, standing reach (very important), vertical leap and experience.

If anything, if the opportunity allows, and which I suggested two months ago, Glen Davis can finish games with the starting unit because of his increased creativity around the basket. This is mostly dependent on whether he is on, in the zone, and can just find away to put the ball in the basket without out athletising (word??- no) his opponents.

Perk takes the load off of Garnett with his post defense, and banging with players to save wear and tear on Garnett. Davis can sometimes work, he won't be there all the time. He's simply undersized, without Larry Johnson or Charles Barkley's quicks, jump shot, ball handling or leaping ability.

Davis will be there every now and then, hanging out underneath, and making a living off all the attention given to PGA. But Davis isn't the defensive presence of Perkins, Detroit simply missed their shots yesterday. But they were open, they just didn't fall.

Figuring out a way to get more production out of Davis, Perk and Pollard (especially Scot) will be the key for the Celtics having success in the playoffs, when teams study films, matchups, and pick one or two guys to try to shut down (i.e. Eddie House or Glen Davis).

I think the Celtics production at center is more glaring if you look at:

41 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg from Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Eddie House, Tony Allen
47 ppg, 20 rpg, 10 apg from Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, James Posey
13 ppg, 11 rpg, 1 apg from Kendrick Perkins, Scot Pollard, Glen Davis

The need to improve is on line 3, the centers. Rebounding improvement is probably the most achievable, Kendrick has really upped his numbers the last 8 games, since Perk was heavily criticized on this board for not rebounding (Perk's season average has increased from 4.9 to 5.6 in that time).
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Post#14 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:47 pm

I don't think he should bestart but it was hard not to notice that Rasheed couldn't really dislodge Davis from the paint which I found pretty encouraging.
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Post#15 » by Jimmy103 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:50 pm

ParticleMan wrote:Hey anyone notice that Scal is now completely out of the rotation? That was step 1, for Baby to pass Scal, which he'd done. Woot!


Hahahaha

It's funny you should mention that. All summer I kept hearing how Scal would prove his worth and I even heard the comparison of Big Shot Bob Horry thrown out there.

Hahaha :clap:
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Post#16 » by BillessuR6 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:50 pm

No. KG and Perk are a great combo. Perk brings exactly what we need in the starting 5. And since we need some scoring off the bench Davis is perfect for that role.
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davis and center position 

Post#17 » by sox839 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:51 pm

Davis is great off the bench. Also thosecomplaining about thecenter position were fine. There are not many great centers left anymore. We have three guys who are servicable. Perk, pollard and davis would be 1st or second string centers on any nba team. They all bring something different to the table. Look at san antonio there center is weak fran elsonor oberto they are no better than what we have. In the nba you need a good big guy either for center and we have a great pf in garnett. Baby is going to be a player we just need to keep cliff ray and keepwotking with him.
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Post#18 » by Rondo_Fan » Sun Jan 6, 2008 5:54 pm

I would keep starting Perk, for all the reasons that everyone mentioned. Also, I like the stability of keeping the front of our rotation in place.
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Post#19 » by ParticleMan » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:33 pm

I think stats are a poor way to measure our production at the C spot. They are in there for defense, for beating up opponents, for using up fouls, and for making shots when they are wide open. So far they've been pretty good at it. Of course we'd be better off with Yao or Howard but it's tough to assemble allstars at all 5 spots. If Ainge pulled that off we'd know for sure that he sold his Mormon soul to the devil.
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Post#20 » by bawstin » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:49 pm

Jammer wrote:I think the Celtics production at center is more glaring if you look at:

105.4 mpg, 41 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg from Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Eddie House, Tony Allen
95.5 mpg, 47 ppg, 20 rpg, 10 apg from Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, James Posey
42.3 mpg, 13 ppg, 11 rpg, 1 apg from Kendrick Perkins, Scot Pollard, Glen Davis

It's an interesting comparison but you have to account for minutes.
I'm just sayin' is all...
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Post#21 » by meatball sub » Sun Jan 6, 2008 6:53 pm

No, Big Baby is EXACTLY what we need off the bench. Perk off the bench would be redundant, playing with GPA has helped build his confidence and makes him a better player. If he were to come off the bench he would be an offensive liability, with the starting 5 he's not.
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Post#22 » by GuyClinch » Sun Jan 6, 2008 7:40 pm

DA has said that center is the ONE POSITION where he favours defense more then offense. It's the position where you can just throw out those production numbers because Danny does not care. It's all about the D - and rebounding to a lessor extent.

I think both Pollard and Perkins are better one on one and team defenders then Davis who is better on O with regards to passing and creativitiy (he doesn't finish that great for a center). Anyway I think our center position is okay. yes it could be upgraded but not at any reasonable cost.

The Spurs have won mutiple championships with stiff centers and so have the Bulls. It not going to hold us back at all to play defensive types there.

Pete
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Post#23 » by jjwalker » Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:01 pm

no. Imagine though if Baby was 5-6 inches taller and could jump. Wow. Shaq 2.0.... I would love to know his real height. He's gotta be 6'5-6'6.
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Post#24 » by bceltic55 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:46 pm

Perk is nor losing his starting position. It is all about matchups and Perk does not do well against mobile centers, but BB is too short to go up against the starters all the time. He is great off the bench.
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Post#25 » by meatball sub » Sun Jan 6, 2008 9:55 pm

GuyClinch wrote:DA has said that center is the ONE POSITION where he favours defense more then offense. It's the position where you can just throw out those production numbers because Danny does not care. It's all about the D - and rebounding to a lessor extent.

I think both Pollard and Perkins are better one on one and team defenders then Davis who is better on O with regards to passing and creativitiy (he doesn't finish that great for a center). Anyway I think our center position is okay. yes it could be upgraded but not at any reasonable cost.

The Spurs have won mutiple championships with stiff centers and so have the Bulls. It not going to hold us back at all to play defensive types there.

Pete


Bingo...Oberto and Elson, 'nough said. You don't need anything but a role player, defensive minded C.
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Post#26 » by Celts17Pride » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:18 pm

Threads like this one are just plain dumb. Nothing else needs to be said.
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Re: Has Perk lost his job? 

Post#27 » by Kefa461 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:27 pm

Ghost of the Garden wrote:Pro/Cons of giving Big Baby the nod in starting lineup over perk.

Pros
-Much better offensive production
-Offensive rebounds
-More hustle
-MUCH better hands

Cons
-Will have trouble guarding taller more athletic centers ie. big z, mcdyess, dwight etc.
-is his body NBA ready to get consistant NBA minutes? he is a rookie, he could break down in the 2nd half of season
-not as good of a passer as perk
-cannot jump/defend as well
-if he can't play center, asking KG to play center could put more strain on him (he's our most important player)


I know it's one game. I'm just throwing it out there. Big Baby has got some DNPs in the past I'm just wondering if those were match up reasons or he just wasn't practicing well for Doc.



That says it all.... 8)
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Post#28 » by threrf23 » Sun Jan 6, 2008 10:27 pm

I personally don't think Perk should be removed from the starting lineup. Bench production is important, and an offensive option under the basket is necessary with KG on the bench.

That said, I don't think Perk is fully healthy - and as a result - I don't think he should be getting so many minutes with or without BB's solid play.

The implication of last night's game IMO, is BB needs more minutes, and Perk needs less minutes. This isn't just because BB deserves more minutes, its also based on a hypothesis that if Perk is not on the floor for more than 6-8 minutes at a time with good rest in between, he should be able to stay healthier and contribute more (defensively and offensively) when he does play (as long as he stays healthier).

Also....I can't call Pollard a better defender than Baby. Baby's been decent on D outside of foul trouble, and Pollard's been more foul prone. Defense from the C position is also less important off the bench as it is in the starting lineup IMO.

As a side note, Oberto isn't defensive minded, btw.
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Post#29 » by The Corey's » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:01 pm

Al Jefferson took forever to get a starting job on a terrible team, no way Doc puts a rookie in, even if he deserves it. Its his track record.
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Post#30 » by Banks2Pierce » Sun Jan 6, 2008 11:06 pm

Honestly, I'm still in favor of starting Perk at center, but I feel that Davis should finish the games at the 4 instead of Posey.

The most surprising thing to me last night was Davis' defense on Maxiell and Wallace. He looked awesome out there. What a game to break out in.
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Post#31 » by Datruth345 » Mon Jan 7, 2008 3:21 am

from my own observation

big baby did an excellent job keeping z out of the paint, and limiting him

but i'm still rolling with perk
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Post#32 » by lojowo » Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:17 pm

Having Perk starts helps set the defensive tone of the team. Putting in Big Baby make KG play center which I do not want to do.

I'd prefer Big Babys offense when Perk and one of the KG/PP/RA is off the floor. Gives C's someone inside who can catch and shoot, taking advantage of the double teams.

I think Teams are more apt to double team with only two of KG/PP/RA out there, trying to limit there touches on offense. Thats a great scenario with Davis inside because he lovese rolls to the hole and taking it strong to the hoop.

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