NYK-SAC-CLE-ORL

[ecuhus1981]

***Based upon gr3en's "Interesting..." deal***

Trade ID #4395437

New York Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Ron Artest, Larry Hughes, Brian Cook, Keyon Dooling
Outgoing Players: Randolph Morris, Nate Robinson, Renaldo Balkman, Fred Jones, Malik Rose, Jamal Crawford
NYK reels in (possibly) their savior, while not having to relinquish Lee or any future 1st-rounders (ya know, just in case Artest isn't their savior).
Marbury, Hughes, Artest, Randolph, Curry
Dooling, Collins, Jeffries, Lee, Cook



Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Nate Robinson, Renaldo Balkman, Cedric Simmons, future 1st from ORL
Outgoing Players: Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas
SAC sheds over $10 million off of this year's salary cap, and returns 3 quality uptempo players to surround their young core.
Udrih, Martin, Salmons, Moore, Miller
Robinson, Garcia, Balkman, Simmons, Hawes



Cleveland Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Fred Jones, Malik Rose, J.J. Redick, Tony Battie
Outgoing Players: Shannon Brown, Cedric Simmons, Larry Hughes
CLE saves a little salary in the long-term, brings a veteran presence to its frontcourt and moves a malcontented young slashing SG for a gunner who might find his fit alongside Lebron.
Gibson, Pavlovic, James, Gooden, Ilgauskas
D. Jones, D. Brown, Marshall, Rose, Varejao



Orlando Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players: Randolph Morris, Jamal Crawford, Kenny Thomas, Shannon Brown
Outgoing Players: J.J. Redick, Brian Cook, Keyon Dooling, Tony Battie, future 1st to SAC
ORL shoulders some salary, but returns a balanced now-and-later foursome.
Nelson, Crawford, Lewis, Turkoglu, Howard
Arroyo, Brown, Bogans, Thomas, Foyle

[Smills91]

I really still don't see the purpose in this...The Kings have contracts that line up and expire simultaneously...getting under the cap NOW just puts us at the cap threshold, not below it. If we keep Artest and allow those contracts to expire simultaneously then we keep Ron AND get cap space. The means don't justify the cost here.

[ecuhus1981]

Sooo, you would like more contracts coming back to you?

[Smills91]

Sooo, you would like more contracts coming back to you?

You'd have to move SAR/Brad for expirings to get the Kings under the cap....as is, the way you have it set up...the Kings lose Artest, don't really replace him with anything significant and just line up to have salaries right around the cap threshold, not below it.

[ecuhus1981]

Rome wasn't built in a day, my friend. The rest of your (very necessary) rebuilding project is entirely outside of the scope of this deal.

I want you to assess this deal ON ITS OWN MERITS. Moving forward, you would obviously look to deal Bibby/Miller/SAR with another proposal (or two, or three). Who do you know that has revamped their entire roster and plunged full-bore into a rebuild mode with ONE trade?! Minnesota, for example, added the MIA deal onto its rebuild project, and there figures to be more to follow.

P.S. Lay off the "well, all the savings does us no good because we like that all our players expire in 2010" argument. It's tired, and absolutely riddled with illogic. Ask any GM in the NBA if they would rather save $10mil or not, even if it didn't affect their ability to g oafter high-priced FAs, and they would take the savings in a millisecond. Plus, it would be nice, if the Kings are going to be as a bad as a rebuilding project would suggest, if they were able to clear some capspace earlier, for salaries of the high-lottery pick(s) they figure to get in the next two drafts before 2010.

[MagicFan3]

Keep Jamal Crawford the hell away from my team...

[_SRV_]

I like it for the Kings.

[Bac2Basics]

How "future" is the first that's supposed to go to SAC?
What if any protections does it have?

[Smills91]

Rome wasn't built in a day, my friend. The rest of your (very necessary) rebuilding project is entirely outside of the scope of this deal.

I want you to assess this deal ON ITS OWN MERITS. Moving forward, you would obviously look to deal Bibby/Miller/SAR with another proposal (or two, or three). Who do you know that has revamped their entire roster and plunged full-bore into a rebuild mode with ONE trade?! Minnesota, for example, added the MIA deal onto its rebuild project, and there figures to be more to follow.

P.S. Lay off the "well, all the savings does us no good because we like that all our players expire in 2010" argument. It's tired, and absolutely riddled with illogic. Ask any GM in the NBA if they would rather save $10mil or not, even if it didn't affect their ability to g oafter high-priced FAs, and they would take the savings in a millisecond. Plus, it would be nice, if the Kings are going to be as a bad as a rebuilding project would suggest, if they were able to clear some capspace earlier, for salaries of the high-lottery pick(s) they figure to get in the next two drafts before 2010.

That's the point that I AM ARGUING....I'm willing to wait out those contracts 2-3 years, re-sign Artest, allow Hawes to develop and get a couple nice draft picks along the way.

I'd rather KEEP Artest than lose him for practically nothing.

Kings future core in 3 years could be:

C: Spencer Hawes, Draft choice
PF: FA - 2010, Justin Williams, Draft Choice
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, John Salmons
PG: Draft Choice, Beno Udrih, Quincy Douby

I like that young core. Plus you add 3 more draft picks, 1-2 of those easily lottery or near lotto picks, count the draft record of Petrie then Absolutely, I could see the Kings back in the thick of things in 3-4 years.

Doing stupid trade that dilute talent and don't get back GOOD young prospects or decent draft selections do the Kings no good, when dealing with a 27 year old Artest.

[deNIEd]

For the King's standpoint, I'd like it if Robinson was an sent off to another team, and an expiring comes back to Sacramento.

I love Beno, but I don't see him as a starter on an championship team, something all teams should be building towards, but I do see Beno as a quality backup. Robinson would therefore be 3rd in line, and a waste. Instead, if Robinson was an expiring, and somehow you got clev to send a 1st to sacrameto, it'd be a yes.

Robinson - Useless to kings, better if expiring
Balkman - turning out to being a dud, but still could help the kings
Simmons - real low prospect, but good for the kings
Orl 1st - going to be 25+, so basically nothing

So if the kings can get a 16-25 pick, it'd be good

[rpa]

I think it's OK VALUE for Artest but I also don't think the Kings are looking for straight up value. They want players that will actually help them and be a part of the core. IMO Robinson isn't needed at all (as already stated Beno's probably better as a backup PG plus Douby is turning into a pretty good overall player), Balkman's coming close to a bust AND the Kings already have 2 much better SFs, Simmons is just so-so (nothing spectacular) and the pick is going to be really low. In reality I think this gives the Kings maybe 1 role player to add to the core in the long run and that's with the pick.

[loserX]

I really still don't see the purpose in this...The Kings have contracts that line up and expire simultaneously...getting under the cap NOW just puts us at the cap threshold, not below it. If we keep Artest and allow those contracts to expire simultaneously then we keep Ron AND get cap space. The means don't justify the cost here.

The cap is not the only financial watermark that counts. The Kings are going to plow into the luxury tax next year...they're almost there now, and if they keep Artest, Kevin Martin's extension is going to be almost entirely in the tax costing them double (plus payments to whomever they use to fill out the roster...Udrih/Watkins/Justin Williams/players from other teams).

You get 3 young players of varying levels of ability AND a first for Artest, plus KT's contract disappears, saving the team possibly $36M or more. If you don't think that matters, I don't know what to tell you.

[Smills91]

-= original quote snipped =-



The cap is not the only financial watermark that counts. The Kings are going to plow into the luxury tax next year...they're almost there now, and if they keep Artest, Kevin Martin's extension is going to be almost entirely in the tax costing them double (plus payments to whomever they use to fill out the roster...Udrih/Watkins/Justin Williams/players from other teams).

You get 3 young players of varying levels of ability AND a first for Artest, plus KT's contract disappears, saving the team possibly $36M or more. If you don't think that matters, I don't know what to tell you.

If they sit still they'll be right AT the lux tax...IF ron opts IN. If he opts out then unless they sign him to some gargatuan contract...they'll be right at the lux tax...then Bibby's deal comes off the books.

The lux tax isn't really an issue for the Kings at all. If they do exceed it, it'll be by a million or two...I'm sure the Kings could find someone to dump a SAR next year when he's healthy.

BTW Watkins was cut. Justin Williams gets a minimum deal for this and next year. Udrih will probably require a portion of the MLE.

[hermes]

-= original quote snipped =-



The cap is not the only financial watermark that counts. The Kings are going to plow into the luxury tax next year...they're almost there now, and if they keep Artest, Kevin Martin's extension is going to be almost entirely in the tax costing them double (plus payments to whomever they use to fill out the roster...Udrih/Watkins/Justin Williams/players from other teams).

You get 3 young players of varying levels of ability AND a first for Artest, plus KT's contract disappears, saving the team possibly $36M or more. If you don't think that matters, I don't know what to tell you.

thats all that seems to matter anymore, saving money

[loserX]

If they sit still they'll be right AT the lux tax...IF ron opts IN. If he opts out then unless they sign him to some gargatuan contract...they'll be right at the lux tax...then Bibby's deal comes off the books.

Are you sure? Shamsports (which isn't always right) has the team at $64.5M next year with Artest in. (The tax this year was $67M, if anyone's wondering.)

But Martin's extension isn't added yet...that's about $11M, right? So even if Artest opts out, they'll be several million into the tax with Martin and the roster fill-outs. If Artest stays, it'll be even more (since anything above what he already makes will be doubled).

Do you have info very different from Shamsports'?

[Max Power]

Why do people want to pawn Jamal Crawford on us? Magic fans are aware that he's pretty crappy, and you want us to drop Dooling? No thanks, you can have Redick though, he's as worthless as they come.

[MJallday59]

Few things...

1. Magic don't want Crawford, we could have got him in the Francis deal if we really wanted him

2. Sacramento has said numerous times....No Lee...No Artest. I don't think that's going to change

3. Nobody...and I mean Nobody is going to want to take Larry Hughes right now...The only way I see that happening is if a boat load of draft picks are included.

[chriswebb86]

Overall, this is one of the better deals I have seeing for Artest in awhile. I dont know If I would take it, but its something I think the Kings would at least consider.

[AxnJxn00]

magic dont need your trash (crawford)

[gr3en]

I did a revised version of the first deal i proposed. This is the contingency plan if Sacramento really demands for Lee

Knicks give:
Morris, Rose, Lee, James, Crawford, Jones
Knicks get
Hughes, Artest, Simmons, Thomas

Lineup:
Curry - Simmons
Randolph - Jeffries - Thomas
Artest - Balkman - Chandler
Hughes - Q -
Marbury - Nate - Mardy

Reasons:
Upgrade defensively the expense of Lee. Simmons is still young and is known for his interior D which the Knicks could really use.

Cavs give:
Hughes, Simmons
Cavs get:
Rose, Battie, Augustine

Lineup:
Z - Varejao - Dw.Jones
Gooden - Rose - Battie - Augustine
Lebron - Newble - Marshall
Pavlovic - D.Brown - S.Brown
Gibson - Da.Jones - Snow

cut Dw.Jones/Augustine

Reasons:
Split hughes deal into 3 smaller and shorter deals.

Orlando gives:
Redick, Augustine, Battie
Orlando gets:
Crawford, Morris

Lineup:
Howard - Foyle - Gortat
Hedo - Garrity - Morris
Lewis - Evans - Cook
Crawford - Bogans - Dooling
Arroyo - Nelson

Reasons:
Get a starting calibur SG and add a young PF/C who happens to be a buddy of Dwight and is an expiring contract in exchange for 3 hardly used players.

Sacramento gives:
Artest, Thomas
Sacramento gets:
F.Jones, Lee, J.James, Redick

Lineup:
Miller - Hawes - Williams
Lee - Moore - SAR
Salmons - Garcia - D.Jones
K-Mart - F. Jones - Redick
Bibby - Udrih - Douby

Cut James/Williams

Reasons:
Get their starting PF for the future in David Lee. Exchange little used Kenny Thomas for Jerome James(same length of contract but less dollars) and 2 expiring contracts of F.Jones and Redick(next year is TO).