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What's Up With Ray Allen?

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return2glory
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What's Up With Ray Allen? 

Post#1 » by return2glory » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:06 am

I know he has a pinch nerve, but what's up with Ray? Even befoe the injury, he hasn't been himself. Over his last 5 games, he has failed to score in double figures in 3 of them. He has had games of :

1. 2 points in 35 minutes vs Memphis
2. 9 points in 28 minutes vs Detroit
3. 8 points in tonights game in 41 minutes. He also had only 1 rebound and 1 assist.

Ray Allen has been awful in the last week and a half, even before the injury. What is going on with this guy? If he is hurt, he shouldn't be playing.

There is no way we are a championship type team if Ray Allen keeps playing like this.
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Post#2 » by Cyclical » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:34 am

It seems to me that he may be hampered by some injury. His shot is way off and he also doesn't seem to move as fluidly as he has earlier in the season. Maybe something is more serious than we know.
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Post#3 » by TheCelticsMan » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:10 pm

ohh isn't this funny. i addressed the ray allen situation almost two months ago if not two months ago with my own thread because I could tell and anyone that has seen ray allen could tell something isnt right. Now, all the bashing that I received for the thread has taken a 180 turn and with the two recent losses people are crying about it all over the forum. talk about hypocrites.
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Post#4 » by Jammer » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:16 pm

I just did a historical comparison of Ray Allen versus Kobe.

Historically, head to head, they have shot with 1 percentage point of each each from regular and 3 point land, with Kobe taking more shots,
and Ray averaging 20.5 ppg, 5 rpg and 4 apg with Kobe guarding him.

The answer is simple.

Something, physically, is probably wrong.

The other thing is, is that Ray, like Eddie House, is primarily a catch and shoot guy.

Ray has to do a lot of ball handling for the Celts. So, even though he takes about the same number of shots as Pierce on a lot of nights, now he has to get his shot for himself, whereas previously, say in Milwaukee, he had Sam Cassell pitching the ball to him after he'd make his cut to free himself.

Ray could also use a lot more picks to free himself.
Something, for those who remember, someone like Dave Cowens excelled at.

That's another reason why I'm so looking to get Voskuhl this year, rather than waiting until the summer. Of course, in the summer, Kurt Thomas will also be an unrestricted free agent, but probably want so much of the mid-level, there won't be any left for a point guard, too. Too bad Milwaukee already has Bogut, Yi, Dan Gadzuric, Michael Ruffin and Charlie Villanueva. Can't see them having any interest in Scalabrine with that lineup. Hopefully they trade someone away before the deadline. They need help at guard and the wing.
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Post#5 » by Kaykoose » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:20 pm

Are you kidding me Jammer? Ray had the ball in his hands about 70% of the time in Seattle. That is definatly not the problem, he can create for himself. Allen isnt a shooter, hes a scorer.

He was creating for himself early in the season and he was shooting something like 55% from the field and 50% from 3PT for the 1st 7 games or so. Physically, there is something wrong with him. Hes been shooting poorly for like a month now, no way a player of his caliber is just in a slump for that long.
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Post#6 » by MalReyn » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:31 pm

My sense is it is a variety of nagging injuries.

The one I'm most concerned about is his ankle, which coud easily affect the lift on his jump shot.

My fingers are crossed he can heal up while still player 35+ minutes a game. If not, we may need to either (a) Cut back his minutes dramatically for awhile, or (b) Just sit him for a week or however long it takes for him to heal up.
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Post#7 » by ddb » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:02 pm

Ray Allen is struggling to find a groove on this team. There's no doubt about it. But he's one of the hardest working cats in this league and he will work through these struggles.

Doc Rivers needs to find more spots for RayAllen. A guy like KG has the offense run through him and a guy like paul pierce can create offense in his sleep...i wouldn't worry about those two guys...ray on the other hand needs the ball in his hands some more...i would experiment with him at the point a little bit when rondo is out of the game. we can't have him wasting away in the corne waiting for an open 3...give him the ball and let him create...
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Post#8 » by Jammer » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:06 pm

Compared to last year, when Ray averaged 26 ppg,
Ray averaged 7.4 more FGA, netting 1.8 additional FTA, per game.

Historically, based on their career (roughly 10 season) averages,
PGA averaged 67 ppg with 10 more FGA's per game.

PGA also averaged 20 FTA's per game, versus the 16 that they currently average (with 10 less Field Goal Attempts).

So, if they took 10 more shots, they'd probably get to the line 4 more times, also, and be right out their career averages.

But the problems with the Celtics go beyond Ray shooting a little less than his career average in terms of attempts and percentage.

Although Ray performing closer to his capabilities would help hugely, the Celtics still need a backup center to Perk (And what if Perk goes down), a true backup point guard to Rondo who can handle the ball, and another wing player in case Ray or Tony isn't available.

Scalabrine is superfluous.

And if they get another center, Powe will be also.
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Post#9 » by humblebum » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:20 pm

ddb wrote:Ray Allen is struggling to find a groove on this team. There's no doubt about it. But he's one of the hardest working cats in this league and he will work through these struggles.

Doc Rivers needs to find more spots for RayAllen. A guy like KG has the offense run through him and a guy like paul pierce can create offense in his sleep...i wouldn't worry about those two guys...ray on the other hand needs the ball in his hands some more...i would experiment with him at the point a little bit when rondo is out of the game. we can't have him wasting away in the corne waiting for an open 3...give him the ball and let him create...


With all due respect, I think that this is a terrible idea. Ray has really, really struggled when tasked to create and initiate offense for the team. He is rather easily trapped and is only a so-so pick and roll guy, mostly because he tries to dribble through the trap rather than pass out of it.

The C's are struggling with how to balance the offensive games of KG, Paul and Ray right now. I think a lot of it has to do with how the minutes are staggered and the player combinations/rotations. The other half has to do with the inconsistency with which the C's actually run plays for Ray... and I don't consider having him run the Pick and Roll/Pop HIS type of play. The guy needs to be able to work that baseline pick/screen game with backdoor cuts and curls and all that. Right now the C's don't feature that enough.

I think the first thing that needs to be done is to stagger the minutes of Ray and Pierce more effectively. Ray shouldn't be tasked to play the first 15-16 minutes of the game with him becoming the #1 ballhandling option for a unit featuring House, Posey, TA and Glen Davis alongside him. That's stupid. Posey should sub in around the 3-4 minute mark for Pierce which makes BBD the first 4-5 off the bench, he or Pollard. Pierce can then come back in for Ray in the last minute of the first or the beginning of the second, whereby he becomes the main option and ballhandler for the second unit. But with that Perk needs to play more in the second quarter. All to often he hardly sees the court in the second quarter.
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Post#10 » by Cyclical » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:01 pm

Jammer wrote:The other thing is, is that Ray, like Eddie House, is primarily a catch and shoot guy.

Ray has to do a lot of ball handling for the Celts. So, even though he takes about the same number of shots as Pierce on a lot of nights, now he has to get his shot for himself, whereas previously, say in Milwaukee, he had Sam Cassell pitching the ball to him after he'd make his cut to free himself.


Actually the opposite is true. Ray has had the ball in his hands for most of his career. He was always the primary scorer and could create for himself with some pretty nifty moves. This season he's probably getting the least touches since his rookie year. He is being used now mostly as a catch and shoot guy but that's a huge change for him from years past. I'm sure the adjustment is a small part of the problem. Out of all 3 guys he's had to adjust the most to a new roll with a versatile guy like Pierce on the team.

Still, it seems health may be the main issue. Who knows. I hope he gets better.
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Post#11 » by meatball sub » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:16 pm

As long as Ray gets his **** together and gets used to his role on this team come playoff time I'm not worried. I can't lie though, I've been disappointed with his performance as a whole this season. He's been great at times but has been mediocre-terrible for most of the year. Granted he's had to sacrifice the most of all out of GPA but he was looking really good the first 5 or so game and then became really inconsistent.

I really don't know what's wrong with him, there's probably an injury we don't know about. I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt for the next couple months as far as geting comfortable with his role but we all saw how this team played the first few games of the year. It didn't look like he was having much trouble to me.
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Post#12 » by return2glory » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:50 pm

For those that think Ray's problem is that needs to get used to playing on this team, I feel you are off.

In his last 10 games, Ray Allen is averaging 13.9 points in his last 10 games. His rebounding is at 3.1 per game during this time.


In his first 10 games, Ray averaged 20.3 ppg. He averaged 4.5 rebs per game.

For those that think there is something wrong with Allen physically, I would have to agree with you.
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Post#13 » by GreenGrizz » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:06 pm

Here is a smiple answer. He needs to play with a good playmaker.
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Post#14 » by reggielewis » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:38 pm

yeah i agree i dont think there is something wrong with him, i think we forget about him too much and we are not playing to his strengths. why is this guy at the top of the key trying to beat his man off the dribble oppose to running of screens and coming of picks? I love the way Detroit utilizes Rip Hamilton, or Indy use to use Reggie because it played to his strength. Ray should be running off the base line, coming of a curl, having his man being picked off by Perk or KG and going into his shot. If his man trails him on the play create the mismatch, or allow him to take a dribble and go to the hoop. This is why I say if Rondo is not going to be allowed to create for his teammates (alal chris paul, Steve Nash) than KG has got to be the general out there. I really think Rays slump is more a correlation of PP and KG being the focal points and Ray gets cold when he doesnt touch the ball 4-5 trips down the floor.
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Post#15 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:43 pm

He's the oldest of GPA, he's playing too many minutes, and he's shooting a career low .413- he may just be struggling to adjust to a new role, he may have a secret injury, or he may just be on the verge of falling off the aging-shooting-guard precipice (Jones, Eddie; Finley, Michael; Houston, Allan).

Ray Allen was the big name that made KG agree to come to Boston- now that Garnett's here, there are Ray Allen trades that could make this team better.
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Post#16 » by PPAW4Life » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:13 am

Ray Allen needs to shoot more and find a good rhythm....if there was something seriously wrong with him then he wouldn't be playing.

He is missing too many open shots and maybe that is something he's not used to. Maybe he likes having a defender rushing at him?
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Post#17 » by return2glory » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:56 am

GreenGrizz wrote:Here is a smiple answer. He needs to play with a good playmaker.


Who was he playing with in the 1st 10 games when he was averaging 20 ppg?

Try another answer.
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Post#18 » by bruno sundov » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:13 am

I say that recent injury is worse than expected. he should sit for a week or 2. Just to heal up. The C's will still win a majority of their games without him. No need to push it to hard now. We need hm for after February.

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