Question from Seattle...

Gant · Post #13 » by **Gant** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 12:29 pm

Nobody's a bigger Rondo guy than me, but... If you had Jefferson down low in chronic single coverage it wouldn't even be fair.

Big Baby could play point on that team and they'd still score at will.

wigglestrue · Post #14 » by **wigglestrue** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 12:49 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Rondo at the point.

QFT.

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:If teams want to gamble right now, they can leave Rondo or Perk.

...and Rondo's been burning them.

Can't overstate how important Rondo has been to the team. Can't overstate the chemistry issues there'd be with another "Big" who needs touches. Can't overstate the reason why this team has 60 wins: Defense. Defense. Deeeeeeeeeee-fense. Rondo and Perkins have been as perfect a complementary PG/C combo for the Big 3 as one can hope for. Jefferson would give you a top 5-10 PF/C. Rondo has already earned the right to be in the top 10 PG discussion. Which is more important to have, if you already have a big man like Garnett and two elite scorers like Pierce and Allen? The point guard. Statistically, note that Rondo's FG% is only 1 point lower than Jefferson's.

CeltsfaninDC · Post #15 » by **CeltsfaninDC** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 12:55 pm

DynastyInTheMaking wrote:You people are crazy if you think Jefferson/Telfair << Rondo/Perkins

Perk had his few huge games but if it was Big Al lining up next to KG, Big Al would definitely be posting better #s than KG. You think Telfair is that horrible? He is averaging slightly less points and more assists than Rondo and that is on a BAD Minny team.

Jefferson is not as good defensively as Perk. They don't need more points, they need better defense on the 5 and rebounds. Perk gives them both. Having Jefferson means that KG would have to guard the 5s or have Jeff coming off the bench as the 6th man. I don't think either of those scenarios works.
Rondo is playing amazingly well this year, but he was the BIG question mark before the season. In hindsight, keeping him out of the trade with SEA was a big win for the Cs and DA.

floyd · Post #16 » by **floyd** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 1:46 pm

For this year, Rondo and Perk easy.

3 years from now is when we'll miss big Al's scoring.

meatball sub · Post #17 » by **meatball sub** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 2:33 pm

If we had Jefferson and Telfair instead of Rondo and Perk this year all of the preseason doubters would have been right. The chemistry on that team would be AWFUL.

GoGoCeltics · Post #18 » by **GoGoCeltics** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 4:00 pm

Rondo/Perk for this team.

Al Jeff for the future in general.

tombattor · Post #19 » by **tombattor** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 4:12 pm

Definitely Jefferson. PP-AJ-KG front line will make the original Big 3 proud. Not to mention Ray on the wing. Rondo's been very good, but the difference between Jefferson and Perk would make up for the loss of Rondo.

AWalkerREMIX · Post #20 » by **AWalkerREMIX** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 4:23 pm

If I saw Telfair in Celtics green again, I'd shoot myself.

billfromBoston · Post #21 » by **billfromBoston** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:29 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:It's not so much a matter of Jefferson/Telfair being outright better than Rondo/Perkins. Jefferson is definitely the best individual player here. It's more a matter of how **** amazing a frontcourt of Garnett and Perkins is defensively. And to a lesser extent how much Jefferson is costing the T-Wolves, as well as how **** awful Telfair is.

...half this statement is correct, the other half is tripe from a Celtics fan who doesn't pay much attention to anything other than his favorite team...

Perkins/Rondo are a better fit for this team to succeed because they are defensive oriented and complement the 3 stars better...

A Jefferson/KG front line would be rediculous offensively and on the boards, but I doubt Jefferson would get to Perk's level defensively this season and possibly in any of the next 3 seasons-Perk is that good defensively imo...

...Telfair has actually played extremely well, and for all the Minny bashing that's gone on around the league, that team has played very well as a group since about mid January/early February and Telfair has run the point masterfully for them up until his recent injury...he makes very smart decisions with the ball and has proven he can be a lead guard...pretty sure he's had just as many solid scoring games as Rondo and hasn't forced offense at all-he'll be getting a nice contract after this year..Rondo is clearly the better prospect, from his defense to his rebounding and fancy finishes...but Telfair is far from the "bust" that a lot of Celtics fans made him out to be...he's proving he belongs and will be a quality starting PG in this league...

...But as I said, the Celtics have a better lineup for the NOW with Perk/Rondo and they have time to find another impact PF or C to replace KG in time-which probably won't be needed for 5-6 years...Powe ain't such a bad offensive contributor and KG will be popping jumpers until he's 38 years old, so getting production out of the frontcourt isnt going to be a concern any time soon...

Love Al Jefferson...but team doesn't really need his offense, as great as it would be...the defense is more important from the two "others" we've got...

MyInsatiableOne · Post #22 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:41 pm

bove310 wrote:If we had Jefferson and Telfair instead of Rondo and Perk this year all of the preseason doubters would have been right. The chemistry on that team would be AWFUL.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #23 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:42 pm

AWalkerREMIX wrote:If I saw Telfair in Celtics green again, I'd shoot myself.

Unless he shot you first (remembering the gun incident from last year....)

ermocrate · Post #24 » by **ermocrate** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:59 pm

Rondo is an all-star on the making, hopefully we will have a big body that can learn from KG one day. But the future is NOW, without Rondo we have less possibilities to win a title, guard TP it's one of my major issues.

Tricky Ricky · Post #25 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 6:22 pm

bove310 wrote:If we had Jefferson and Telfair instead of Rondo and Perk this year all of the preseason doubters would have been right. The chemistry on that team would be AWFUL.

I dont think you can say that without actually seeing it, I think Telfair would benefit like Rondo is right now, and Jefferson would prob be made an All Star from being left open soo many times.

Edit: that being said its win win either way in my mind

Rocky5000 · Post #26 » by **Rocky5000** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 6:27 pm

I'd rather have Jefferson/Telfair. Big AL is just too much of an upgrade over Perkins to not go for that deal. You lose a little bit with the Telfair/Rondo swap. But Rondo isn't really asked to score, and if Big Al were on the team, Telfair would be looked to score even less. I think that you can't judge Big Al's defense in a vacuum. If he joined this team, I imagine his defensive intensity would have picked up to the level of everyone else. KG makes playing good defense contagious, and we don't have a player on the team right now who takes a defensive possession off.

Post #27 » by **sully00** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 7:30 pm

You can evealuate these things your own way but I can make a pretty rock solid case the Sebastian Telfair is the worst starting PG in the NBA, if not starter period. As great as Jefferson is offensively he is that bad defensively.

To illustrate the Al point before you all start beating your chests, he is the Wolves best player and one of the best offensive players and rebounders in the NBA and his team is almost 9 points better with him off the floor. Now some of this can be explained away by how pieces fit together obviously we know Gomes and Al are not a clinic in lateral quickness and are terrible tandem. But it is tough to get around one of the worst teams in the league being 9 points better with you on the bench.

Conversely the Boston Celtics are almost 5 points better with Perk on the floor. I am not one to blindly put defense ahead of offense but this team has 3 great offensive weapons as well as other solid pieces on the bench, with Perk being solid and Rondo very good offensively and both are about as good as it gets defensively.

In a few years when KG hangs 'em up then it will be time to miss Al's killer offensive moves and rebounding, but till then we are better off with what Perk brings to the table. Al's problems defensively aren't simply effort and intensity he has some flaws. As for Telfair he may look okay out on the floor but his production on both ends is plain awful.

Being a good offensive team and a great defensive team is giving this team a chance at a title, I see plenty of great offensive teams that are average or worse defensively and they have no shot.

wigglestrue · Post #28 » by **wigglestrue** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 9:07 pm

Rocky5000 wrote:I'd rather have Jefferson/Telfair. Big AL is just too much of an upgrade over Perkins to not go for that deal. You lose a little bit with the Telfair/Rondo swap. But Rondo isn't really asked to score, and if Big Al were on the team, Telfair would be looked to score even less. I think that you can't judge Big Al's defense in a vacuum. If he joined this team, I imagine his defensive intensity would have picked up to the level of everyone else. KG makes playing good defense contagious, and we don't have a player on the team right now who takes a defensive possession off.

I don't think Telfair is the worst player in the NBA or anything...but a Rondo/Telfair swap is as much of downgrade as Jefferson/Perkins would be an upgrade. And maybe you've noticed that Rondo "isn't really asked to score" but winds up scoring a 10 or so points a game at a fantastic 49% clip often during crucial moments when teams have amped up their defense on the Big 3. Not to mention that Rondo is a vastly superior defender and distributor.

Post #29 » by **Spin Move** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 9:14 pm

Id rather have Jefferson, Rondo is a stud, and Perk tunred into a solid starter, but Jefferson is a franchise player, its not a no brainer its a tough call, but if we had that lineup all we need is a pointgaurd who can defend and knock down 3's heck we wouldnt have really needed a offensive point guard, just a good combo gaurd. posey could have played three and allen point.

ermocrate · Post #30 » by **ermocrate** » Thu Apr 3, 2008 10:32 pm

Strange thing is that yesterday everybody was talking about a better PG than Rajon, today we don't need a PG at all. :roll:

Bad-Thoma · Post #31 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Fri Apr 4, 2008 2:38 am

I'm a huge Big Al fan, he's definitely shut up some early doubters, but I'd never trade what success we've had for what could be. I'd be hard pressed to picture Al being a better compliment to KG than Perk, even if he is the better by far overall player, Perk just fills a much different role. It's been good to see Telfair play well also, he was getting thrown under the bus here at far to young an age, but I'd take Rondo in a minute, Doc is hard on his point guards, and Rondo has the perfect "I just want to learn" attitude about everything that seems to fit. This team compliments each other really well, I can't imagine wanting to change any of it.

Post #32 » by **ParticleMan** » Fri Apr 4, 2008 4:21 am

I don't even understand the premise of this thread. Are you (OP) saying that we could have kept Al if we'd offered Perk+Rondo instead? That's nucking futs, to put it mildly. The ONLY way we get KG is by trading Al.

And as much as I love Perk and Rondo, I'd take Big Al. Can you imagine Big Al on the floor with the other 3? Holy moly. We wouldn't be #1 in D but we'd sure as hell be #1 in O. And I bet KG could get Al to play some D. Not Perk level, but decent enough.