Break it up

triplet1984 · Post #37 » by **triplet1984** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:48 am

Reposting here:

No more getting whooped in points in the paint, no more getting out-rebounded by 10+, no more soft interior D, no more situations where the only "big" man willing to bang around is an undersized role player off the bench who cant rebound, no more big men who spend all their time chucking up long jump shots*, no more BS where suck-wads like Theo Ratliff or that scrub we had last year in the Orlando trade are our "insurance policies"

*and yes this includes McNice, just because he has one or two games where he gets super hot from jumpers, and everybody starts talking about his heart and how much he wants a ring and IGNORES the obvious deficiences in our front-court. At the very least one of Sheed or Dice needs to be shipped out.

One part of this is obviously getting a coach who will emphasize things like that, so Flip should be dumped but that won't solve the problem completely.
Yes there are problems in our backcourt (particularly "Mr. Regular Season") but its not practical to expect Joe D to blow the whole thing up so you have to choose, backcourt or frontcourt, and I think, with the way we get outhustled on boards, outscored in the paint, and the way our interior D gets shredded, and the way we depend on the "jumpshot percentage" to score from our big men... the answer is clear.

Keep the backcourt, dump the front-court. No one should be off-limits, except maybe Amir. Maybe.

Low-Ki · Post #38 » by **Low-Ki** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:52 am

You can only get quality bigs in the draft anymore. And we're not going to get that at #29. We're going to have to bottom out again before we rebuild or we can hang around as a middle of the pack team and never get the top picks needed to land a franchise big.

m23uza1hem36 · Post #39 » by **m23uza1hem36** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:52 am

Chauncey Billups- He needs to say, he's still at the top of his game and maybe with a new coach he won't be big-headed.

Richard Hamilton- He needs to stay hes still at the top of his prime.

Rasheed- I think we wait till his contract runs out and let him go thats valuable cap space.

Tayshaun Prince- He just sucks in the ECF, since 2004 when he emerged he's done nothing.

McDyess- I really feel for this guy, I think it's time to let him go though, or put him back on the bench.

triplet1984 · Post #40 » by **triplet1984** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:53 am

Hell, dump the old guys and roll with Maxiell, Amir, and Samb. Yes our front-court will suck in a differnet way but at least it'll be exciting.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #41 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:54 am

Grey wrote:Yeah, let's break up a contender so we can join sub par ranks of the weak Eastern Conference. Maybe we can compete with the likes of New Jersey or Indiana next year. Hell, maybe we'll even luck out like Miami and contend for a good draft pick.

Seriously. Anything less than perfection is unacceptable to some of you guys. I know the goal is to win a championship, but you don't break up a good thing and start all over. I'm ok with a trade or two, but you don't "blow it up". Thank god Dumars has more sense than that.

I know many of you are down now, but this is a reasonable post.

You lost to a team that had Garnett and Pierce that had the league's best record and best defense all season long. That team got better as the playoffs went on, especially once Ray Allen found his shot.

The Pistons IMHO played quite competitively.

Besides Rasheed Wallace, who else on the team plays elite post defense? Prince has been a real hero in the past and is a quality player on defense but he was going against a darned good player in Paul Pierce.

Chauncey and Rip BOTH played through injuries.

Some of you have been spoiled by success and have terribly high expectations.

IMHO it was a good season and the Pistons lost to a better team. I thought the Pistons would be in the finals, but Boston got better as the playoffs went along.

Detroit did their best, but without anybody but Billups being a true star I don't think they have anything to be ashamed of.

If Wallace is moved Detroit better get a darned good player for him or the team will be worse IMHO.

blaha112 · Post #42 » by **blaha112** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:54 am

i'd like to see walter herman go, that guy drives me nuts.

Out:
Herman
Billups
Rasheed

In:
Sam Cassel
Chris Kaman
Shuan livingston

Make it hap!

The reason behind it is I want to see detroit with a new nickname. Right now i thought it was "we are better than you so i don't care"
I'd like it to be "the handsome men team"

Dirtgrain · Post #43 » by **Dirtgrain** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:55 am

Grey wrote:I know the goal is to win a championship, but you don't break up a good thing and start all over. I'm ok with a trade or two, but you don't "blow it up". Thank god Dumars has more sense than that.

Our good thing is not getting better, seemingly. Before a debate launches, you have to be really clear about what constitutes "blowing up" the team. I want to see Billups replaced--and maybe Wallace replaced. Is that blowing up the team?

I'm sick of Billups not being able to guard quick point guards. This may be an unrealistic expectation on my part, as there are quick guards whom nobody can cover that well (although Hunter seems pretty good for his age). I want to see the Pistons have a player like Eric Snow was, defensively, even as a back up.

I also think Billups is the core of the blase attitude that haunts this team. He's tough at times, sure. And if he could still be Mr. Big Shot, I'd want to keep him (he had a nice three-point play tonight near the end. . .). I wonder about his leadership tonight. How do you all rate him on his leadership?

Garnett owned us at the end of the game, and I'm not sure we can blame any particular player. Who in the league can we acquire (realistically) who is capable of this?

Still Wallace looks like he has lost something. Is it just age? Temperament? I don't know that we can get anything valuable for him. He could be a good back-up player, if he was suited for it, as he reportedly works well with younger players.

Our overall gauge for getting rid of a player should be whether or not we can acquire someone better for him--or someone potentially better for him. I'm not sure what our players are worth.

I'm sick of not having a player who wants to step up at the end of a game, every time we need it. Yes, we have players who can step up. But tonight, I had this feeling that they all didn't want the ball. This might be wishful thinking, as there aren't that many players who can do that regularly.

BIG BEN'S FRO · Post #44 » by **BIG BEN'S FRO** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:58 am

Here are the realistic hopes for next year:

Likely a new coach, and some help at C.

Without a questions, our frontcourt needs a rehaul. I see Sheed as expendable ONLY once we have a legit center. Until then, we just have to make due. Heck, even Prince should be concerned after this season. Billups should maintain intensity now that he will start having his minutes pressed.

We should be targeting free agents like Brand, Josh Smith, Marion, or Childress, and strongly consider making a move to NY #6.

This is going to be a super tough offseason for Joe D when everyone knows we want to make moves.

GJense4181 · Post #45 » by **GJense4181** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:00 am

How could we afford any of those free agents?

pistons773 · Post #46 » by **pistons773** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:04 am

blaha112 wrote:i'd like to see walter herman go, that guy drives me nuts.

Out:
Herman
Billups
Rasheed

In:
Sam Cassel
Chris Kaman
Shuan livingston

Make it hap!

The reason behind it is I want to see detroit with a new nickname. Right now i thought it was "we are better than you so i don't care"
I'd like it to be "the handsome men team"

Sam Cassel in and Billups out? Hell no.

Herman is irrelevant. I would love to package Hermann and Hayes for a real back up SF.

JazzItUp13 · Post #47 » by **JazzItUp13** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:04 am

sheed sucked...he was the reason the pistons lost. Talks a big game but he's a whining little well you know...

BIG BEN'S FRO · Post #48 » by **BIG BEN'S FRO** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:05 am

GJense,

Sign and trade is the only way any of those players can be obtained, except maybe for Childress.

Post #49 » by **Snakebites** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:10 am

^And even Childress I have a hard time seeing fetching only the MLE.

Unless of course the Hawks decide he's the odd man out and they don't want to fork over the dough needed to keep him. Not sure what he would be worth on the open market.

He'd be restricted, I believe, and I have a hard time imagining the Hawks deciding not to match an MLE offer.

GJense4181 · Post #50 » by **GJense4181** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:10 am

I don't want Marion.
I would trade Tayshaun and Amir for Smith and Pachulia, though. In separate trades, of course.

Jedini · Post #51 » by **Jedini** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:13 am

FLIP GOES - EVERYONE ELSE STAYS! This team is still golden. Work on some minutes and we will win it all again. You'll see - we'll get to another ECF next year, we'll win and take it all with more energetic coach.

#1stunna · Post #52 » by **#1stunna** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:15 am

It's always funner watching a team build up than see it slowly decline & fail

Maybe it's finally time to make a run at a possible title a couple years down the road.

It would atleast be a hell of a lot funner to watch a team develop like we did 7 years ago.

If this core couldnt beat the spurs, mia, cle, & bos, what makes you think after 5 years they can beat the next gunner.

Rasheeed!!! · Post #53 » by **Rasheeed!!!** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:20 am

Time to reload because Cleveland is going to be better next season. Their 2 strengths are our 2 weaknesses (SF & rebounding!)

PistonFan4Life · Post #54 » by **PistonFan4Life** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:22 am

#1stunna wrote:It's always funner watching a team build up than see it slowly decline & fail

Maybe it's finally time to make a run at a possible title a couple years down the road.

It would atleast be a hell of a lot funner to watch a team develop like we did 7 years ago.

If this core couldnt beat the spurs, mia, cle, & bos, what makes you think after 5 years they can beat the next gunner.

I don't think too many Pistons fans would argue that our window with this group has closed. I think we need to find a way to trade a few of our starters for young upcoming players like Joe D when he first took over as the GM and build this team to be great again in 3-4 years. The Lakers are probably going to be nearly unstopable the next few years considering how well they are playing without Bynum in the lineup most of this year. When he returns next year they are not going to be an easy team to beat in one game let alone a playoff series. So I say retool the Pistons to be a serious contender in 3-4 years when Amir, Stuckey and Maxiell should all have had time to develop as a group and be coming into their prime.

BIG BEN'S FRO · Post #55 » by **BIG BEN'S FRO** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:22 am

I am ready to move Amir and Tayshaun for Smith in one second. It will never happen.

IMO Sheed or Prince will have to be moved if Joe's intention is to bring in a big name.

Billups won't be traded since we just won't get fair value in return, and Stuck needs just a little more development.

Rip was the only player who brought it consistently. Losing him may hurt more than anyone.

Mcdyess has a NT clause, doesn't he? So that takes him out.

m23uza1hem36 · Post #56 » by **m23uza1hem36** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:23 am

Okay, here we go, we got a starting that was better this year then last year, we have a team that is just built to dominate the regular season, heck the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs.

Once we get to the ECF and we are versing one of the best 2 teams in the EC which is known as a defensive conference, we got out coached last 2 years, hell 1st year with Flip we just played big-headed. Second year, played big-headed and got out coached. THIS YEAR, we were not out coached we lost to a team consisting of a Paul Peirce, Ray Allen, and a Kevin Garnett. We lost to a great team, the reason why we are all angry is because after each year we make no moves saying in our heads "It's okay next year". Fact of the matter is, the starting core needs an upgrade, we need a center, we need to be able to move Rasheed back to PF.

We need better backups and if we bring in a player to join our starting lineup which I believe will consist of at least Rip, Chauncey, Tay, and Rasheed, 4/5 who started for us this year we need a center who can score back to the basket on a CONSISTENT basis. As I look at the roster we can let 3 players walk away, Herman, Dixon, Hayes, I think we should let all of them go and let McDyess get back on that bench. Let him be a spark a long with Stuckey and Maxiell off the bench, unfortunately it may again make minutes for Amir dissapear but when you want a championship you go with the guys you have that can do it.

You all want a championship and want it NOW which means you won't get the development of Chuck, Amir, & Afflalo. I think have a starting lineup of Chauncey/Richard/Tayshaun/Rasheed/(Good Center) > possible we can get for a 1st/2nd rounder and a young player (Samb?, Hermann?). I look at that type of lineup I ssee 65+ wins. Then everyone says you need a "go-to-guy" well no you don't when on any given night any one of the players can explode. You just need a guy who can score back to the basket in the post consistently, that would be your go-to-guy in tough situations.

Moving Sheed back to PF may get his head screwed back on knowing he has someone else with him that ain't no nice guy and a guy who can get in the post, which would open up shots for Rasheed.

I think at that point we need a back SF, we cant use Rip/Stuckey as our backup SF, Jarvis Hayes ain't good enough either, you need a legit SF that can come in the game, that can score in a way, that can defend, that's not undersized for a SF and can rebound and defend good enough that Tay could lower his minutes.

I think we all have to calm down and not start thinking of blowing things because frankly, we still are a top 5 team in this league.