Why are we running the Princeton Offense?

[bebopdeluxe]

I was going to title this thread "this team is a freaking disaster", but I tried to be a bit more focused than that...

The "Princeton Offense" was designed by Pete Carril to help his relatively unathletic Princeton teams compete with the big boys...it was the epitome of system overcoming superior athleticism. It was designed to be run by players of above-average intelligence...using the one tool that that team (at least theoretically) held over other teams. To some, it is a "pure" form of basketball - everybody touches the ball...everybody gets opportunities...

Can somebody PLEASE explain to me why this offense was the best choice for the Sixers?

The players on this team are not shrinking violets athletically...it's not like they are so physically undermanned that they are some 16 seed in the NCAA tournament trying to beat Alonzo Mourning and Georgetown...right? Their athleticism IS their best attribute...Iguodala...Thad...Sammy...Carney...Williams...Speights...Holiday...

Can SOMEBODY please explain to me (like I am a 7-year-old) why Ed Stefanski felt like we needed the "system" of the Princeton Offense to compete with other teams in the NBA...because I'm not feeling it. The PO is best executed by a team of INTELLIGENT, COHESIVE players (yup - that sounds like the SIxers to me). It would seem to me that I was a SMART general manager (as opposed to a GM who has had his checkbook snatched away by daddy Roberts and is trying to save his azz), I would employ a system that emphasizes our STRENGTHS...a long, athletic, FAST team that can get into your grill on defense and blow you away in transition. Why these guys spend SO much of their bandwidth trying to perfect an offense that has never won SQUAT in the NBA - and in the process, robs them of the ability to take advantage of the rosters one "plus" attribute (their athleticism) makes ZERO sense.

What DOES make sense?

Eddie Jordan - $2 million subsidy from the Wizards for 2009-2010
Andre Miller - expiring contract that was NEVER going to be reinvested into the roster

EPIC FAIL.

For those of you who have been on this board for a while, you know that I can drink the Kool-Aid with the best of them...but the current state of the franchise is as bad (relative to the talent) as it has been since the glory Charles Shackelford/Dana Barros days....and - since Stefanski and Comcast/Snider have done such a WONDERFUL job of giving this fan base ZERO sense that they are willing to go ALL IN to make this thing work (Eddie Jordan? Lou Williams at PG??), instead of roasting/shaming the ownership to DO EVERYTHING IN THIER POWER to fix this thing, the fans will simply tune out.

The only thing worse than fans hating the team...is fans not giving a sh*t.

I hope that the Roberts boys and Ed Snider enjoy the empty seats this season.

[crazylyf]

I might be wrong but on paper, it was supposed to be a good fit for the following reasons:

A.) It was supposed to save as millions of dollars by not overpaying Andre Miller.

As good as Andre Miller is, his age and the contract he wants doesn't have any place in the Sixers roster.

Let's remember that he doesn't have any much value back then when we had him before trade deadline with an expiring contract, and it was reported that nobody really offered anything for him.

Before there was Jrue Holiday, there was the promising Lou Williams who was always been under the wings of Allen Iverson and Andre Miller. And this "Princeton Offense" was supposed to be a good fit for this talented young kid.

B.) Last year's halfcourt offense was horrendous.

I read that you are leaning on utilizing our strength. But the truth is, we won't be winning anything by just being an opportunistic scoring team on offense. We need some direction and stability on our halfcourt sets.

C.) Nobody can create their own shots.

Andre Iguodala is delusional.

Iguodala: "Among other guys in that league, I think I have that (superstar-level) respect. With you guys and maybe others outside in the media who don’t play within the game, it’s kind of hard to see. I think I make my teammates a lot better. I’ve raised the level of play and that’s probably one of the toughest things to do in the NBA."

Nobody on this team can command double teams nor create their own shots against elite defensive teams. Not even Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young or Elton Brand. IMO, they are more of a system players on offense. Andre Iguodala is a facilitator, Young is a slasher and Brand is a lazy mid range shooter at the corner elbow.

D.) Our bigmen are good perimeter shooters.
EB42 might be our best mid range shooter. EB42, Daly and Speights aren't low post scorers. They are more comfortable facing the basket and shooting at the mid range. And Princeton offense was supposed to benefit big men like them.


Eddie Jordan, Ed Stefanski, Andre Miller, Louis Williams and the Sixers were just at the right place and at the right time.

Sixers already have a handful of coaches on their payroll (not sure about this). And with Eddie Jordan, who is still under the Wizards' payroll, we're just paying the subsidy of his contract.

Ed Stefanski trusts Eddie Jordan and what he has done back then at New Jersey with his two finals trips along and his recent success at Wizards.

Andre Miller was on his way out. While we got a Lou Williams who is more suited as a SG on offense.

This team is composed of system players, who lacks the ability to create his own shots and take over ball games. And last year's halfcourt offense was a complete mess. I read that you were saying how we need to rely on our strength (athleticism), rather than his princeton offense. Well if we looking to make it to the second round, we need some efficiency on our halfcourt offense and stop relying too much on fastbreaks.

Princeton Offense REALLY sounds like a good system that fits our team's personnel. I can't really blame the system and the signing of Eddie Jordan. Princeton Offense and Eddie Jordan were like drafting a player because of BPA and team needs. It was supposed to be perfect.

What I do really regret was the signing Elton Brand. I mean, you're investing MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in him. They should have atleast checked 82games.com if he was really a low post scorer or a C-webb part 2. Or atleast have their medical staff check his knee.

Another thing was the signing of Iguodala. Yes, it's that time of the year again where we bash Andre Iguodala and his sucky offensive game. Think about it. Could we have been in a much "promising" situation without signing both these player in the summer of 08? With a couple of lotto picks, a better cap situation, plus Thaddeus Young and Speights as good supporting casts to both Stephen Curry and Greg Monroe.

It's not the system nor the coach. It's the players.

[jimij]

As a Wizards fan (and never an EJ fan), I was shocked to see Philly sign Jordan. The can talk all he wants to about defense but he doesn't have a clue as to designing and effective NBA D. Plus Philly just seems like an up-tempo athletic team and to me that doesn't fit at all with how Jordan wants his teams to play.

He's not a terrible coach, he just has some significant flaws that will never allow his teams to advance in the playoffs.

The one thing you have going for you is that he does love playing small ball and it seems like you guys could field a very good lineup for that. However, I'd bet Daly will be demanding a trade by December (although Speights is going to LUV him).

[PhilasFinest]

great post crazylyf...

i agree...its not Jordans fault , its the GM , Organization and players fault.

they have players that have the same strengths and weaknesses...which doesnt work when building.

If they feel Jrue Holiday has PG of the future potential...they need to start playing him ....then they need to seriously choose either Iguodala or Thad as the future 3, and move the othe for a pick(s) or similar talented SG that can score and shoot.attempt to move EB for anything of worth, let Speights develop and see what type of potential he has and rebuild the right way.

[Solid Snake]

As a Wizards fan (and never an EJ fan), I was shocked to see Philly sign Jordan. The can talk all he wants to about defense but he doesn't have a clue as to designing and effective NBA D. Plus Philly just seems like an up-tempo athletic team and to me that doesn't fit at all with how Jordan wants his teams to play.

He's not a terrible coach, he just has some significant flaws that will never allow his teams to advance in the playoffs.

The one thing you have going for you is that he does love playing small ball and it seems like you guys could field a very good lineup for that. However, I'd bet Daly will be demanding a trade by December (although Speights is going to LUV him).

Relying on athleticism and being up-tempo won't get the Sixers anywhere but a first round exit. I am not saying Princeton is the right offense to go to, but they definitely need some half-court ability. Give it some more time though because Princeton is always ugly at first.

Then again, didn't the Sixers just score 106 on 50% shooting against the #1 defensive team last season?

[PhilasFinest]

i agree...this team needs some type of system...

this whole get out and run crap is getting old...all it does is try to mask our poor building of a team, and let them do what they do best....run and jump rather than play basketball.

[Gsraider]

After watching last night's game, understanding/utilizing the Princeton offense is of far less concern than what this team was doing defensively. They could run it like Princeton themselves, but if they don't defend the perimeter better, it won't matter in the slightest.

[tweeze]

It was only 1 game...against one of the best teams in the Nba that happen to be on fire...The Eastern Conference Champs... We will Bounce back..if we lose Big like that to the Bucks...Then we have major problems..