knicks biggest problem...patience!

[iLovethosedamnknicks]

if we would of waited a couple of years for our guys in improve we would of had frye and ariza, who are playing better then most of the players on our team

[Thorn]

That is the failure of past management, no real sense in mentioning it. It is not a problem with THESE Knicks it was a problem with Isiah Thomas and he is no longer our problem.

[knicksNOTslick]

That's funny because that also is the biggest problem for Knick fans.

When they say you can't really rebuild in New York, they're right. It's hard for a GM to be patient when your fans want results right away. I applaud Walsh for being patient.

[!nstinct]

I am blaming the coaches and partly IT. We all know L. Brown did not like Frye. He was traded to make a test run at Randolph/Curry combination. We also lost Ariza for another stupid combo guards, Mabury/Francis test run.

We should have never traded those expiring contracts or at least included those young players in there. Frye went from being rumor trade for KG to being traded for Z. Randolph. Mike antoni already cost us Balkman, he is very like Ariza and I feel we will lose Chandler just because the coach is in love with Gallo.

[Fat Kat]

That's funny because that also is the biggest problem for Knick fans.

When they say you can't really rebuild in New York, they're right. It's hard for a GM to be patient when your fans want results right away. I applaud Walsh for being patient.

I agree. It amazes me how anyone with half a brain could call a pick a bust before they play game one. We saw it happen with Hill last year and we see it this year with Hill. I'd glad we have a GM that can tune out the knuckleheads.

[GuyverADL]

if we would of waited a couple of years for our guys in improve we would of had frye and ariza, who are playing better then most of the players on our team

If we kept those guys we'd like not have Gallo and Chandler either.

[Thorn]

if we would of waited a couple of years for our guys in improve we would of had frye and ariza, who are playing better then most of the players on our team

If we kept those guys we'd like not have Gallo and Chandler either.

This is a very good point, it would certainly have affected our position in the draft.

[seren]

That's funny because that also is the biggest problem for Knick fans.

When they say you can't really rebuild in New York, they're right. It's hard for a GM to be patient when your fans want results right away. I applaud Walsh for being patient.

Sorry but I don't buy it. What does it affect? Ticket sales? I don't think so. Knicks sold tickets whatever they put on the floor. People were so hyped in the garden with the likes of Nate and Lee rather than ZAirBall or even Fishbury. TV ratings? I don't think so. In fact, they have done better last year with the rebuilding than previous years.

Realgm boards? Well, yeah you can say that. But I doubt management should care too much.

[CKamm1]

I do not think it is such a guarantee either of those guys turn out how they did if they stayed with the Knicks. Both were/are lucky enough to be in situations that are perfect for them to succeed. They were both let go by very recently successful organizations (Orlando for Ariza and Portland for Frye) before they broke out so it is not like it was so obvious they were going to. Also, Frye has played extremely well for three freaking games- might want to re-evaluate him in ten games or so once he is no longer hitting 65% of his three pointers.

That being said, it is a good point that it is important to have some patience, in particular with Jordan Hill. And I don't mean patient for the next few weeks, I mean for a few seasons.

[StutterStep]

I do not think it is such a guarantee either of those guys turn out how they did if they stayed with the Knicks. Both were/are lucky enough to be in situations that are perfect for them to succeed. They were both let go by very recently successful organizations (Orlando for Ariza and Portland for Frye) before they broke out so it is not like it was so obvious they were going to. Also, Frye has played extremely well for three freaking games- might want to re-evaluate him in ten games or so once he is no longer hitting 65% of his three pointers.

That being said, it is a good point that it is important to have some patience, in particular with Jordan Hill. And I don't mean patient for the next few weeks, I mean for a few seasons.

I disagree a bit. The NBA has a bunch of coaches who refuse to evaluate and develop talent, esp. if they're not the ones in favor of drafting the player. It's really that simple.

Ariza and Frye...and Balkman and Mardy (to a much lesser degree) were players that many fans saw potential in...but coaches soured on them for reasons not having to do with just basketball.

Ariza -- for refusing to go along with LB's plan of starting players whenever they're in their hometowns.

Frye -- for not punching Melo in the crotch when he stood over him.

Balkman -- for not having a jumper, meanwhile we've spent time developing Jared Jeffries.

Mardy -- so, Chris Duhon is not looking over his shoulders? Really why did they move him? Because he was expendable and they had no stake in his development? Yet, they turn around and draft Toney Douglas?

[CKamm1]

I do not think it is such a guarantee either of those guys turn out how they did if they stayed with the Knicks. Both were/are lucky enough to be in situations that are perfect for them to succeed. They were both let go by very recently successful organizations (Orlando for Ariza and Portland for Frye) before they broke out so it is not like it was so obvious they were going to. Also, Frye has played extremely well for three freaking games- might want to re-evaluate him in ten games or so once he is no longer hitting 65% of his three pointers.

That being said, it is a good point that it is important to have some patience, in particular with Jordan Hill. And I don't mean patient for the next few weeks, I mean for a few seasons.

I disagree a bit. The NBA has a bunch of coaches who refuse to evaluate and develop talent, esp. if they're not the ones in favor of drafting the player. It's really that simple.

Ariza and Frye...and Balkman and Mardy (to a much lesser degree) were players that many fans saw potential in...but coaches soured on them for reasons not having to do with just basketball.

Ariza -- for refusing to go along with LB's plan of starting players whenever they're in their hometowns.

Frye -- for not punching Melo in the crotch when he stood over him.

Balkman -- for not having a jumper, meanwhile we've spent time developing Jared Jeffries.

Mardy -- so, Chris Duhon is not looking over his shoulders? Really why did they move him? Because he was expendable and they had no stake in his development? Yet, they turn around and draft Toney Douglas?

I don't disagree that talent gets misjudged or that there are coaches/GM's with agendas. That is my point though- those guys weren't going to develop as they did here regardless of the exact reason.

As for Balkman and Mardy, I think both guys are very limited and pretty much useless. If I remember correctly they got traded to clear roster space. We spend time on Jeffries because he has a huge guaranteed contract that we either need to get value from if we are stuck with it or hopefully create enough value that we can trade it. And Douglas looks like he has a hell of a lot more talent and potential than Mardy.

[StutterStep]

As for Balkman and Mardy, I think both guys are very limited and pretty much useless. If I remember correctly they got traded to clear roster space.

There you go making that same assumption that because a player is limited in some capacity, then he's useless. You praise Douglas over Mardy but Mardy was a very effective 4-year starter. Balkman showed that if he had a coach that cared about defense (think Popovich), he would be playing, etc...

[The Boss of Bosses]

Whats the average life span of a new york coach and gm..3-4 seasons? (forget Isiah)I think no one wants to wait around 4+ seasons for a player to develop and we wound up trading for home runs in the past in which weve failed miserably at. And fair or not..if we strike out on 2010 the Walsh countdown clock will start ticking aspecially by the fans.

[j4remi]

As for Balkman and Mardy, I think both guys are very limited and pretty much useless. If I remember correctly they got traded to clear roster space.

There you go making that same assumption that because a player is limited in some capacity, then he's useless. You praise Douglas over Mardy but Mardy was a very effective 4-year starter. Balkman showed that if he had a coach that cared about defense (think Popovich), he would be playing, etc...

I'd rather watch Douglas on the floor now than Mardy and I saw potential in Collins after his rookie season. He just never improved his jumper and continued to force the issue with both dribble penetration and passing. He was a turnover machine and little has changed. He can put up some numbers when you give him the ball enough but so can 90% of the league. For now I don't see Mardy being much better than Douglas right now and that's if he even is any better.

[StutterStep]

I'd rather watch Douglas on the floor now than Mardy and I saw potential in Collins after his rookie season. He just never improved his jumper and continued to force the issue with both dribble penetration and passing. He was a turnover machine and little has changed. He can put up some numbers when you give him the ball enough but so can 90% of the league. For now I don't see Mardy being much better than Douglas right now and that's if he even is any better.

TD has speed and handle over Mardy.

Mardy has size that allowed him to guard PG, SG and SF. Plus, Mardy ran the offense much better as he was a 4-year PG in college and not a combo.

The only way TD surpasses Mardy is if his jumper gets fixed...because Mardy's improved from his rookie season to last year in LAC.