Thoughts on last night and Kobe's aggressiveness?

[supaflash]

So I was reading throught the game thread for last night and I just saw complaint after complaint on Kobe's shot attempts.. I'm curious, was it that bad? He was only 9-22. Granted 7 turn overs but there was several comments that he got fouled a few times that didn't get called that resulted in missed shots and turnovers, so if you consider that out of his total he had a nice game.

I dunno, but given the situation I would have wanted him to shot a lot, playing sick its hard to stay warm and in the flow of the game if you are not constantly involved so usually its best for him to just attack attack in that mode. Plus when you are in that sick haze, its harder to focus on the game as a whole, to see all the stuff going on and focus on it for good passes, much easier to just focus on yourself and moves and do that. I dunno, i've played sick in that haze before and I would have done the exact same thing?

Also with Artest and Fish not hitting anything last few games, the bench just sucking, and LO being the up and down LO, what other options were people expecting last night? The Thunder are underrated, especially defensively, they have held all their opponents this year in the 80s, they are a long athletic group of guys on the perimeter with Westbrook, Thabo, KD and Green. I'm not so sure, without Pau that we wanted the ball in anyone but Kobe and Ron's hands too much. Probably could have dumped to Bynum a little more, but without Pau I think there are certain teams that the offense isn't going to run well against without Kobe doing his thing. Unless our bench starts stepping up bigtime.

Anyway, I just saw so much hate messages on Kobe's shooting last night but he seemed to keep the game and offense in enough flow I was just curious what people were thinking afterwards. We shot 52% as a team, I just don't think people understand the benefits of a player like Kobe that can consistently attack a team and cause so much attention and focus, even if he ends up being a bit of a volume guy at times. The overall turnovers by everyone concern me the most, at least 4 by every starter? That is troublesome. Was Kobe really disrupting the offense that much or was it just generally sloppy? Don't get me wrong I love facilitator Kobe, when things are runnign smoothly, but when they are not, there are times when I'd much rather lose on Kobe's shoulders then to watch some of these scrubs try and manufacture offense on their own. There are times when watching LO, Fish, Ron, Luke, Jordan try and manufacture offense and its just downright painful.

Thoughts? I couldn't watch the game but I'm just wondering if our offense was really in good enough shape to move and share the ball more or if Kobe needed to be aggressive.

Its is really hard to tell Kobe's mindset sometimes, but I wonder if his early season aggressiveness is his own personal plan, part of the coaching?? Is he grinding out Pau being down and Ron still adapting? Trying to prove he's still a scorer? Setting up facilitating later by being aggressive early? Saw something with the bench and other guys that he believes he needs to? Not totally sure, I'm betting its probably a combination. Who knows, he is a lot fresher then he was to start last season so maybe he's just going at it earlier...

[TonyMontana]

Brah............ Good post, but like I said this team isnt HUNGRY right now. They're still in the offseason mode.

But you cant discredit O.T for their great game either. Those young guns are ballin and they will surprise a lot of teams out there. Im even going to go out and say they will make it to the playoffs this year. Durant is ballin out of control. Kid has game and like I said we have a bullseye on our back and EVERY team will come at us everynight to prove they can beat the Champs and dethrone us.

EDIT

[supaflash]

Yeah I am disappointed by the lack of hunger, mostly by the bench mob, these guys just don't look like they are ready. Its early, but habits and mindset start early.

Look at the Cs bench, granted if they had KG out and Sheed starting, they'd be a little thin too, but guys like Daniels and House and Sheed are not only producing, but the biggest part is they are defending like crazy. For the most part, other then a few outbursts, I think our starters have been good defensively, but when our bench comes in, people just kill us. Farmar, Vaginacek, and Walton can't defend a bag of chips and Powell and Shannon are still a little green. Shots falling will come and go, but this bench needs to focus on D.

[iamworthy]

Under the circumstances of this team right now (2nd best player being out) I had no problem with Kobe's aggressiveness. I actually thought we had good shot distribution with the starting five. Kobe, your first option and starting SG took 22 shots, Bynum, second option took 15, LO, 3rd option took 11, Ron-Ron had 8 shots, and D-Fish took 6. 3 players scored over 20 pts, 4 out of the 5 starters had double figures, and fish having 9 pts. Our bench pretty much sucks. The moment you try to give more shots to guys like LO, is the same time when he starts missing. LO by nature doesnt even want to shoot. Did Kobe take a couple of bad shots....Yup, but its really not a big deal. He took 14 free throws and anyone who watched the game knows he should have went a couple more times. The thing that concerns me is the TO's. Artest in the triangle right now is a nightmare, but the only way he is going to learn is if he's playing. Kevin Ding had a pretty good blurp in his article about how Artest is pretty much lost. But its the regular season so I dont take to many things seriously.

[Magicontinues]

Brah............ Good post, but like I said this team isnt HUNGRY right now. They're still in the offseason mode.

But you cant discredit O.T for their great game either. Those young guns are ballin and they will surprise a lot of teams out there. Im even going to go out and say they will make it to the playoffs this year. Durant is ballin out of control. Kid has game and like I said we have a bullseye on our back and EVERY team will come at us everynight to prove they can beat the Champs and dethrone us.

Awaiting Magicfairies response.

Orrrr, we are missing Pau, we have a new starting SF, and Kobe had flu like symptons last night, we are lucky he played at all.

Soooo, how about we give them a freaking break guys, not judge them as "not being hungry" after a 3-1 start, not bad, relax fellas, get a life, go with the flow.
EDIT- read your pm.

[TonyMontana]

Orrrr, we are missing Pau, we have a new starting SF, and Kobe had flu like symptons last night, we are lucky he played at all.

Soooo, how about we give them a freaking break guys, not judge them as "not being hungry" after a 3-1 start, not bad, relax fellas, get a life, go with the flow. (and I would bet, just get older, as you all sound 14, seriously)

Edit-Tony read your pm.

[TonyMontana]

Under the circumstances of this team right now (2nd best player being out) I had no problem with Kobe's aggressiveness. I actually thought we had good shot distribution with the starting five. Kobe, your first option and starting SG took 22 shots, Bynum, second option took 15, LO, 3rd option took 11, Ron-Ron had 8 shots, and D-Fish took 6. 3 players scored over 20 pts, 4 out of the 5 starters had double figures, and fish having 9 pts. Our bench pretty much sucks. The moment you try to give more shots to guys like LO, is the same time when he starts missing. LO by nature doesnt even want to shoot. Did Kobe take a couple of bad shots....Yup, but its really not a big deal. He took 14 free throws and anyone who watched the game knows he should have went a couple more times. The thing that concerns me is the TO's. Artest in the triangle right now is a nightmare, but the only way he is going to learn is if he's playing. Kevin Ding had a pretty good blurp in his article about how Artest is pretty much lost. But its the regular season so I dont take to many things seriously.

I agree but I see no motivation and no heart from certain players on this team at this moment, not like other condenders. I have no problem with Kobe's shots or Artest getting in the float and trying to gel with this team. That all comes with time, but the lack of effort and the other things you mentioned will endup costing us H.C.A down the line, and we have yet to play any serious teams.

[Anklebreaker702]

This 1 doesnt take a lot of thought for me. Kobe is showing ball hogging at its finest. You guys need to quit making excuses for him. Do you guys really think when Pau gets back he's going to magically turn into unselfish mode? R ight now he needs to treat Drew as if he was Pau, so that way when he gets back its a smoother transition.

[Magicontinues]

This 1 doesnt take a lot of thought for me. Kobe is showing ball hogging at its finest. You guys need to quit making excuses for him. Do you guys really think when Pau gets back he's going to magically turn into unselfish mode? R ight now he needs to treat Drew as if he was Pau, so that way when he gets back its a smoother transition.

Yes, Kobe sucks!! Bench him!!

What's up with all the Laker hate from supposed Laker fans here the first three games guys? lighten up, learn the game, Kobe's doing what he has to do while Pau is out, and Artest is working himself in with the team, Damn.

[Asianiac_24]

My problem last night with Kobe was not how MANY shots he took, but what TYPE of shots. I don't care how many shots Kobe takes, as long as its a good shot, I'm good. But there were a number of occasions where his teammates were open and he still jacked up a shot.

[picc]

It was the kind of shots he was taking. Demanding the ball, not even looking at his teammates or trying to set up any plays, and taking horrible, atrocious low % shot attempts. He was freezing the rest of the team out vs OKC and it didnt look like he was interested in a team game at all.

Tonight he was taking higher percentage shots, closer to the rim, and was actually making passes and looking for teammates when they cut or got inside.

Its funny how those things can work out, he shot 22 times last night and 30 times tonight, but last night felt soooooooo much worse.

[SashAlex]

So I was reading throught the game thread for last night and I just saw complaint after complaint on Kobe's shot attempts.. I'm curious, was it that bad? He was only 9-22. Granted 7 turn overs but there was several comments that he got fouled a few times that didn't get called that resulted in missed shots and turnovers, so if you consider that out of his total he had a nice game.

I dunno, but given the situation I would have wanted him to shot a lot, playing sick its hard to stay warm and in the flow of the game if you are not constantly involved so usually its best for him to just attack attack in that mode. Plus when you are in that sick haze, its harder to focus on the game as a whole, to see all the stuff going on and focus on it for good passes, much easier to just focus on yourself and moves and do that. I dunno, i've played sick in that haze before and I would have done the exact same thing?

Also with Artest and Fish not hitting anything last few games, the bench just sucking, and LO being the up and down LO, what other options were people expecting last night? The Thunder are underrated, especially defensively, they have held all their opponents this year in the 80s, they are a long athletic group of guys on the perimeter with Westbrook, Thabo, KD and Green. I'm not so sure, without Pau that we wanted the ball in anyone but Kobe and Ron's hands too much. Probably could have dumped to Bynum a little more, but without Pau I think there are certain teams that the offense isn't going to run well against without Kobe doing his thing. Unless our bench starts stepping up bigtime.

Anyway, I just saw so much hate messages on Kobe's shooting last night but he seemed to keep the game and offense in enough flow I was just curious what people were thinking afterwards. We shot 52% as a team, I just don't think people understand the benefits of a player like Kobe that can consistently attack a team and cause so much attention and focus, even if he ends up being a bit of a volume guy at times. The overall turnovers by everyone concern me the most, at least 4 by every starter? That is troublesome. Was Kobe really disrupting the offense that much or was it just generally sloppy? Don't get me wrong I love facilitator Kobe, when things are runnign smoothly, but when they are not, there are times when I'd much rather lose on Kobe's shoulders then to watch some of these scrubs try and manufacture offense on their own. There are times when watching LO, Fish, Ron, Luke, Jordan try and manufacture offense and its just downright painful.

Thoughts? I couldn't watch the game but I'm just wondering if our offense was really in good enough shape to move and share the ball more or if Kobe needed to be aggressive.

Its is really hard to tell Kobe's mindset sometimes, but I wonder if his early season aggressiveness is his own personal plan, part of the coaching?? Is he grinding out Pau being down and Ron still adapting? Trying to prove he's still a scorer? Setting up facilitating later by being aggressive early? Saw something with the bench and other guys that he believes he needs to? Not totally sure, I'm betting its probably a combination. Who knows, he is a lot fresher then he was to start last season so maybe he's just going at it earlier...

Absolutely the same feeling ! Kobe makes me hate and love him at the same time during a single game. '

Guys in my country who watch sometimes NBA, mostly watching the playoffs, told me last'year "This guy, Kobe Bryant, I don't know how he's one of the best or maybe the best when he needs like 25 touches to score 30 points ?!" They asked me which was his career high in points and I told them it was 81 back in 2006. They were like "How many shots did he attempted, 100 ?!" - smiling jokingly. I told them that as a Laker fan at least I got used to that, but still without any clue why he sometimes simply shuts by himself our offense down and makes you worry about every offensive possesion, every jump-shot he takes fading away with two guys on him, that's not gonna get it going ! Our starting unit, even without Pau, is great, go and give them the ball, pad your assists numbers, whatever, but don't force so many shots, please ! Someone needs to tell him there is no more Smush Parker and Kwame Brown in the team !

Even LeBron has impressed me these last two seasons by not forcing too much with a worse team than Kobe's had.

But Kobe's what Kobe is ! He told to the camera "He( Battier ) can't guard me, game 2 of WC semis." Well, who can guard you when you need 25-30 touches to score 30-40 points ?!

But, who am I to judge the MVP of the last NBA Finals ? Go ahead Kobe ! Keep the ball as much as you want, put it under your jersey and run with it circles around the court !

Well, I'm afraid you didn't understand all our messages correctly, yes ? First of all, no one's saying that Kobe's shooting a lot, everyone over here, who understand a bit the game is noticing his shot selection, the high percentage of bad-tough shots Kobe is taking during every game. It's just the same scenarion for I don't know how many years, and it doesn't matter, is there Pau or Kwame Brown, Kobe takes the ball when the game is close or tied, they're playing iso and the offensive flow gets disrupted, with Kobe keeping the ball for 20 seconds and in the end taking a bad shot, not every game, sometimes he makes them, sometimes at times, he gives the ball to someone else when he realizes that it's impossible even for him to take that shot with 5 players around. Not to talk about his shot selection during the 1st 3 quarters.

Kobe's still my favourite Laker and has always been, and that's why I'm criticizing him. I feel like he can improve his game and the game of the team he leads to make them even more unbeatable.

...and yeah, he's selfish. It's obvious. But he's still my fave Laker and the one I take as an example, excluding his shot selection.

[doozyj]

Yeah I am disappointed by the lack of hunger, mostly by the bench mob, these guys just don't look like they are ready. Its early, but habits and mindset start early.

Look at the Cs bench, granted if they had KG out and Sheed starting, they'd be a little thin too, but guys like Daniels and House and Sheed are not only producing, but the biggest part is they are defending like crazy. For the most part, other then a few outbursts, I think our starters have been good defensively, but when our bench comes in, people just kill us. Farmar, Vaginacek, and Walton can't defend a bag of chips and Powell and Shannon are still a little green. Shots falling will come and go, but this bench needs to focus on D.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think Fish should come off the bench and lead them with his veteranship along with LO. Bumping Brown to start. We are very deep as it is in the starting lineup that it seems overly unbalanced in terms of talent with the bench.

[Magicontinues]

Kobe would you start playing passive? Stop being so aggressive!!

That 41 is too many!!! And we are winning to much!!!

[TonyMontana]

My problem last night with Kobe was not how MANY shots he took, but what TYPE of shots. I don't care how many shots Kobe takes, as long as its a good shot, I'm good. But there were a number of occasions where his teammates were open and he still jacked up a shot.

See thats what people, you know your so called TV baller and NBA live ballers dont understand and by the way this isnt directed to you, its directed to someone else. When I post that this team isnt hungry the proof is in every game so far, not one or two or three its how we have been playing since camp. The defending champs have taken a few steps back instead of forward. Basically were back to where we were in 05 06 and 07. Kobe is doing all he can. We know Kobes hungry and he will never lose the will to win every game every night.

The problem is the rest of the team. There not in the game they're not as passionate about winning now, the same way they were in those three years. Its basically give the ball to Kobe and get out the way. You can see that. I mean look at Artest, its not that he is lost or doesnt know his role, he wants to go with the flow and you can clearly see that.

Fish is old and he is basically done and again last nights game proved that. How many times did Brooks blow by him. How many dumb fouls did he commit. By the way how many points did he have??? When our leaders and our role players arent producing and our bench sucks then it goes to a one man show, and thats Kobe. He will do everything within his power to win meanwhile the rest of the team is going to stand around and watch instead of participate.

Like I said before if we played Boston in a seven game series even with Pau we would get stomped away. We are not completely there. Its not just Pau or Artest, its everyone. This team is still in the offseason mode riding the bus in the parade, and its going to take a good arse wooping by a sub 500 team to wake this team up.