Fouls, TO's, Oden & Peers

[ouaip]

Oden stats per 36 min (his ranking among the 22 NBA C that play more than 17 min per game)

PPG : 10.7 (19/22)
FGA : 6.9 (20/22)
ORB : 5.0 (3/22)
RB : 15.4 (1st)
TO : 5.0 (1st... or last one)
BLK : 3.5 (1st)
PF : 7.5 (1st, or last one)

6.9 FGA/36 min, it's less than Gortat, Dampier, Dalembert and Perkins and only 1 more FGA than Prz. Even Brendan Haywood has almost 5 more FGA than GO.
And don't forget that half of his FGA come after ORB.

[BlazersRizing]

too bad he never comes close to playing 36 mins in a game

[JD45]

Right now, the Blazers are such a confused mess, that getting Oden more involved in the offense has to be a low priority.

[Wizenheimer]

I was curious so I thought I'd look at how other young big men were faring in the league as far as fouls and turnovers to see if Oden was as bad as I was thinking

I added Andrew Bynum even though he's in his 5th season because Oden and Bynum are compared so often

the categories in a row are:

player|min per game|Usage Rate|Fouls per36|turnovers per36|turnover%

Roy Hibbert.........26.0| 20.7%| 4.5| 3.1| 17.9%
Al Horford...........34.6| 17.4%| 2.5| 1.9| 13.1%
Joakim Noah........28.5| 16.2%| 2.8| 2.2| 17.0%
Marc Gasol..........36.0| 18.6%| 3.8| 2.8| 17.8%
Brooke Lopez.......31.4| 23.3%| 4.4| 3.7| 19.4%
Jason Thompson...33.2| 15.5%| 4.5| 0.4| 3.4%
Andrew Bynum......40.0| 21.5%| 2.9| 2.3| 13.4%
Greg Oden.........23.0| 17.3%| 7.5| 5.0| 37.3%

simply put...ouch

it's pretty obvious that all the other players have been much better at figuring out what is a foul and what is not a foul. And considering that Gasol, Hibbert, Lopex, and Thompson are all in their 2nd seasons, with Horford and Noah in their third season, it's not like Greg is at a big inexperience disadvantage

The average usage rate is about 18.8% so Oden's committing turnovers at a prodigious rate since he has a usage rate a little lower then average

It also looks like, considering Oden's offensive limitations and turnover rate, that he's being incorporated into the offense at something close to the right amount. Portland might not be able to withstand Oden's turnover rate gobbling up a higher percentage of Blazer possessions, especially at their slow pace. It's arguable that not being used in quite the right way, but that's another debate IMO.

Obviously, it's still early in the season, and it's not like the team is playing error free, fluid BB, while Oden is not

But the excuses for Oden's current deficiencies are wearing a bit thin. At some point, blaming Nate and/or Portland's perimeter players for Oden's faults will simply not be credible. It's not like every one of those other players are playing on great well-coached teams

[Wizenheimer]

I guess I was typing my comparison while you were posting yours

maybe they should be combined threads since they are somewhat similar on the same player

[BlazersRizing]

Oden could shoot 0/10 and foul out in the 1st quarter and most people on here would find an excuse lol.. its just the way it is. *shrugs*

I dont see why people get upset over Oden criticism. if us fans didn't care then there wouldn't be any criticism, right?

bottom line, we all want him to live up to what he was supposed to be.. but so far its been a tough road. it's slowly improving but the fouls have to stop. its to the point to where you can watch a Blazers game and know whats coming.

the good thing is we all know when he is on the court that hes one of the best shot blockers and rebounders on the planet. so if he cuts out the stupid fouls then he will still help the team tremendously.

[ouaip]

Vs Houston (26:20 mi, 7 TO)
Oden Turnover : Traveling (1 TO)
Oden Turnover : Lost Ball (2 TO) Steal:Hayes (1 ST)
Oden Turnover : Lost Ball (3 TO) Steal:Hayes (2 ST)
Oden Turnover : 3 Second Violation (4 TO)
Oden Turnover : Foul (5 TO) Oden Foul : Offensive (2 PF)
Oden Turnover : Foul (6 TO) Oden Foul : Offensive (3 PF)
Oden Turnover : Foul (7 TO) Oden Foul : Offensive (4 PF)

Vs Denver (21:48 min, 1 TO)
Oden Turnover : Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal:Lawson (1 ST)

at Houston (21:53 min, 2 TO)
Oden Turnover : Foul (1 TO) Oden Foul : Offensive (3 PF)
Oden Turnover : 3 Second Violation (2 TO)

at OKC (28:52 min, 3 TO)
Oden Turnover : 3 Second Violation (1 TO)
Oden Turnover : Foul (2 TO) Oden Foul : Offensive (1 PF)
Oden Turnover : Traveling (3 TO)

Vs Atlanta (15:38 min, 3 TO)
Oden Turnover : Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal:Smith (1 ST)
Oden Turnover : 3 Second Violation (2 TO)
Oden Turnover : Lost Ball (3 TO) Steal:Smith (3 ST)

Total : 16 TO
Traveling : 2
Lost ball (stolen by X) : 5
3 Second Violation : 4
Offensive Foul : 5

[BballFanAddict]

Thanks for the analysis W. I am curious to know how this all compares to Oden of last year? Because with all the talk of him being a different player he looks exactly the same to this early point in the season as he did last year, which is disappointing to say the least.

Also, I hope he can turn it around because at this point it really is beginning to look like he will never be as good as we hoped when he was drafted.

[sabi]

get him a pg who can give him at least a couple of easy baskets a game and he becomes 10/10 center in like 25 mpg. Fouls are another problem he's gotta learn to let some baskets go and not try to force a rejection or make excessive contact on other players on broken defensive plays.

[Milkdud]

Oden really needs to work on his hands. He gets stripped way to often when he is making his offensive move. I'm not sure if he is showing the ball to soon or what but nobody that big and strong should get the ball knocked away that often.

[SalemStoner]

I'll worry about Oden's offense once I see him actually get the ball while rolling to the hoop when wide open more than once a month. Yes I'm concerned about his hands, but the fact is when we do get him the ball we expect him to make a move or two to create a shot for himself and he's not ready to do that yet. Meanwhile we have a bunch of perimeter players who do a piss poor job of hitting Oden underneath the hoop when he's open, and who simply refuse to get him the ball when he's moving towards the rim.

His fouls, while troubling is at a pace comparable to Pryzbilla this season. This makes me think his foul trouble this year is more directly related to our astoundingly bad perimeter defense than anything Oden is, or isn't doing. If it was like last year where Oden was borderline fouling out in significantly less minutes than Pryz I'd be alot more worried, but so far they seem to be splitting time and fouls pretty evenly.

Yes there's some concerns with Oden, but for god's sake can't we freakin admit that our team's core perimeter players are absolutely freakin horrendous at getting the ball to our big man down low when he is open, and who refuse to or are coached not to ever fight through screens.

[ouaip]

Thanks for the analysis W. I am curious to know how this all compares to Oden of last year? Because with all the talk of him being a different player he looks exactly the same to this early point in the season as he did last year, which is disappointing to say the least.

Also, I hope he can turn it around because at this point it really is beginning to look like he will never be as good as we hoped when he was drafted.

I agree, Oden looks exactly the same. But what do you expect from a player that is ignored by his teammates? If he loses the ball on one play, they run away from him the rest of the QT
As long as this team won't be ready to lose some games trying to involve GO, the big guy will never find a rythm. Never.
He needs to have the ball in his hands. He needs to shoot, miss, score, hustle, have his shot blocked, analyse the situation : shoot the ball? give it to the open man? He needs to be used, involved. If you give him 2 touches per QT, how do you want him to feel and understand the game and make some progress? If he misses a shot or loses the ball, he tries to reedem himself, bloking a shot or grabbing an offensive rebound and most of the time, it cost him a dumb foul. Oden is frustrated. It's pretty obvious. He wants to help but they run away from him...

Right now, this team is better playing iso for Roy, LMA and Outlaw. Ok. But we all know how it's gonna end. Exactly the same way it ended last year : with an early PO exit. If they don't try to involve GO right now and establish an inside game, they won't have any other option that waiting for another Roy miracle during the POs... And if Michael Jordan never won by himself, I don't think B-Roy will be able to.

[Fitz303]

The fouls are very discouraging, but Im still holding out hope that the issue disappears sooner rather than later. I havent heard of a player in the NBA yet who hasnt lived up to the hype due to fouls.

Not to make this too much about Nate, but a growing concern that I have is the fact that Oden has been seen far too many times at the top of the key. Oden should not be setting picks at the top of the key. He should not be getting swing passes like hes a PG at the top of the key. He has been doing this way too much. Aldridge should be setting up for pick and rolls. Oden should be fighting for low post position to get the ball on the block, or set up for an offensive rebound.

The turnovers are pretty bad as well though. He needs to become more aware of the help defense that comes almost every time that he get the ball. They immediately go after the ball because they know hes going to turn it over too easily

[Agenda42]

Thanks for the analysis W. I am curious to know how this all compares to Oden of last year? Because with all the talk of him being a different player he looks exactly the same to this early point in the season as he did last year, which is disappointing to say the least.

Also, I hope he can turn it around because at this point it really is beginning to look like he will never be as good as we hoped when he was drafted.

I think Oden looks like a completely different player on the defensive end. On offense, Oden has some new moves but does not generate positive plays on the post. His ability to generate turnovers is peerless.

[LicketyBrindle]

Thanks for the analysis W. I am curious to know how this all compares to Oden of last year? Because with all the talk of him being a different player he looks exactly the same to this early point in the season as he did last year, which is disappointing to say the least.

Also, I hope he can turn it around because at this point it really is beginning to look like he will never be as good as we hoped when he was drafted.

I agree, Oden looks exactly the same. But what do you expect from a player that is ignored by his teammates? If he loses the ball on one play, they run away from him the rest of the QT
As long as this team won't be ready to lose some games trying to involve GO, the big guy will never find a rythm. Never.
He needs to have the ball in his hands. He needs to shoot, miss, score, hustle, have his shot blocked, analyse the situation : shoot the ball? give it to the open man? He needs to be used, involved. If you give him 2 touches per QT, how do you want him to feel and understand the game and make some progress? If he misses a shot or loses the ball, he tries to reedem himself, bloking a shot or grabbing an offensive rebound and most of the time, it cost him a dumb foul. Oden is frustrated. It's pretty obvious. He wants to help but they run away from him...

Right now, this team is better playing iso for Roy, LMA and Outlaw. Ok. But we all know how it's gonna end. Exactly the same way it ended last year : with an early PO exit. If they don't try to involve GO right now and establish an inside game, they won't have any other option that waiting for another Roy miracle during the POs... And if Michael Jordan never won by himself, I don't think B-Roy will be able to.

+1! Finally, someone who understands what it is like to try and play offensive basketball while being completely ignored on the offensive end. This falls on Nate's shoulders. He is not utilizing Oden properly. If he was then Greg would be very productive and the negative plays would go down dramatically as his confidence rises.