Game 8: Cavs @ Thunder 11/8/2023

[ijspeelman]

[JujitsuFlip]

Let's go fellas, gotta kick this road trip off right!

[JujitsuFlip]

Oof, another 70 surrendered in the 1st half.

[JujitsuFlip]

This is funny and true but also sad coming from one of the team's top beat writers.

[jasonxxx102]

This team is gutless. Just getting absolutely crushed with no care in the world.

But hey, everything is gonna be fine, right???? RIGHT?!

[ijspeelman]

This team is gutless. Just getting absolutely crushed with no care in the world.

But hey, everything is gonna be fine, right???? RIGHT?!

Its not looking great, but its one game in a sample size of eight so I am not ready to draw concrete conclusions.

It doesn't help that the Thunder cannot miss.

[jasonxxx102]

This team is gutless. Just getting absolutely crushed with no care in the world.

But hey, everything is gonna be fine, right???? RIGHT?!

Its not looking great, but its one game in a sample size of eight so I am not ready to draw concrete conclusions.

It doesn't help that the Thunder cannot miss.

It’s been every game this season which was just a continuation of last season.

There’s a certain point where you can’t just tell yourself it’s a small sample anymore.

This is embarrassing for a team that’s supposedly a “contender” in the East. At least that’s what this season was supposed to be

[ijspeelman]

I think JB has had ample opportunities to use his challenge this game and yet we still potentially have two.

Is this me upset at JB or happy with JB? Call me if we are able to use one and its a close game.

[ijspeelman]

Cavs are so frustrated out there with all the fouls... and I don't blame them because its making the game hard to watch.

I don't think its why we aren't currently winning, but its obviously getting to them.

[afarmenian]

Garland has been horrific. 5 turnovers a game. You almost hope it's injuries because if this is him healthy forget about it

[JujitsuFlip]

Sucks that when others get it going, Mitchell can't sustain his shooting efficiency.

Also, good point about Garland, guy had 8 TO and 9 assist.

[ijspeelman]

Sucks that when others get it going, Mitchell can't sustain his shooting efficiency.

Also, good point about Garland, guy had 8 TO and 9 assist.

Garland looks insanely rusty and unlike himself. So may unforced turnovers.

Where Garland used to get into the paint and drag out his dribble, he's been getting stuck and making errant passes out. His three will also not go down even with great looks.

[JujitsuFlip]

Sucks that when others get it going, Mitchell can't sustain his shooting efficiency.

Also, good point about Garland, guy had 8 TO and 9 assist.

Garland looks insanely rusty and unlike himself. So may unforced turnovers.

Where Garland used to get into the paint and drag out his dribble, he's been getting stuck and making errant passes out. His three will also not go down even with great looks.

I'm sure that hamstring is bugging him but if the medical staff cleared him, the coaching staff cleared him, and he's willing to play... I guess this is what we have to expect until the next impasse (sitting him down or he fully heals [and starts playing better]).

[JonFromVA]

It's problematic that the Thunder looked like the more composed team - in both of the games we played them.

I still haven't seen an outward sign that Garland is struggling with his hamstring, but he's sure struggling with it or something. Having to lean on Caris to try to win us the game is pretty crazy, but kudos to him for almost pulling it off I suppose.

We were much better .vs. the Warriors but unfortunately the league isn't filled with older/shorter teams.

As much as the loss stinks, we won't know truly what we've got until Garland is playing like himself, Allen is off any minutes restrictions, Okoro is back on the rails and they get some games under their belt to figure out whether playing at a faster pace is really doing them any favors.

Someone needs to figure out what our strengths as a team are and how we can play to them, and we need something other than hand the ball to Caris when we can't bend the defense by knocking down 3pters.

[jbk1234]

Cavs are so frustrated out there with all the fouls... and I don't blame them because its making the game hard to watch.

I don't think its why we aren't currently winning, but its obviously getting to them.

This game is what drives fans and coaches nuts about NBA officiating. SGA and Dort being uber physical 30 feet away from the basket, Dort stiff arming the defender on drives, SGA hooking tje defender on every drive, and I mean every drive, yet SGA gets 13 free throws on soft calls.

If you want to to turn it into a football game, fine, but call it both ways. They started to clean it up in the second half a little, but you're right it might be better to burn a challenge earlier and get it cleaned up as it's happening.

I worry that JBB has exhausted any goodwill he has with the officials and the team may be suffering as a result.

[jbk1234]

It's problematic that the Thunder looked like the more composed team - in both of the games we played them.

I still haven't seen an outward sign that Garland is struggling with his hamstring, but he's sure struggling with it or something. Having to lean on Caris to try to win us the game is pretty crazy, but kudos to him for almost pulling it off I suppose.

We were much better .vs. the Warriors but unfortunately the league isn't filled with older/shorter teams.

As much as the loss stinks, we won't know truly what we've got until Garland is playing like himself, Allen is off any minutes restrictions, Okoro is back on the rails and they get some games under their belt to figure out whether playing at a faster pace is really doing them any favors.

Someone needs to figure out what our strengths as a team are and how we can play to them, and we need something other than hand the ball to Caris when we can't bend the defense by knocking down 3pters.

Teams are being a lot more physical with Garland this year and the officials are letting it go. Our bigs still can't set an effective screen. Garland did start figuring it out in 4th and Mitchell decided he had to be the hero, hijacked the offense, again, and forced some questionable shots against good defenders. He's immensely talented, but his late-game decision making looks very different when those tough shops don't drop and his teammates have open looks.

Also, not sure Niang should be getting minutes over Wade against younger, more athletic teams.

[ijspeelman]

It's problematic that the Thunder looked like the more composed team - in both of the games we played them.

I still haven't seen an outward sign that Garland is struggling with his hamstring, but he's sure struggling with it or something. Having to lean on Caris to try to win us the game is pretty crazy, but kudos to him for almost pulling it off I suppose.

We were much better .vs. the Warriors but unfortunately the league isn't filled with older/shorter teams.

As much as the loss stinks, we won't know truly what we've got until Garland is playing like himself, Allen is off any minutes restrictions, Okoro is back on the rails and they get some games under their belt to figure out whether playing at a faster pace is really doing them any favors.

Someone needs to figure out what our strengths as a team are and how we can play to them, and we need something other than hand the ball to Caris when we can't bend the defense by knocking down 3pters.

Teams are being a lot more physical with Garland this year and the officials are letting it go. Our bigs still can't set an effective screen. Garland did start figuring it out in 4th and Mitchell decided he had to be the hero, hijacked the offense, again, and forced some questionable shots against good defenders. He's immensely talented, but his late-game decision making looks very different when those tough shops don't drop and his teammates have open looks.

Also, not sure Niang should be getting minutes over Wade against younger, more athletic teams.

I am assuming those Mitchell shots, at least two of them, were a product of a playcall (makes it worse imo lol).

After the timeout at 3:57, it went:

1. Mitchell Garland PNP leads to Mitchell long-two: https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=678&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2019%27%20Pullup%20Jump%20Shot

2. Mitchell Strus PNP leads to Mitchell step back three early in the clock:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=682&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2026%27%203PT%20Step%20Back%20Jump%20Shot

3. Transition bucket by Garland:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=686&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Garland%204%27%20Floating%20Jump%20Shot%20(15%20PTS)

4. Set play that displaced the defense and resulted in a Mobley dunk and-one (Garland ast):
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=688&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Mobley%201%27%20Dunk%20(21%20PTS)%20(Garland%209%20AST)

5. Mitchell drive off Garland PNP:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=699&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Mitchell%206%27%20Driving%20Floating%20Bank%20Jump%20Shot%20(17%20PTS)

6. Mitchell drive off Garland PNP:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=701&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Mitchell%206%27%20Driving%20Floating%20Bank%20Jump%20Shot%20(19%20PTS)

7. Mitchell Strus PNR leads to Mitchell double -> Allen fouled:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=710&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Mobley%2010%27%20Layup

8. Mitchell semi-transition pull-up three:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=719&GameID=0022300167&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Mitchell%2025%27%203PT%20Running%20Pull-Up%20Jump%20Shot

Out of all of these, 1, 2, and 8 are the worst, but I assume all but 8 were set plays. 1 he probs should have passed to Garland. 2 felt desperate. 8 is my least favorite as we had some light momentum and didn't specifically need a three. Yes, if he makes it, we come back and say "wow so clutch", but I hate those shots when you can get better.

[JonFromVA]

The hero shots are all part of the Donovan Mitchell experience. Both he and DG have hit their fair share of them over the years, but they can't just lean on irrational confidence. If they're not feeling it, those shots have to be the last option, not the first.

That's all part of composure: locking down on the defensive side, doing whatever it takes to not waste an offensive possession, getting back in transition, waiting for rebounders to get in position, not turning the ball over, and using the clock and timeouts strategically.

Always try to take luck out of the equation.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's problematic that the Thunder looked like the more composed team - in both of the games we played them.

I still haven't seen an outward sign that Garland is struggling with his hamstring, but he's sure struggling with it or something. Having to lean on Caris to try to win us the game is pretty crazy, but kudos to him for almost pulling it off I suppose.

We were much better .vs. the Warriors but unfortunately the league isn't filled with older/shorter teams.

As much as the loss stinks, we won't know truly what we've got until Garland is playing like himself, Allen is off any minutes restrictions, Okoro is back on the rails and they get some games under their belt to figure out whether playing at a faster pace is really doing them any favors.

Someone needs to figure out what our strengths as a team are and how we can play to them, and we need something other than hand the ball to Caris when we can't bend the defense by knocking down 3pters.

...Mitchell decided he had to be the hero, hijacked the offense, again, and forced some questionable shots against good defenders. He's immensely talented, but his late-game decision making looks very different when those tough shops don't drop and his teammates have open looks.

Similar stuff we saw back in April.

It's crazy this team already needs a reset with Mobley only being 22 and Garland only being 23.

I'd say barring a deep playoff run, i think it is pretty clear it's time to move on from JB (if he even makes it the whole season) and time to get better fitting pieces/additional assets for Mitchell and have a soft reset.

Since LeVert has a 2 year deal, I'd probably move off him too, if the return made sense. With Mobley's complete lack of development, probably have to hang onto Allen but if a mega offer presented itself after the other moves were executed, might as well.

Then can move forward with Garland and Mobley being able to be the focal point and develop without limitations/pressure of expectations, kinda where we were pre-Mitchell trade. Hopefully have a more competent head coach running things too.

Be nice to find a reliable back-up PG, something Garland has never really had thus far in his career.