Offseason Thread

[Bulltalk]

Walker for Price sucks donkey balls. With King Felix, Iwakuma, Walker, and whoever else, we've got the starting thing down enough.

We need hitters, HITTERS, HITTERS!!!!

Jesus effing Christ.

[TTown]

if we land cano, it'd be interesting to see what kind of push we'd give towards another plus bat like, say, matt kemp. cano + this lineup is still a bad lineup. but cano, kemp, re-signing morales, seager, i'm extremely high on both miller and zunino...

i guess we'll see just how desperate Z gets. cano might cost a fortune, but i guess i'm far more comfortable with (drastically) overpaying for a position of need than i am giving up a prized prospect for a short-time rental. but then again it's not my money, lol. but price for walker screams of adam jones for erik bedard imo.

[Bulltalk]

if we land cano, it'd be interesting to see what kind of push we'd give towards another plus bat like, say, matt kemp. cano + this lineup is still a bad lineup. but cano, kemp, re-signing morales, seager, i'm extremely high on both miller and zunino...

i guess we'll see just how desperate Z gets. cano might cost a fortune, but i guess i'm far more comfortable with (drastically) overpaying for a position of need than i am giving up a prized prospect for a short-time rental. but then again it's not my money, lol. but price for walker screams of adam jones for erik bedard imo.

The thing is, you're not overpaying Cano if you pay the amount of money it takes to get him here. Overpaying him would be paying him more than the amount of money it would take to get him here.

We have to pay up for him. It's going to be at least 200 million and 8 years. Do it! Do we want to continue to suck forever?

I agree, bring in Cano and trade for another bat. Trade anyone not named Felix, Walker, Iwakuma, or Zunino for one. Everyone else is replaceable. No one's proved anything yet as a hitter (except suckiness) other than Seager. Seager is a good hitter, but nothing extraordinary for a 3rd baseman.

[Sweezo]

Walker for Price sucks donkey balls. With King Felix, Iwakuma, Walker, and whoever else, we've got the starting thing down enough.

We need hitters, HITTERS, HITTERS!!!!

Jesus effing Christ.

Meanwhile, the Royals just made a suave move trading a middle reliever [with some starting potential] for Norichika Aoki. A 2 WAR OF who adds a lot of different skills. The type of player the M's need to be acquiring.

A player like Aoki or Dexter Fowler alone won't make the M's a contender. But they are the types of players that other teams--teams like the Royals and Astros, mind you--have been able to acquire for middling pitching talent.

When Z first started, I was impressed by his ability to make shrewd, low-cost, under the radar moves. In is first season, he traded Putz for Guti, E. Chavez, Vargas, and Carp. He brought Branyan, Hanahan, and Aardsma in for cheap.

It doesn't seem like he's capable of making those moves anymore.

[Sweezo]

I agree, bring in Cano and trade for another bat. Trade anyone not named Felix, Walker, Iwakuma, or Zunino for one. Everyone else is replaceable. No one's proved anything yet as a hitter (except suckiness) other than Seager. Seager is a good hitter, but nothing extraordinary for a 3rd baseman.

I would trade Walker for the right hitter. If the Marlins suddenly/stupidly made Stanton available? Bye bye, Walker.

But I agree that it makes very little sense to trade Walker for pitching. IF the M's were poised to contend this season and the team genuinely felt trading Walker for Price would provide them that extra push, then I get it. As others have mentioned, we're nowhere near that point right now.

If you sign Cano for 8 years/$200 million [that's $25 million per], trade for Kemp [$20 million per year on average], maybe add Mike Napoli [$14-$15 million per?], then you've committed $60 million per season to your offense for the next several years. Your salary commitments per season are suddenly pushing $100 million per season and you have to maximize the return on your investment.

Under those circumstances, trading Walker for Price and absorbing $10 million per season in arbitration costs for the next two years might make some sense.

[Bulltalk]

I agree, bring in Cano and trade for another bat. Trade anyone not named Felix, Walker, Iwakuma, or Zunino for one. Everyone else is replaceable. No one's proved anything yet as a hitter (except suckiness) other than Seager. Seager is a good hitter, but nothing extraordinary for a 3rd baseman.

I would trade Walker for the right hitter. If the Marlins suddenly/stupidly made Stanton available? Bye bye, Walker.

But I agree that it makes very little sense to trade Walker for pitching. IF the M's were poised to contend this season and the team genuinely felt trading Walker for Price would provide them that extra push, then I get it. As others have mentioned, we're nowhere near that point right now.

If you sign Cano for 8 years/$200 million [that's $25 million per], trade for Kemp [$20 million per year on average], maybe add Mike Napoli [$14-$15 million per?], then you've committed $60 million per season to your offense for the next several years. Your salary commitments per season are suddenly pushing $100 million per season and you have to maximize the return on your investment.

Under those circumstances, trading Walker for Price and absorbing $10 million per season in arbitration costs for the next two years might make some sense.

What do I know other than what I see, hear, and read? From everything I've gathered, Walker is a special talent/prospect. A potential ace. With Felix, Iwakuma, Walker, and whoever is left of the best remaining, I think we might well have as good of a starting rotation in the ML's as most anyone. I think you're right that Price for Walker makes little sense at this point in time.

As far as Walker for a very good hitter...I'll pass on that. From what I hear, Kemp is a high risk contract to assume (injuries nearing the Guti level). I wouldn't trade Walker for such a high risk player. Any other such trade involving Walker would have to blow me out of the water.

We've cleared a lot of salary off the books, as well as obtaining a huge new media contract. We've got a LOT of money to spend now. We have to take chances now. The fan base and its revenue stream at the gate has been dwindling for years now. For obvious reasons. We've got to be bold now.

Anyway...I just don't want to go to spring training with nothing much to get excited about in the middle of the order. I think I'd be bored to apathy if such a thing happened. Even I have my limitations as a fan.

[Sweezo]

As far as Walker for a very good hitter...I'll pass on that. From what I hear, Kemp is a high risk contract to assume (injuries nearing the Guti level). I wouldn't trade Walker for such a high risk player. Any other such trade involving Walker would have to blow me out of the water.

Oh God...I don't want them to entertain Walker for Kemp. Giancarlo Stanton is just about the beginning and end of the list of young hitters I'd seriously entertain trading Walker for.

[Bulltalk]

At this point, I don't care if they give Cano a 20 year 480 million dollar contract. But I'm certainly fine with a 240 million dollar 10 year contract. Why?

a) It's not my money
b) We're going to have to pay up to get a top of the line middle-of-the-order hitter
c) My only concern is years 7-10 of the contract, but I might be dead by then, so I don't care
d) We're the most boring offensive team I think I've ever seen for a stretch of years
e) I might actually get a little interested in the M's again
f) Maybe another decent FA hitter will also sign with us then
g) Maybe with some real meat in the order other players we have will hit better
h) We've got to start somewhere
i) This will free up other players as trade bait to acquire another good hitter
j) We suck and I'm so effing sick of sucking
k) Maybe someday we'll actually be relevant again when the weather turns nice out here
l) etc...

[BayAreaMadSkill]

Mariners offer Cano 10 year, 240 million?

**** it. Take it, Cano. Lets roll.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

It's official. Deal done.

----

Now I can't wait for the Seattle curse to come around and smack Cano down to a .270 hitter with 18 HRs.


EDIT: Now lets re-sign Morales and trade for Kemp!

[Bulltalk]

This is fantastic. But don't stop here. Full court press to get a few more hitters either through trade or FAcy. I want Z and the Mariners brass to go all-in towards making a contender now. We've got trade bait now:

--Nick Franklin
--Dustin Ackley
--James Paxton
--Brandon Mauer
--Justin Smoak
--Kyle Seager
--Brad MIller
--Erasmo Ramirez

No...not trade these players indiscriminately, but rather any of them/some combination of them for another good hitter. We don't get out of this hole we're in until we can score runs.

Key point...just keep pressing to get better RIGHT NOW! Worry about the making the team positionally a little later. Hitting is everything now.

[Sweezo]

Awesome. I was hitting 'refresh' on my browser and Twitter last night waiting for a deal to go down. When it sounded like it didn't happen last night and Cano/Jay-Z were leaving town, I was worried.

EDIT: Now lets re-sign Morales and trade for Kemp!

I don't know about Morales. He's a fine hitter but he turned down a 1 year/$14 million qualifying offer? How big of a contract does he want? For a full time DH? Cano's an elite player and I don't mind paying for him as an elite player. Plus, I think he's a domino. There's been a stigma that's stuck with the M's for so long that they cannot sign the big player and don't wish to commit the resources to actually compete. Now, they have Cano. And people are reporting the M's are in on

I'm thinking a trade of a surplus 2B to the Royals for Billy Butler [and I'm clearly not the only one thinking this] makes a lot of sense for both teams. Same with a trade for Kemp if you're willing to eat the salary. The M's starting outfield right now is pretty barren. Saunders, Almonte, and Ackley are it for right now.

[Sweezo]

This is fantastic. But don't stop here. Full court press to get a few more hitters either through trade or FAcy. I want Z and the Mariners brass to go all-in towards making a contender now. We've got trade bait now:

--Nick Franklin
--Dustin Ackley
--James Paxton
--Brandon Mauer
--Justin Smoak
--Kyle Seager
--Brad MIller
--Erasmo Ramirez

No...not trade these players indiscriminately, but rather any of them/some combination of them for another good hitter. We don't get out of this hole we're in until we can score runs.

Key point...just keep pressing to get better RIGHT NOW! Worry about the making the team positionally a little later. Hitting is everything now.

I like Seager and Miller where they are. When you pay $240 million on a 2B, it help offset that cost if you have good, cheap, productive players in support roles. Seager and Miller both fit that description IMO.

But just about another asset should be in play to upgrade the OF, 1B/DH, C, SP spots.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

I didn't know Morales turned down a 1 year, 14 mil offer. God, I was thinking we could resign him for 8 or 9 million. Ignore me then.

Is Billy Butler available? I would love to acquire him.

My friend mentioned Carlos Beltran, but man, I am NOT A FAN of him at all.

[Sweezo]

My friend mentioned Carlos Beltran, but man, I am NOT A FAN of him at all.

I am if the price is right. He's older but the guy just produces. Within the last two hours, national reporters have linked the M's to Beltran, David Price, Mike Napoli, Bartolo Colon, Rajai Davis, Choo, and Cruz. Sounds like this push to relevance is legit. While I don't like all of those names and the price attached, I'm willing to be open minded.

[BayAreaMadSkill]

Carlos Beltran is 36 though. Only a .330 OBP, 280 avg, 20 HR, 80 RBI? We could get someone to do that at a cheaper price. Sure he will usually excell in the playoffs, which is where his true value lies, but he is going to cost too much, IMO.

None of those hitters excite me. Maybe Napoli, but damn; I feel like the asking price will be ridiculous for him too.

I want David Price only if we add another very good hitter.

[Bulltalk]

My friend mentioned Carlos Beltran, but man, I am NOT A FAN of him at all.

I am if the price is right. He's older but the guy just produces. Within the last two hours, national reporters have linked the M's to Beltran, David Price, Mike Napoli, Bartolo Colon, Rajai Davis, Choo, and Cruz. Sounds like this push to relevance is legit. While I don't like all of those names and the price attached, I'm willing to be open minded.

Let me put it this way. With the Huskies landing Chris Petersen (Duck killer ) and the Mariners landing Cano, I didn't need my morning coffee to jolt me awake this morn.

[Sweezo]

Carlos Beltran is 36 though. Only a .330 OBP, 280 avg, 20 HR, 80 RBI? We could get someone to do that at a cheaper price. Sure he will usually excell in the playoffs, which is where his true value lies, but he is going to cost too much, IMO.

None of those hitters excite me. Maybe Napoli, but damn; I feel like the asking price will be ridiculous for him too.

I want David Price only if we add another very good hitter.

Beltran's age isn't a plus but I think he'd produce over a 2-3 year deal. He's definitely NOT my preferred choice for a free agent OF, but if we factor in [1] who's available, [2] our trade assets, and [3] the total cost I think he's a reasonable choice. Would I rather have/had Choo or Ellsbury? Very much so. Would I rather have Beltran for 3 years over Nelson Cruz for 4 years? YES.

And what's the relative cost? I think Choo will command a pretty hefty salary.

How crazy do the M's want to get? If Napoli and Beltran would be looking at 3 year deals at about $13 million per year, do you grab both? You're adding Napoli strictly as a 1B/DH if you want to keep him healthy and avoid aggravating his hip condition.

[Bulltalk]

Well...Beltran is gone.

I just want to say that I don't give a shyt about these players anymore:

--Justin Smoak
--Dustin Ackley
--Hector Noesi
--Jesus Montero
--Blake Beaven
--Michael Saunders
--Carlos Triunfel

I admit it. I'm sick of these guys' potential. If any team sees any value in them for something we might need...good riddance. I don't even care if they pan-out somewhere else. They just fell flat with us. Tired of waiting on them, hoping for them.

Of our young players, these I either see as having been somewhat productive, or having some trade value:

--Erasmo Ramirez
--Nick Franklin
--Danny Hultzen
--Carter Capps
--James Paxton
--Brandon Mauer

These guys I'm still holding out on, see as keepers unless well replaced, or bring back significant upgrade:

--Kyle Seager
--Stephen Pryor
--Brad Miller
--DJ Peterson

These are about my only untouchables, unless blown away by a deal:

--Taijuan Walker
--Mike Zunino

Or something like that...

[Bulltalk]

My temporary, unrealistic dream scenario:

1) Trade Jesus Montero and Nick Franklin to KC for Billy Butler

Montero will give them a possible future DH to replace Butler, and in Franklin they get a potential second baseman for the long term. We get our proven DH

2) Sign Shin-Soo Choo

Put him in left field to shore us up out there

3) Trade Paxton, DJ Peterson, Ackley, plus whomever for Matt Kemp

M's get another good hitter, and assume the health risks of Kemp, Dodgers get out of a lot of his contract, are loaded in the OF, get a good young pitcher, our top hitting 3B prospect, and Ackley, a multi-dimensional player who just may reach something resembling his potential down the line

4) Sign Bartolo Colon to short term contract

This would give us a good 3rd starter for next season until Hultzen or another youngster comes along

Lineup:

Miller SS
Seager 3B
Cano 2B
Kemp RF
Butler DH
Choo LF
Smoak IB
Zunino C
Saunders CF

Pitching:

Felix
Iwakuma
Colon
Walker
Ramirez

Bullpen:

Capps
Pryor
etc...

Bench:

Bloomquist
etc...

Obviously won't happen, but I'd be excited.