RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Clippers (Wed., 830PMEST)

[ozwizard8]

Where did i say that Kyrie is a horrible defender?

You made it seem like its a given that Hardy + THJ are horrible defenders and as if Kyrie needs to survive as a horrible defender. I saw Kyrie guard Steph Curry in the finals several times - aside from running around screens - Kyrie is a better one on one defender than Steph curry and no one ever imitates that Steph needs to survive as a bad defender. Kyrie (been watching him a while) can get aloof at times and over help but aside from that he's fundamentally sound on defense.

Neither of these guys are horrible defenders (Hardy, THJ, or Kyrie). I would say their avg at worst but it comes down to the coach making defense an issue and holding guys accountable...including your stars. I will say that our coaching needs to emphasize and stay on certain guys about certain elements of their defense. For Kyrie its aloofness and gambling too much. For Luka the effort, transition defense, and the whining for calls. For lively its bad positioning, general lack of experience at times on defense. We need a coach that is going to emphasize defense and point out the things each guy does to hold them accountable. But in terms of ability - all of these guys have the ability to be at best avg defenders and at best good to very good. So, I wouldn't call any of them horrible.

Kyrie is not a horrible defender, he's just short. Does best what he can to hold his ground. THJ and Hardy are bad defenders even though they both did decent last night vs LAC.
THJ can't stay infront of anyone, has very bad instincts as off ball defender (though he does take a lot more charges this year, so at least that has improved slightly). Hardy is just weak and inexperienced.

Playing short players means worse defense for the team. Portland team played Lillard, Atlanta played with Trae for their offense in the expense of defense.
This is not a boxing match where you are required to be under a certain weight. NBA does not limit average height on a team. So the only reason to play small/short players is offensive production. Mavs team have Luka to cover up on defense. If you add Kyrie and then THJ, it becomes impossible to defend at a respectable level.

Does the Mavs need 3 backcourt players earning $105m while frontcourt rotation is taking $20m?

I dont think either Kyrie or Brunson or Hardy is good on defense. You need to account how much money they are invested in and their pros and cons. Kyrie's defensive deficiencies with Luka are too much, while his pros with Luka are less impactful as Luka is already great on offense.

Celtics team is f'in tall. OKC guard rotation is solid height and size. Minnesota team have plus-defenders in Gobert-Edwards and 3-4 rotation players to cover Conley. Denver wing players are too big to cover Murray.

[41Dirk41]

Marknanen would be a better investment than Kyrie.
Three way trades etc to get pick for DFS-Dinwiddie and package it with Mavs unprotected would be a good way to entice Jazz.

Resigning Powell is not important. F'in vet min. Who cares? Kleber cost sth but it is not a big investment. Giving away unprotected first and max contract to Kyrie is a huge investment.

*Kyrie trade is like buying a used Porsche 911 with 120k miles on it.
- Not a good investment. You could've bought a Lexus SUV for frontcourt.
*Kyrie max extension is the huge operating cost of that Porsche.
- The car had 7 owners and everyone was happy to sell it.
*Powell vet min is like buying a cheap bicycle.
- You can throw (release) the bicycle without much remorse.
*Kleber deal is like maintenance of your old F-150 truck.
- If healthy Kleber can help the team including the playoffs. You can probably sell it (trade it without giving up much assets)

Markaneen wanted to be here before the Jazz and his price was all time low, after the trade Jazz GM wouldn't even pick up the phone for that package... Lauri is a 25yo all star. Come on.
You don't know players value very well

And Powell is a big problem when the FO/coach/owner consider him the first guy behind your 19yo starting C... A huge problem if he injuries player too

Kleber is washed and always injuried.

14M of dead money and a big hole at PF/C, look at real issues of the team and not your dislikes.

Dude do not try to move the goalpost or objectives here. You told Marknanen as an option. I never brought up Marknanen as an option. This is your idea to bring it here. So go mock yourself in front of the mirror.

We are talking about how much Mavs invested in Kyrie instead of other options. Kyrie package alone may not bring Marknanen, but it might be used with some other picks, taking salary back etc, to get Marknanen or some other frontcourt player. Aaron Gordon, Jerami Grant traded for feasible packages for Mavs but we did not go for that route and opted for Kyrie bomb.

Powell is playing for a vet. min. Its so easy to cut him so stop the BS. The reason he is getting minutes is we invested in backcourt Kyrie instead of a big man.

Kleber is costing 1/3 of Kyrie. I dont remember Mavs sending DFS-Dinwiddie-unprotected picks for Kleber this summer. Extension was not a good one but it still costed Mavs significantly less than Kyrie.

HUGE INVESTMENT in Kyrie is a disaster for Mavs. ($60m for Kyrie+THJ backcourt while playing $20m players for frontcourt is bonkers)
Investing Kyrie is like investing in an expensive used Porsche.
+ Porsche looks good but is not a first choice for a long road, winter time, going for family trips.
- Kyrie looks good on the court but not bringing wins, does not help team to win even against a losing Memphis team.
+ Old Porsche spends too much time on workshop.
- Old Kyrie is also absent when he is needed. (He did not played half of the games in last 5 years due to physical and mental injuries).

Mavs should've purchased a new LEXUS SUV (frontcourt) rather than an old Porsche to this roster.

Ok.

[Archx]

You made it seem like its a given that Hardy + THJ are horrible defenders and as if Kyrie needs to survive as a horrible defender. I saw Kyrie guard Steph Curry in the finals several times - aside from running around screens - Kyrie is a better one on one defender than Steph curry and no one ever imitates that Steph needs to survive as a bad defender. Kyrie (been watching him a while) can get aloof at times and over help but aside from that he's fundamentally sound on defense.

Neither of these guys are horrible defenders (Hardy, THJ, or Kyrie). I would say their avg at worst but it comes down to the coach making defense an issue and holding guys accountable...including your stars. I will say that our coaching needs to emphasize and stay on certain guys about certain elements of their defense. For Kyrie its aloofness and gambling too much. For Luka the effort, transition defense, and the whining for calls. For lively its bad positioning, general lack of experience at times on defense. We need a coach that is going to emphasize defense and point out the things each guy does to hold them accountable. But in terms of ability - all of these guys have the ability to be at best avg defenders and at best good to very good. So, I wouldn't call any of them horrible.

Kyrie is not a horrible defender, he's just short. Does best what he can to hold his ground. THJ and Hardy are bad defenders even though they both did decent last night vs LAC.
THJ can't stay infront of anyone, has very bad instincts as off ball defender (though he does take a lot more charges this year, so at least that has improved slightly). Hardy is just weak and inexperienced.

Playing short players means worse defense for the team. Portland team played Lillard, Atlanta played with Trae for their offense in the expense of defense.
This is not a boxing match where you are required to be under a certain weight. NBA does not limit average height on a team. So the only reason to play small/short players is offensive production. Mavs team have Luka to cover up on defense. If you add Kyrie and then THJ, it becomes impossible to defend at a respectable level.

Does the Mavs need 3 backcourt players earning $105m while frontcourt rotation is taking $20m?

I dont think either Kyrie or Brunson or Hardy is good on defense. You need to account how much money they are invested in and their pros and cons. Kyrie's defensive deficiencies with Luka are too much, while his pros with Luka are less impactful as Luka is already great on offense.

Celtics team is f'in tall. OKC guard rotation is solid height and size. Minnesota team have plus-defenders in Gobert-Edwards and 3-4 rotation players to cover Conley. Denver wing players are too big to cover Murray.

Did you basically just repeat what i said or was that another attempt to discredit Kyrie? I don't understand this post at all.