RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Grizzlies (Tuesd., 830PMEST)

[Mavrelous]

I said 1 of 3 things. They could just defend and get some rebounds and it would be enough. If you're useless in offensive side, you should at least be solid in D.

Did you watched what Smart was doing to Josh? And about his offense, what can he do, when he gets the ball? Send him in Euroleague and I guarantee you that he wouldn't do anything there as well, because his basketball skills are nonexistent.

Green defended fine yesterday, the 2 3s Smart hit on him were deep 3s, 3s you should let him have, he just happened to hit, he's not GPII or DJJ guard defender, he leaves space on screens, we know that, he compensates with other things, he wasn't the problem, he was +1 for a reason, THJ and Grant Williams were the problem defensively and ironically, Powell foul trouble since Kidd insists on forcing what's already failing (small ball against Memphis bullies) instead of trying something new like playing Holmes.
Offensively, THJ put up 6 shots, THJ! the guy who lets it fly immediately, Powell and Green, only 3 shots, there was no flow to the offense at all, Luka/Kyrie ISOs and mid range bricks.
If Luka is injured he should sit, he played very slow, and team needed energy, I'd rather lose with Luka rested than this disgraceful performance and it was clear it wasn't going anywhere.

[Bob8]

I said 1 of 3 things. They could just defend and get some rebounds and it would be enough. If you're useless in offensive side, you should at least be solid in D.

Did you watched what Smart was doing to Josh? And about his offense, what can he do, when he gets the ball? Send him in Euroleague and I guarantee you that he wouldn't do anything there as well, because his basketball skills are nonexistent.

Green defended fine yesterday, the 2 3s Smart hit on him were deep 3s, 3s you should let him have, he just happened to hit, he's not GPII or DJJ guard defender, he leaves space on screens, we know that, he compensates with other things, he wasn't the problem, he was +1 for a reason, THJ and Grant Williams were the problem defensively and ironically, Powell foul trouble since Kidd insists on forcing what's already failing (small ball against Memphis bullies) instead of trying something new like playing Holmes.
Offensively, THJ put up 6 shots, THJ! the guy who lets it fly immediately, Powell and Green, only 3 shots, there was no flow to the offense at all, Luka/Kyrie ISOs and mid range bricks.
If Luka is injured he should sit, he played very slow, and team needed energy, I'd rather lose with Luka rested than this disgraceful performance and it was clear it wasn't going anywhere.

You didn't see how Smart attacked him multiple times in the paint and got easy separation?

Look, if a player can't do anything in half court offense, and Josh can't, he won't get the ball or shots, when D is not doubling stars. Similar goes with THJ, he's the best, when there's enough spacing and Kyrie is taking his shots anyway, which is normal in a game like that, because you for sure don't want THJ to create for himself.

Grizzlies without 2 Cs shouldn't dominated rebounding and they for sure shouldn't score 120 without Ja and JJJ. And that's where Mavs lost the game. And exactly there are my expectations for role players. You're limited in O, no problem, just defend and fight for lose balls.

I'm sure we will see even worse games from Luka and Kyrie and you can't win those if others don't do at least something good.

[Mavrelous]

You didn't see how Smart attacked him multiple times in the paint and got easy separation?

Look, if a player can't do anything in half court offense, and Josh can't, he won't get the ball or shots, when D is not doubling stars. Similar goes with THJ, he's the best, when there's enough spacing and Kyrie is taking his shots anyway, which is normal in a game like that, because you for sure don't want THJ to create for himself.

Grizzlies without 2 Cs shouldn't dominated rebounding and they for sure shouldn't score 120 without Ja and JJJ. And that's where Mavs lost the game. And exactly there are my expectations for role players. You're limited in O, no problem, just defend and fight for lose balls.

I'm sure we will see even worse games from Luka and Kyrie and you can't win those if others don't do at least something good.

I don't remember these specific plays, but Smart is +17, Green is +1, clearly Smart did most of his damage with Green off the court.
THJ put up a lot of shots with Kyrie and Luka before, this game was different.
Major problem defensively yesterday was 2nd chance point, 21 Vs 8, points off TO, 17, Green on the perimeter isn't the primary reason for 2nd chance points, for reference against MIN this battle was won 21-24 against massive front court.
There are games where role players miss a lot of shots (MIN 1st game for example), or supporting cast simply is bad (1st 3 qtrs against OKC), but this game role players didn't get a chance offensively, Luka couldn't involve them.

[41Dirk41]

I agree with Bob, our role players are limited but it's ok. They are role players.

But i think the biggest problem is that they are not used in best way...

-G-Will is a 3 points shooter Wing... He played C, he took 1 midrange and 1 layup. Awful. He isn't his job.
-THJ is a streaky shooter and nothing else. He can't defend, he can't pass,rebound or dribble.
6shoots in 30minutes.
-Powell/Josh can't play against tough teams. They are too soft. Pussy.
-Holmes 3 minutes, i see the Luka-Irving-THJ-Josh-Hardy lineup. I didn't believe it was possible. Ouch.

We need a coach or this season is done, even with a starting wing and a backup C.
This team can't play team basketball, we are horrible to watch.

Oh yes, someone pull Luka of the game when he is injuried. Please.

[41Dirk41]

And if a team shoots 10 times more than you probably they always win.

[Bob8]

You didn't see how Smart attacked him multiple times in the paint and got easy separation?

Look, if a player can't do anything in half court offense, and Josh can't, he won't get the ball or shots, when D is not doubling stars. Similar goes with THJ, he's the best, when there's enough spacing and Kyrie is taking his shots anyway, which is normal in a game like that, because you for sure don't want THJ to create for himself.

Grizzlies without 2 Cs shouldn't dominated rebounding and they for sure shouldn't score 120 without Ja and JJJ. And that's where Mavs lost the game. And exactly there are my expectations for role players. You're limited in O, no problem, just defend and fight for lose balls.

I'm sure we will see even worse games from Luka and Kyrie and you can't win those if others don't do at least something good.

I don't remember these specific plays, but Smart is +17, Green is +1, clearly Smart did most of his damage with Green off the court.
THJ put up a lot of shots with Kyrie and Luka before, this game was different.
Major problem defensively yesterday was 2nd chance point, 21 Vs 8, points off TO, 17, Green on the perimeter isn't the primary reason for 2nd chance points, for reference against MIN this battle was won 21-24 against massive front court.
There are games where role players miss a lot of shots (MIN 1st game for example), or supporting cast simply is bad (1st 3 qtrs against OKC), but this game role players didn't get a chance offensively, Luka couldn't involve them.

Look, those +/- are useless for rating performance of a single player, who is having 0/3/0 game as a starter. He was +1 because he mostly wasn't part of small ball experiment. No matter what +/- say, he was useless yesterday.

I'm ok with whatever they did in O, we know how limited they are, but they should do more in D. It's totally different ball game, if Memphis didn't have multiple second choices, freeway in the paint and wide open 3s. You have to take at least something away.

[Mavrelous]

Look, those +/- are useless for rating performance of a single player, who is having 0/3/0 game as a starter. He was +1 because he mostly wasn't part of small ball experiment. No matter what +/- say, he was useless yesterday.

I'm ok with whatever they did in O, we know how limited they are, but they should do more in D. It's totally different ball game, if Memphis didn't have multiple second choices, freeway in the paint and wide open 3s. You have to take at least something away.

Go over the boxscore in nba.com, you can watch all possessions
0 wide open 3s on Green's man.
1 open 3, by Smart, deep one, Green gave him space.
1 VERY deep 3 by Kennard, pull up at the end of the shot clock.

You know who allowed the most wide open 3s? Kyrie and Luka.

It's easy to say they did nothing on O, they did nothing because they didn't get the ball.
Grant Williams was horrible yesterday, so was THJ, Kidd was a disaster, watching the players getting bullies and going smaller, defensively, a lot of it is on him.
Offensively, it's on Luka.

[Archx]

You know who allowed the most wide open 3s? Kyrie and Luka.

Luka played great defense vs Wolves but absolutely had zero intentions to guard Smart or anyone else. If his quad is bothering him so much, he should sit. You can't play like you don't care vs lesser opponents, specially in the NBA.

Green also let any player he defended bully him. He got pushed around like a ragdoll. I turned off the game midway 3rd Q, was such an embarrassing effort on both ends i just couldn't watch.

And this atrocious offense 2 players taking turns 1v5. I mean, how can experienced ex player and coach come up with this crap year after year and Cuban is just sitting there thinking, "yeah well that's ok, we'll get better one day".

[Bob8]

Look, those +/- are useless for rating performance of a single player, who is having 0/3/0 game as a starter. He was +1 because he mostly wasn't part of small ball experiment. No matter what +/- say, he was useless yesterday.

I'm ok with whatever they did in O, we know how limited they are, but they should do more in D. It's totally different ball game, if Memphis didn't have multiple second choices, freeway in the paint and wide open 3s. You have to take at least something away.

Go over the boxscore in nba.com, you can watch all possessions
0 wide open 3s on Green's man.
1 open 3, by Smart, deep one, Green gave him space.
1 VERY deep 3 by Kennard, pull up at the end of the shot clock.

You know who allowed the most wide open 3s? Kyrie and Luka.

It's easy to say they did nothing on O, they did nothing because they didn't get the ball.
Grant Williams was horrible yesterday, so was THJ, Kidd was a disaster, watching the players getting bullies and going smaller, defensively, a lot of it is on him.
Offensively, it's on Luka.

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

[Mavrelous]

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

[Mavrelous]

Luka played great defense vs Wolves but absolutely had zero intentions to guard Smart or anyone else. If his quad is bothering him so much, he should sit. You can't play like you don't care vs lesser opponents, specially in the NBA.

He shouldn't guard Smart, and if he's switched on him, then I'd understand, the wide open 3s were bad closeouts post rotation, and I agree, if he's injured he should sit.

[Bob8]

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

I don't think you know what a horrible game means?

[Mavrelous]

Tell me, what can do Green with the ball in half court O, when he's guarded?

Josh was easily beaten by Smart in 1 on 1 D at least twice in very short period of time. I'm not saying that they lost because of that, I'm saying what is Josh value, if he can even guard Smart on ball?

I agree it's on Luka and I explained to you that no one can play all RS games perfectly. Especially when he visually doesn't look 100%. But good teams should find other ways to win against bad teams, and D is normally the way to go. And there I would expect defensive specialists to lead the way.

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

I don't think you know what a horrible game means?

We've been watching him for 6 years, he can put up great stats while playing bad, he had a good statline yesterday, it was a horrible game.

[Bob8]

Josh is MLE level player, he shouldn't be able to do much, if he was he would be paid more.
I'm fine with a bad game, but Luka has missed 3 games, had 5 horrible ones (Raps, Pels, Jazz, Cavs and Grizzlies), and few bad ones (DEN 1st game, Bulls).
That's 1 in a 4 where Luka isn't a factor or a bad one, is this good?

I don't think you know what a horrible game means?

We've been watching him for 6 years, he can put up great stats while playing bad, he had a good statline yesterday, it was a horrible game.

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

[Mavrelous]

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

Luka handles the ball almost 100% and gets the shot if the offensive set fails, he will get his stats regardless.
He can be blitzed and doubled and then his teammates should carry the load, sometimes they fail (for example, after 1st quarter against MIN in the 1st game, they changed the coverage, to take the ball out if his hands), it wasn't on him that they failed, sometimes it's on him.

[41Dirk41]

I don't think you know what a horrible game means?

We've been watching him for 6 years, he can put up great stats while playing bad, he had a good statline yesterday, it was a horrible game.

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

[daoneandonly]

I don't think you know what a horrible game means?

We've been watching him for 6 years, he can put up great stats while playing bad, he had a good statline yesterday, it was a horrible game.

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

You call it Josh Green

[Bob8]

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

Luka handles the ball almost 100% and gets the shot if the offensive set fails, he will get his stats regardless.
He can be blitzed and doubled and then his teammates should carry the load, sometimes they fail (for example, after 1st quarter against MIN in the 1st game, they changed the coverage, to take the ball out if his hands), it wasn't on him that they failed, sometimes it's on him.

You still need to score 30+ points with 43% Fg. Do you know what's Trae's career Fg%?

I can go with bad game, horrible not.

[Mavrelous]

And how do we call a game when someone plays bad and has disastrous stats?

Luka handles the ball almost 100% and gets the shot if the offensive set fails, he will get his stats regardless.
He can be blitzed and doubled and then his teammates should carry the load, sometimes they fail (for example, after 1st quarter against MIN in the 1st game, they changed the coverage, to take the ball out if his hands), it wasn't on him that they failed, sometimes it's on him.

You still need to score 30+ points with 43% Fg. Do you know what's Trae's career Fg%?

I can go with bad game, horrendous not.

Trae Yound isn't in conversation for top 3 player in the league, not top 20 even, Luka has different standrads.

[Bob8]

Luka handles the ball almost 100% and gets the shot if the offensive set fails, he will get his stats regardless.
He can be blitzed and doubled and then his teammates should carry the load, sometimes they fail (for example, after 1st quarter against MIN in the 1st game, they changed the coverage, to take the ball out if his hands), it wasn't on him that they failed, sometimes it's on him.

You still need to score 30+ points with 43% Fg. Do you know what's Trae's career Fg%?

I can go with bad game, horrendous not.

Trae Yound isn't in conversation for top 3 player in the league, not top 20 even, Luka has different standrads.

You know what is horrible, if your team is blown out by a bad team, missing its best 2 players, while your 2 best players are scoring 64 points with average efficiency.