RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Clippers (Wed., 830PMEST)

[Mavrelous]

Damn, I just watched, game was in hand, Kawhi did Kawhi things against exhausted Mavs defense.
Small ball lineup surprised this time.

[ozwizard8]

Damn, I just watched, game was in hand, Kawhi did Kawhi things against exhausted Mavs defense.
Small ball lineup surprised this time.

Mavs team need elite athleticism on frontcourt to deal with these type of stars. I dont want to be nostalgic but having Marion+Chandler was a really great formula. Marion could slow down Kawhi with Chandler waiting inside as a goal keeper.

1. G.Williams is nice, but he is nowhere near S.Marion's level of athleticism. Matrix was one of the few players that can defend prime Lebron as an athlete.

2. DJJ can jump but then again, he does not seem to have size. He is two inches shorter, probably has less wingspan and more importantly weighs less. Marion was able to stand his ground against elite wing players and also jump to challenge shots, take the rebound.

3. Lively is good because he has that Chandler frame. The only problem that he is only a rookie, and it'll take time to adjust NBA season, refs etc.

Can Prosper become new Marion?

[kacey ring]

Give credit to Ty Lue and the Clippers, their defensive game plan on Luka was pretty solid throughout the game. Westbrook still bringing that defensive intensity. Kawhi was solid too. 9 game win streak for them.

Was really hoping the Mavs role players could pull off a big win. But the small ball lineup did us 0 favors on defense, especially the constant doubling of Harden that lead to easy buckets.

Would be nice to get back to full health soon.

This is always the case for Mavs. Cuban still couldn't put a team around Luka that capable to slow down Kawhi.

Carlisle getting eliminated in first round was mocked but when Kawhi-PG are healthy, they have a loaded team. The front court rotation of ours is not enough to win a series over them. Luka Magic will get many games and it will be close. But the problem is lack of plus defenders, rim protection and rebounding. Same thing happened against GSW. Their frontcourt with Wiggins, Dray, Looney were better than ours. Jazz had a better frontcourt on paper as well but Maxi Kleber was able to beat Gobert matchup with small ball approach. If you forget about the season for a moment, you'll see the Mavs have little to no chance in playoffs without upgrading the frontcourt. (I like Lively a lot but its too much to ask from him to play like 29 year old T.Chandler)

Against this hot Clippers team on a win-streak, Kyrie would not change the scenery much. We would do worse defensively and Kyrie would get shots of Exum and THJ. Exum shot 6-12, THJ 8-21, Hardy 5-13.
46 non-Luka shots for the backcourt. With Kyrie, 3 more shots would be made, but the Mavs would concede 2-3 easier layups and Clippers would get 1-2 more offensive rebounds.

Mavs need Lively back more urgently. And to be honest, the Mavs need another solid max player at SF-PF rotation than kyrie back.

No doubt Lively’s presence would’ve made a difference in this game (or any game). His defensive contributions are discussed enough, but he helps with the flow of offense when Luka is doubled/blitzed all game.

He seems to be the only guy who plays around the free throw line whenever Luka is doubled/blitz and he does well attacking the rim or kicking out for a three.

If I recall nearly every release valve for Luka in this game was someone already on the perimeter. Whereas when we doubled Harden it was a simple pass to Mann at the FT line which turned into a Leonard/Zubac dunk or layup. There were some other gameplan items that, IMO, should’ve been tweaked, but were missing too much personnel.

Mavs’ complimentary guys have looked way better this year than last, but I agree that we’re still missing a piece or two even when at full-health. We’re headed for some play-in games.

[Archx]

Mavs are repeating last season, Luka is playing too many minutes, being targeted in most of them by opponents. Playoffs usage can't work in RS.

Luka on the court or off the court does not matter, defense sucks.
They play Luka to at least be good on offense. This approach may not be the optimal one but I dont think this is the problem.
The problem is the frontcourt rotation.
* On a good team DJJ-Williams would probably be rotational players but not starters.
* D.Powell would not be on the team or be 4th best center of the team that only plays 1 out of 10 games at 5mpg.

Mavs desperately needed Kyrie in this game. It would give Doncic a much needed rest. Plus Kyrie can pass the ball and is a good playmaker when he has to be. If Hardy can survive 23 mins by being a horrible defender (just like THJ), Kyrie can aswell. It's just that Kyrie is light years ahead than both of them on offense.

[Mavrelous]

Damn, I just watched, game was in hand, Kawhi did Kawhi things against exhausted Mavs defense.
Small ball lineup surprised this time.

Can Prosper become new Marion?

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution now is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

[ozwizard8]

Give credit to Ty Lue and the Clippers, their defensive game plan on Luka was pretty solid throughout the game. Westbrook still bringing that defensive intensity. Kawhi was solid too. 9 game win streak for them.

Was really hoping the Mavs role players could pull off a big win. But the small ball lineup did us 0 favors on defense, especially the constant doubling of Harden that lead to easy buckets.

Would be nice to get back to full health soon.

This is always the case for Mavs. Cuban still couldn't put a team around Luka that capable to slow down Kawhi.

Carlisle getting eliminated in first round was mocked but when Kawhi-PG are healthy, they have a loaded team. The front court rotation of ours is not enough to win a series over them. Luka Magic will get many games and it will be close. But the problem is lack of plus defenders, rim protection and rebounding. Same thing happened against GSW. Their frontcourt with Wiggins, Dray, Looney were better than ours. Jazz had a better frontcourt on paper as well but Maxi Kleber was able to beat Gobert matchup with small ball approach. If you forget about the season for a moment, you'll see the Mavs have little to no chance in playoffs without upgrading the frontcourt. (I like Lively a lot but its too much to ask from him to play like 29 year old T.Chandler)

Against this hot Clippers team on a win-streak, Kyrie would not change the scenery much. We would do worse defensively and Kyrie would get shots of Exum and THJ. Exum shot 6-12, THJ 8-21, Hardy 5-13.
46 non-Luka shots for the backcourt. With Kyrie, 3 more shots would be made, but the Mavs would concede 2-3 easier layups and Clippers would get 1-2 more offensive rebounds.

Mavs need Lively back more urgently. And to be honest, the Mavs need another solid max player at SF-PF rotation than kyrie back.

No doubt Lively’s presence would’ve made a difference in this game (or any game). His defensive contributions are discussed enough, but he helps with the flow of offense when Luka is doubled/blitzed all game.

He seems to be the only guy who plays around the free throw line whenever Luka is doubled/blitz and he does well attacking the rim or kicking out for a three.

If I recall nearly every release valve for Luka in this game was someone already on the perimeter. Whereas when we doubled Harden it was a simple pass to Mann at the FT line which turned into a Leonard/Zubac dunk or layup. There were some other gameplan items that, IMO, should’ve been tweaked, but were missing too much personnel.

Mavs’ complimentary guys have looked way better this year than last, but I agree that we’re still missing a piece or two even when at full-health. We’re headed for some play-in games.

I think Lively is very important. I would put him as the second most important Mavs player.
Mcgee did not work last year because when he got the ball at FT line, he was not able to pass it. Lively is already doing that greatly. Of course, he is a more composed player, a better defender, and has much more BBIQ and high motor.

DJJ-Grant-Exum are very good additions for what was available as a cap space. Props to front office.
For what they are earning, they are contributing greatly and they are a good fit!
The problem is the competition. Every team has a cap space. Some invested in right max players and some did not. I mean if you pay Lavine-Derozan-Vucevic max money type of salaries you cannot go further.
* Kyrie-Brown-Tatum failed miserably.
* Kyrie-Harden-Durant failed miserably.
It was mostly Kyrie's fault but also bad roster construction. Personally, I dont expect much from Booker-Beal-Durant trio. I mean if you invest in all offensive punchers and then play Nurkic at C...

We need a DJJ-Grant type of player but the elite version of it. I wish there was a Shawn Marion regen... DJJ-Grant type of player but who can defend(slow down) Kawhi-Lebron-Giannis or defend Jokic for a couple of possessions.

[41Dirk41]

Mavs are repeating last season, Luka is playing too many minutes, being targeted in most of them by opponents. Playoffs usage can't work in RS.

The problem is the frontcourt rotation.
* On a good team DJJ-Williams would probably be rotational players but not starters.
* D.Powell would not be on the team or be 4th best center of the team that only plays 1 out of 10 games at 5mpg.

That's the point...

[41Dirk41]

Damn, I just watched, game was in hand, Kawhi did Kawhi things against exhausted Mavs defense.
Small ball lineup surprised this time.

Can Prosper become new Marion?

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution not is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

People forget that Marion was a 20ppg in his prime...

[Maverick41]

Heard from a Mavs podcast that Clips shot 24 of 25 in the restricted area. That's 96% fellas. We need some frontcourt help bad. Like really bad.

[ozwizard8]

Can Prosper become new Marion?

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution not is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

People forget that Marion was a 20ppg in his prime...

Yes that is not reasonable to expect to find a new Shawn Marion for a late 1st round pick.
That is the reason neither DJJ, Grant Williams are at that level.
DJJ is getting paid vet min. Williams is $12m.

It takes a Kyrie salary to find an elite frontcourt like Matrix. Why does Mavs insist to invest on a scorer backcourt while having Luka?

[ozwizard8]

Damn, I just watched, game was in hand, Kawhi did Kawhi things against exhausted Mavs defense.
Small ball lineup surprised this time.

Can Prosper become new Marion?

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution now is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

Prosper fits the athleticism required for our frontcourt. Similar physical skillset to Marion.
Neither of Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ will get us there though. Beggars can't be choosers.

You cannot invest max in Kyrie while having Luka and then roll the dice on vet min, MLE guys to compete with Kawhi-Lebron-Giannis.

Luka team should not invest their 2nd and 3rd highest salary, a total of $60m in backcourt players who cannot defend. Kyrie and THJ earning almost $60m and that is bonkers.
Frontcourt: G.Williams, Lively and DJJ earn a total of $19m.

For comparison, Denver frontcourt is making total of $103m.

[Mavrelous]

Can Prosper become new Marion?

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution now is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

Prosper fits the athleticism required for our frontcourt. Similar physical skillset to Marion.
Neither of Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ will get us there though. Beggars can't be choosers.

You cannot invest max in Kyrie while having Luka and then roll the dice on vet min, MLE guys to compete with Kawhi-Lebron-Giannis.

Luka team should not invest their 2nd and 3rd highest salary, a total of $60m in backcourt players who cannot defend. Kyrie and THJ earning almost $60m and that is bonkers.
Frontcourt: G.Williams, Lively and DJJ earn a total of $19m.

For comparison, Denver frontcourt is making total of $103m.

If there's a trade of Kyrie for elite wing + someone like Sexton I'm all for it, I don't think there is...

[41Dirk41]

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution not is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

People forget that Marion was a 20ppg in his prime...

Yes that is not reasonable to expect to find a new Shawn Marion for a late 1st round pick.
That is the reason neither DJJ, Grant Williams are at that level.
DJJ is getting paid vet min. Williams is $12m.

It takes a Kyrie salary to find an elite frontcourt like Matrix. Why does Mavs insist to invest on a scorer backcourt while having Luka?

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

[BliscoSantos]

Mavs are a flawed team...they have too many guards and not enough big men and Wings...Luka,Kai,Timmy,Hardy,Green,Curry,Dante are all PG or SG,even though some(like Timmy and Green) are forced to Play SF...I know that basketball is positionless ,but it's clear they lack size on the SF and PF position,and without Lively they have no C capable of playing big minutes...Yes ,they did good with the signings of Dante,Grant,DJJ and drafting Lively but they also made mistakes by trading for Holmes,resigning Powell and signing Curry...Instead of Curry a wing like Mcdaniels(TOR) would of been more usefull, instead of Powell someone like Biyombo as a backup big

[ozwizard8]

I'm not good at evaluating raw talent, from what I see, Prosper is very bad offensively, not even fit to be 10th man, it's up to the development staff to know if he can develop.
Yes, mavs need athletic 6'7"-6'9" forward, I don't think they are gettable this deadline, but in the off season, only solution now is taking fliers on flawed players on the cheap (Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ)...

Prosper fits the athleticism required for our frontcourt. Similar physical skillset to Marion.
Neither of Achiwua, Okeke, OPJ will get us there though. Beggars can't be choosers.

You cannot invest max in Kyrie while having Luka and then roll the dice on vet min, MLE guys to compete with Kawhi-Lebron-Giannis.

Luka team should not invest their 2nd and 3rd highest salary, a total of $60m in backcourt players who cannot defend. Kyrie and THJ earning almost $60m and that is bonkers.
Frontcourt: G.Williams, Lively and DJJ earn a total of $19m.

For comparison, Denver frontcourt is making total of $103m.

If there's a trade of Kyrie for elite wing + someone like Sexton I'm all for it, I don't think there is...

Looking at what Lillard net Portland is just exciting.
Half of that compensation would be great.

[ozwizard8]

People forget that Marion was a 20ppg in his prime...

Yes that is not reasonable to expect to find a new Shawn Marion for a late 1st round pick.
That is the reason neither DJJ, Grant Williams are at that level.
DJJ is getting paid vet min. Williams is $12m.

It takes a Kyrie salary to find an elite frontcourt like Matrix. Why does Mavs insist to invest on a scorer backcourt while having Luka?

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

[41Dirk41]

Yes that is not reasonable to expect to find a new Shawn Marion for a late 1st round pick.
That is the reason neither DJJ, Grant Williams are at that level.
DJJ is getting paid vet min. Williams is $12m.

It takes a Kyrie salary to find an elite frontcourt like Matrix. Why does Mavs insist to invest on a scorer backcourt while having Luka?

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

Markaneen and Ayton were easy and cheap trade.
But they prefer to resign Powell and Kleber.

But it's not related to Irving, we can make good trade anyway. The problem is Cuban.

[ejs78]

So you admit it was a mistake?

Bob its a blanket statement that all teams make mistakes everyone of them and not pointing to a specific situation.You live in a Mavs bubble and that's ok if you want to do that but you're really grabbing for straws at this point.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM Forums mobile app

You have one of the most losing mentality I've ever seen, seriuosly ... Watching and comparing worse teams of the league with Mavs is the right path to mediocrity.
And here we are so i know you are happy with this situation. Good for you.

Maybe it's Detroit people mindset.
I don't know honestly.

Btw not a bad game, our S5 had maybe 2 NBA starters. Maybe not.
We can't win against good teams with this material.

Of course 18 minutes of 3-1-1 line stat by the worst NBA player ever born didn't help.

The others at least tried to play basketball, but we can't expect too much.

We miss Kyrie a lot.

But like my friend said "Sky isn't falling" and Detroit, Charlotte, Indiana ecc ecc are worse than us and you didn't remember how bad were the Mavs before Cuban so it's another good day for cheering Dallas Mavericks.

Really really reaching with this one per usual.

Watching games of other teams is leading to a path of mediocrity. Lol.

Yeah I have a losing mentality cuz I can control what the team does and how they play. Bahaha



Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[joesha1698]

Mavs are repeating last season, Luka is playing too many minutes, being targeted in most of them by opponents. Playoffs usage can't work in RS.

Luka on the court or off the court does not matter, defense sucks.
They play Luka to at least be good on offense. This approach may not be the optimal one but I dont think this is the problem.
The problem is the frontcourt rotation.
* On a good team DJJ-Williams would probably be rotational players but not starters.
* D.Powell would not be on the team or be 4th best center of the team that only plays 1 out of 10 games at 5mpg.

Mavs desperately needed Kyrie in this game. It would give Doncic a much needed rest. Plus Kyrie can pass the ball and is a good playmaker when he has to be. If Hardy can survive 23 mins by being a horrible defender (just like THJ), Kyrie can aswell. It's just that Kyrie is light years ahead than both of them on offense.

Kyrie is considered a horrible defender based on what? His defense is no better or worse than Lillard or Steph Curry. I think you guys just make stuff up.

[joesha1698]

Yes that is not reasonable to expect to find a new Shawn Marion for a late 1st round pick.
That is the reason neither DJJ, Grant Williams are at that level.
DJJ is getting paid vet min. Williams is $12m.

It takes a Kyrie salary to find an elite frontcourt like Matrix. Why does Mavs insist to invest on a scorer backcourt while having Luka?

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

'

Blaming Kyrie for the team dropping to the 11th seed is dishonest. He played very well. Its not Kyrie's fault you traded all your defense to obtain him or Powell was your starting center. And Kyrie is not the problem with this team. Defense and rebounding is and to some extent Luka ball. Our best player needs to play defense and stop whining to the refs all game long and get back in transition defense. Our front office needs to go out and get a veteran center and a starting power forward that can put the ball in the basket/ protect it. We also need a coach to actually coach Luka. Bench his arse if he keeps whining or doesnt get back on defense or doesnt push the ball in the full court. We do not need to play Luka ball for 48 minutes. We need a transition offensive game, guys need to be held accountable for their defensive effort and whining, and the front office needs to address our PF and C position. No team in nba history has won anything with a 19 year old starting center that hasnt filled out. Hopefully trades are coming.