RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Clippers (Wed., 830PMEST)

[41Dirk41]

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

'

Blaming Kyrie for the team dropping to the 11th seed is dishonest. He played very well. Its not Kyrie's fault you traded all your defense to obtain him or Powell was your starting center. And Kyrie is not the problem with this team. Defense and rebounding is and to some extent Luka ball. Our best player needs to play defense and stop whining to the refs all game long and get back in transition defense. Our front office needs to go out and get a veteran center and a starting power forward that can put the ball in the basket/ protect it. We also need a coach to actually coach Luka. Bench his arse if he keeps whining or doesnt get back on defense or doesnt push the ball in the full court. We do not need to play Luka ball for 48 minutes. We need a transition offensive game, guys need to be held accountable for their defensive effort and whining, and the front office needs to address our PF and C position. No team in nba history has won anything with a 19 year old starting center that hasnt filled out. Hopefully trades are coming.

Totally agree.

[Archx]

Luka on the court or off the court does not matter, defense sucks.
They play Luka to at least be good on offense. This approach may not be the optimal one but I dont think this is the problem.
The problem is the frontcourt rotation.
* On a good team DJJ-Williams would probably be rotational players but not starters.
* D.Powell would not be on the team or be 4th best center of the team that only plays 1 out of 10 games at 5mpg.

Mavs desperately needed Kyrie in this game. It would give Doncic a much needed rest. Plus Kyrie can pass the ball and is a good playmaker when he has to be. If Hardy can survive 23 mins by being a horrible defender (just like THJ), Kyrie can aswell. It's just that Kyrie is light years ahead than both of them on offense.

Kyrie is considered a horrible defender based on what? His defense is no better or worse than Lillard or Steph Curry. I think you guys just make stuff up.

Where did i say that Kyrie is a horrible defender?

[joesha1698]

Mavs desperately needed Kyrie in this game. It would give Doncic a much needed rest. Plus Kyrie can pass the ball and is a good playmaker when he has to be. If Hardy can survive 23 mins by being a horrible defender (just like THJ), Kyrie can aswell. It's just that Kyrie is light years ahead than both of them on offense.

Kyrie is considered a horrible defender based on what? His defense is no better or worse than Lillard or Steph Curry. I think you guys just make stuff up.

Where did i say that Kyrie is a horrible defender?

You made it seem like its a given that Hardy + THJ are horrible defenders and as if Kyrie needs to survive as a horrible defender. I saw Kyrie guard Steph Curry in the finals several times - aside from running around screens - Kyrie is a better one on one defender than Steph curry and no one ever imitates that Steph needs to survive as a bad defender. Kyrie (been watching him a while) can get aloof at times and over help but aside from that he's fundamentally sound on defense.

Neither of these guys are horrible defenders (Hardy, THJ, or Kyrie). I would say their avg at worst but it comes down to the coach making defense an issue and holding guys accountable...including your stars. I will say that our coaching needs to emphasize and stay on certain guys about certain elements of their defense. For Kyrie its aloofness and gambling too much. For Luka the effort, transition defense, and the whining for calls. For lively its bad positioning, general lack of experience at times on defense. We need a coach that is going to emphasize defense and point out the things each guy does to hold them accountable. But in terms of ability - all of these guys have the ability to be at best avg defenders and at best good to very good. So, I wouldn't call any of them horrible.

[Archx]

Kyrie is considered a horrible defender based on what? His defense is no better or worse than Lillard or Steph Curry. I think you guys just make stuff up.

Where did i say that Kyrie is a horrible defender?

You made it seem like its a given that Hardy + THJ are horrible defenders and as if Kyrie needs to survive as a horrible defender. I saw Kyrie guard Steph Curry in the finals several times - aside from running around screens - Kyrie is a better one on one defender than Steph curry and no one ever imitates that Steph needs to survive as a bad defender. Kyrie (been watching him a while) can get aloof at times and over help but aside from that he's fundamentally sound on defense.

Neither of these guys are horrible defenders (Hardy, THJ, or Kyrie). I would say their avg at worst but it comes down to the coach making defense an issue and holding guys accountable...including your stars. I will say that our coaching needs to emphasize and stay on certain guys about certain elements of their defense. For Kyrie its aloofness and gambling too much. For Luka the effort, transition defense, and the whining for calls. For lively its bad positioning, general lack of experience at times on defense. We need a coach that is going to emphasize defense and point out the things each guy does to hold them accountable. But in terms of ability - all of these guys have the ability to be at best avg defenders and at best good to very good. So, I wouldn't call any of them horrible.

Kyrie is not a horrible defender, he's just short. Does best what he can to hold his ground. THJ and Hardy are bad defenders even though they both did decent last night vs LAC.
THJ can't stay infront of anyone, has very bad instincts as off ball defender (though he does take a lot more charges this year, so at least that has improved slightly). Hardy is just weak and inexperienced.

[Mavrelous]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

[ejs78]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

And Exum

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[BliscoSantos]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

Instead of sitting him in games they have Little chance of winning(they overplay him in those games) ,they sit him against teams you should be able to beat(if he played)

[ejs78]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

Instead of sitting him in games they have Little chance of winning(they overplay him in those games) ,they sit him against teams you should be able to beat(if he played)

Never understood why they do this.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Archx]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

Instead of sitting him in games they have Little chance of winning(they overplay him in those games) ,they sit him against teams you should be able to beat(if he played)

Never understood why they do this.

Kidd is just as confused as we are probably.

[Mavrelous]

Luka out against the Rockets, Kai and Lively also out

Instead of sitting him in games they have Little chance of winning(they overplay him in those games) ,they sit him against teams you should be able to beat(if he played)

Same as last year they had a long hard fought OT road game, went to POR for 2 B2B games, plays Luka with scrubs in 1 and the rest of the team in the other, loses both.
There was no poiny in Luka playing DEN game...

[41Dirk41]

If only Powell didn't injuried Kyrie...

[Dali]

Yeah looks like Luka and Dante are both out, resting no doubt, they dont want them to play these back to back games.

Which is strange, you'd think you want to win both of these games to improve the record to 18-11.

[Mavrelous]

Who plays PG though? That's just horrible planning, last year when Luka was out, Dinwiddie and Kemba played point, when Dinwiddie and Kemba weren't there for 2 game, MWIV and Green/Hardy played.
Luka, Kai, Dante and Green are out, Seth is questionable, Hardy is the only ball handler and he sucks as offense initiator, I hope it doesn't crumble in horrific fashion and they manage to make it resepctable.

[41Dirk41]

With 7 bodies available i'm just curious to see how Kidd will not play Holmes.

[ozwizard8]

Because we needed badly a Brunson replacement and no elite two way wing were and are available for that price.

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

Markaneen and Ayton were easy and cheap trade.
But they prefer to resign Powell and Kleber.

But it's not related to Irving, we can make good trade anyway. The problem is Cuban.

Marknanen would be a better investment than Kyrie.
Three way trades etc to get pick for DFS-Dinwiddie and package it with Mavs unprotected would be a good way to entice Jazz.

Resigning Powell is not important. F'in vet min. Who cares? Kleber cost sth but it is not a big investment. Giving away unprotected first and max contract to Kyrie is a huge investment.

*Kyrie trade is like buying a used Porsche 911 with 120k miles on it.
- Not a good investment. You could've bought a Lexus SUV for frontcourt.
*Kyrie max extension is the huge operating cost of that Porsche.
- The car had 7 owners and everyone was happy to sell it.
*Powell vet min is like buying a cheap bicycle.
- You can throw (release) the bicycle without much remorse.
*Kleber deal is like maintenance of your old F-150 truck.
- If healthy Kleber can help the team including the playoffs. You can probably sell it (trade it without giving up much assets)

[Archx]

This guy

[algope]

Is Kyrie going to play again this year?

[41Dirk41]

Without Brunson replacement Mavs were 4th seed, and as Kyrie arrived we dropped to 11th seed.
Mavs missed Brunson and it was a big mistake to let him go.
Bigger mistake to invest MAX in Kyrie did not fix the thing but make things worse. We f'in traded unprotected picks and bargain contracts who had some value around the league.

In recent years, Denver found that Aaron Gordon trade, Portland made Grant trade without giving too much. There should be better trades available for Mavs.

Markaneen and Ayton were easy and cheap trade.
But they prefer to resign Powell and Kleber.

But it's not related to Irving, we can make good trade anyway. The problem is Cuban.

Marknanen would be a better investment than Kyrie.
Three way trades etc to get pick for DFS-Dinwiddie and package it with Mavs unprotected would be a good way to entice Jazz.

Resigning Powell is not important. F'in vet min. Who cares? Kleber cost sth but it is not a big investment. Giving away unprotected first and max contract to Kyrie is a huge investment.

*Kyrie trade is like buying a used Porsche 911 with 120k miles on it.
- Not a good investment. You could've bought a Lexus SUV for frontcourt.
*Kyrie max extension is the huge operating cost of that Porsche.
- The car had 7 owners and everyone was happy to sell it.
*Powell vet min is like buying a cheap bicycle.
- You can throw (release) the bicycle without much remorse.
*Kleber deal is like maintenance of your old F-150 truck.
- If healthy Kleber can help the team including the playoffs. You can probably sell it (trade it without giving up much assets)

Markaneen wanted to be here before the Jazz and his price was all time low, after the trade Jazz GM wouldn't even pick up the phone for that package... Lauri is a 25yo all star. Come on.
You don't know players value very well

And Powell is a big problem when the FO/coach/owner consider him the first guy behind your 19yo starting C... A huge problem if he injuries player too

Kleber is washed and always injuried.

14M of dead money and a big hole at PF/C, look at real issues of the team and not your dislikes.

[41Dirk41]

Is Kyrie going to play again this year?

Ask to Dwight Powell

[ozwizard8]

Markaneen and Ayton were easy and cheap trade.
But they prefer to resign Powell and Kleber.

But it's not related to Irving, we can make good trade anyway. The problem is Cuban.

Marknanen would be a better investment than Kyrie.
Three way trades etc to get pick for DFS-Dinwiddie and package it with Mavs unprotected would be a good way to entice Jazz.

Resigning Powell is not important. F'in vet min. Who cares? Kleber cost sth but it is not a big investment. Giving away unprotected first and max contract to Kyrie is a huge investment.

*Kyrie trade is like buying a used Porsche 911 with 120k miles on it.
- Not a good investment. You could've bought a Lexus SUV for frontcourt.
*Kyrie max extension is the huge operating cost of that Porsche.
- The car had 7 owners and everyone was happy to sell it.
*Powell vet min is like buying a cheap bicycle.
- You can throw (release) the bicycle without much remorse.
*Kleber deal is like maintenance of your old F-150 truck.
- If healthy Kleber can help the team including the playoffs. You can probably sell it (trade it without giving up much assets)

Markaneen wanted to be here before the Jazz and his price was all time low, after the trade Jazz GM wouldn't even pick up the phone for that package... Lauri is a 25yo all star. Come on.
You don't know players value very well

And Powell is a big problem when the FO/coach/owner consider him the first guy behind your 19yo starting C... A huge problem if he injuries player too

Kleber is washed and always injuried.

14M of dead money and a big hole at PF/C, look at real issues of the team and not your dislikes.

Dude do not try to move the goalpost or objectives here. You told Marknanen as an option. I never brought up Marknanen as an option. This is your idea to bring it here. So go mock yourself in front of the mirror.

We are talking about how much Mavs invested in Kyrie instead of other options. Kyrie package alone may not bring Marknanen, but it might be used with some other picks, taking salary back etc, to get Marknanen or some other frontcourt player. Aaron Gordon, Jerami Grant traded for feasible packages for Mavs but we did not go for that route and opted for Kyrie bomb.

Powell is playing for a vet. min. Its so easy to cut him so stop the BS. The reason he is getting minutes is we invested in backcourt Kyrie instead of a big man.

Kleber is costing 1/3 of Kyrie. I dont remember Mavs sending DFS-Dinwiddie-unprotected picks for Kleber this summer. Extension was not a good one but it still costed Mavs significantly less than Kyrie.

HUGE INVESTMENT in Kyrie is a disaster for Mavs. ($60m for Kyrie+THJ backcourt while playing $20m players for frontcourt is bonkers)
Investing Kyrie is like investing in an expensive used Porsche.
+ Porsche looks good but is not a first choice for a long road, winter time, going for family trips.
- Kyrie looks good on the court but not bringing wins, does not help team to win even against a losing Memphis team.
+ Old Porsche spends too much time on workshop.
- Old Kyrie is also absent when he is needed. (He did not played half of the games in last 5 years due to physical and mental injuries).

Mavs should've purchased a new LEXUS SUV (frontcourt) rather than an old Porsche to this roster.