RS 23/24 - Mavs vs Pelicans (Sat. 830PMEST)

[joesha1698]

Again Holmes isn't going to play and Kidd isn't going anywhere this year unless something catastrophic happens no matter what we think, but this ask the players nonsense has to stop. You absolutely have to find a way to motivate players for these games where the opponents are short handed

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This guy sucks so much. He should be fired on that statement alone.

I think when he said, I'm just the coach, it was more of a shot at the front office. He said tired bodies and we're small. To a great degree, Jason Kidd is right. We can blame him all we want but we need to more size. When your under size, it wears on you and its the biggest issue.

Rebounds =- 44>34 - Pels (5 more offensive rebounds)
Blocks 4>1 Pels
Points n Paint 50>40 - Pels
Freesthrows attemmpts - 37>20 (Pels hit 29 fts and mavs shot 20fts total and hit 19)
Total fouls was 25 to 20 (Mavs had 25)

It came down to rebounding / defending the paint and more perimeter defense. I would look to improve perimeter defense by getting rid of the Josh Green and bringing in a backup center (legit one) and adding some perimeter defense. I would also look to add another starting PF. We need someone who is really gonna get after the other team's best guard. How Josh Green goes from hawking Brunson the whole game and the next game he's no where to be found?

[Mavrelous]

I think when he said, I'm just the coach, it was more of a shot at the front office. He said tired bodies and we're small. To a great degree, Jason Kidd is right. We can blame him all we want but we need to more size. When your under size, it wears on you and its the biggest issue.

Rebounds =- 44>34 - Pels (5 more offensive rebounds)
Blocks 4>1 Pels
Points n Paint 50>40 - Pels
Freesthrows attemmpts - 37>20 (Pels hit 29 fts and mavs shot 20fts total and hit 19)
Total fouls was 25 to 20 (Mavs had 25)

It came down to rebounding / defending the paint and more perimeter defense. I would look to improve perimeter defense by getting rid of the Josh Green and bringing in a backup center (legit one) and adding some perimeter defense. I would also look to add another starting PF. We need someone who is really gonna get after the other team's best guard. How Josh Green goes from hawking Brunson the whole game and the next game he's no where to be found?

FO brought him a big, he doesn't play him, they had another big he asked for, and turned out a locker room cancer and had to waive him, it has nothing to do with FO, it's Kidd lacking any accountability.
Either call out the players or take responisibilty.

It makes no difference if you beat the Wolves and Knicks and then lose to Pelicans and Grizzlies B units at home.

[41Dirk41]

Not a surprising L, with this rotation we always need a monster game by Irving for win games.
Even against Pels bench.

Kidd is still a moron but i can't understand the journalists, when he makes these statements why doesn't anyone ask him why he lets G-Will or DJJ play at the C instead of Holmes?
At this point i don't think another C it's the solution because if he clashes with Kidd he will not play. Simply.
And a trade for Siakam would be even worse because he will play a lot of minutes at the C probably, i'm sick and tired of this small ball love.
NBA is changed. Kidd lives in 2000.
A new owners intervention needed. Thanks.

In this games we don't needed Kareem to win the game, even a limited Powell maked an impact (ok he can't still score without Doncic, he can't still protect the paint and he can't still really rebound but those Pels are very weak).
In the fourth quarter that midget Alvarado went to basket and scores 2 times against Powell and Big Val owned him. But it's normal, Powell is a third string C.

We are a 0,500 team after the 8-2 start... I think it's enough to kick Kidd ass. No more excuses.
Kidd is a bad coach and his career spokes very well.

[joesha1698]

Not a surprising L, with this rotation we always need a monster game by Irving for win games.
Even against Pels bench.

Kidd is still a moron but i can't understand the journalists, when he makes these statements why doesn't anyone ask him why he lets G-Will or DJJ play at the C instead of Holmes?
At this point i don't think another C it's the solution because if he clashes with Kidd he will not play. Simply.
And a trade for Siakam would be even worse because he will play a lot of minutes at the C probably, i'm sick and tired of this small ball love.
NBA is changed. Kidd lives in 2000.
A new owners intervention needed. Thanks.

In this games we don't needed Kareem to win the game, even a limited Powell maked an impact (ok he can't still score without Doncic, he can't still protect the paint and he can't still really rebound but those Pels are very weak).
In the fourth quarter that midget Alvarado went to basket and scores 2 times against Powell and Big Val owned him. But it's normal, Powell is a third string C.

We are a 0,500 team after the 8-2 start... I think it's enough to kick Kidd ass. No more excuses.
Kidd is a bad coach and his career spokes very well.

Hmm that's a good observation regarding the journalists asking Kidd about playing Holmes. Did Mark Cuban just pay off the journalists in Dallas? As for Kidd, I do not get why he doesn't play Holmes either. Because this is a Cuban ran organization ( like Jerry Jones ) I get the ( can't prove it ) feeling that the coaches are being interfered with. Is it possible that the front office is directing Kidd not to play certain guys to keep them healthy for trades?

I almost feel like Kidd's comments ( im just the coach) had a deeper meaning. I donno. But my gut tells me this is more than just Jason Kidd being clueless and Mark Cuban is notorious for being too involved.

I really would love to know the truth. We need a insider to spill the beans.

[Mavrelous]

Kidd is still a moron but i can't understand the journalists, when he makes these statements why doesn't anyone ask him why he lets G-Will or DJJ play at the C instead of Holmes?

No team is given such leeway with how they treat the press/fan base.
Warriors last year couldn't give a timetable for Wiggins return and it was huge news, none of the following injuries were given a timetable or any proximation:
Kyrie (10 + games missed)
Maxi (2 months missed)
Josh Green
Exum

Last year, Maxi partially tore his hamstring and we were given an estimation that was correct.

Last year meltdown reason was not discussed.
What happened with Javale McGee?
Why isn't Holmes playing? The team is getting killed with the small ball, he's not worse than Grant Williams at the 5, we're watching the games.

What has Jason Kidd in his career to warrant this level of immunity and respect from both FO and journalists? This is not Greg Popovitch who can yank journalists w/o regard, and he has the audacity to demand "positive ****" from MacMahon.

[Archx]

Interesting quote from Kidd after the game.

"I can't win with these cats. I'm just like everyone else, on the sidelines watching, thinking... I can't go out and dribble and rebound. Imagine i had guys like Alvarado, Hawkins, Marshall instead of Kyrie, Luka, Timmy, etc..."

[joesha1698]

Well, I just did some research on Kidd and I was surprised with some of the stuff that went on with the Bucks and some of his previous stops. For someone who played like a genius on the court and was all about team - his personality seems to affecting his decision making based on some of the things that have been reported by ex players.

When it's all said and done, Mark Cuban hired him because ( according to what I read) he's a loyalty guy and he's had a relationship with Kidd for a long time.

Its hard to look at one of the brightest minds the game has seen ( on the court ) and question their decision making but he has had constant personality issues throughout his tenure as a player ( that was kept quiet) and as a coach that was documented. I can't tell you how many smart guys that suck with people because of their personalities or their decision making is altered by their personalities. An example would be, let's say Jason Kidd can clearly see we need size but elects to play Powell over Holmes because he sees Powell as someone who always plays hard and puts in the extra work. Or maybe Kidd is vindictive and doesn't like players that question him and thus doesn't play them if he feels that way?

I donno. But based on his past and what I'm seeing now with the rotations and some of the players reactions - namely Josh Green and Grant Williams im sensing some psychological nervous behavior that may be affecting their play. Didn't josh green play one season under a previous coach, was he always a nervous wreck on the court?

I dunno. I loved Kidd as a player growing up. I hope I'm wrong but the rotations, not playing bigs, some of the stuff I read about his past ( basketball related) raises a lot of questions for me.

[Mavrelous]

Well, I just did some research on Kidd and I was surprised with some of the stuff that went on with the Bucks and some of his previous stops. For someone who played like a genius on the court and was all about team - his personality seems to affecting his decision making based on some of the things that have been reported by ex players.

When it's all said and done, Mark Cuban hired him because ( according to what I read) he's a loyalty guy and he's had a relationship with Kidd for a long time.

Its hard to look at one of the brightest minds the game has seen ( on the court ) and question their decision making but he has had constant personality issues throughout his tenure as a player ( that was kept quiet) and as a coach that was documented. I can't tell you how many smart guys that suck with people because of their personalities or their decision making is altered by their personalities. An example would be, let's say Jason Kidd can clearly see we need size but elects to play Powell over Holmes because he sees Powell as someone who always plays hard and puts in the extra work. Or maybe Kidd is vindictive and doesn't like players that question him and thus doesn't play them if he feels that way?

I donno. But based on his past and what I'm seeing now with the rotations and some of the players reactions - namely Josh Green and Grant Williams im sensing some psychological nervous behavior that may be affecting their play. Didn't josh green play one season under a previous coach, was he always a nervous wreck on the court?

I dunno. I loved Kidd as a player growing up. I hope I'm wrong but the rotations, not playing bigs, some of the stuff I read about his past ( basketball related) raises a lot of questions for me.

2 of the most brilliant basketball minds to play the game have proven to be major disappointments, and displaying some awful decision making, Nash and Kidd, I have Nash as even more surprising than Kidd.

[Mavrelous]

Interesting quote from Kidd after the game.

"I can't win with these cats. I'm just like everyone else, on the sidelines watching, thinking... I can't go out and dribble and rebound. Imagine i had guys like Alvarado, Hawkins, Marshall instead of Kyrie, Luka, Timmy, etc..."

I almost believed you

[joesha1698]

This video here shows Kidd as almost a savant. It made me laugh how hard he was coaching. I also watched an undisputed episode where Shannon Sharpe said Kidd learned from coaching too hard with the Bucks. I hope I'm wrong about Kidd and everything works out.

If this is how Kidd's mind worked as a player, no wonder he was so good. It's almost like he wanted to be on the court.


https://youtube.com/shorts/JU6swqbbhcI?si=3AKm4qHSk6QRZpC1

[Archx]

Interesting quote from Kidd after the game.

"I can't win with these cats. I'm just like everyone else, on the sidelines watching, thinking... I can't go out and dribble and rebound. Imagine i had guys like Alvarado, Hawkins, Marshall instead of Kyrie, Luka, Timmy, etc..."

I almost believed you

Listening him speak, that's the level we have fallen down to.

This video here shows Kidd as almost a savant. It made me laugh how hard he was coaching. I also watched an undisputed episode where Shannon Sharpe said Kidd learned from coaching too hard with the Bucks. I hope I'm wrong about Kidd and everything works out.

If this is how Kidd's mind worked as a player, no wonder he was so good. It's almost like he wanted to be on the court.

Serious question, when did you start watching Mavs? Kidd had 2 or 3 good games in playoffs and we all believed in him, then soon after reality kicked in. He's the same BS head coach every fanbase before warned us.

[daoneandonly]

Again Holmes isn't going to play and Kidd isn't going anywhere this year unless something catastrophic happens no matter what we think, but this ask the players nonsense has to stop. You absolutely have to find a way to motivate players for these games where the opponents are short handed

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Zero accountability, not a leader at all. Just a scum bag.

This loss is on 2 people, Jason Kidd and Josh Green. Losing to a team without its 3 best players, pathetic

[Mavrelous]

Interesting quote from Kidd after the game.

"I can't win with these cats. I'm just like everyone else, on the sidelines watching, thinking... I can't go out and dribble and rebound. Imagine i had guys like Alvarado, Hawkins, Marshall instead of Kyrie, Luka, Timmy, etc..."

I almost believed you

Listening him speak, that's the level we have fallen down to.

I hate the tone of his voice and you made me sit and listen to his entire press conference, you will pay for this...

[joesha1698]

Interesting quote from Kidd after the game.

"I can't win with these cats. I'm just like everyone else, on the sidelines watching, thinking... I can't go out and dribble and rebound. Imagine i had guys like Alvarado, Hawkins, Marshall instead of Kyrie, Luka, Timmy, etc..."

I almost believed you

Listening him speak, that's the level we have fallen down to.

This video here shows Kidd as almost a savant. It made me laugh how hard he was coaching. I also watched an undisputed episode where Shannon Sharpe said Kidd learned from coaching too hard with the Bucks. I hope I'm wrong about Kidd and everything works out.

If this is how Kidd's mind worked as a player, no wonder he was so good. It's almost like he wanted to be on the court.

Serious question, when did you start watching Mavs? Kidd had 2 or 3 good games in playoffs and we all believed in him, then soon after reality kicked in. He's the same BS head coach every fanbase before warned us.

I've been watching the Mavs since Steve Nash / Dirk era and probably a little before that. But i started watching as a full time fan last year..i.e. following all the games.

What Kidd did getting that team to the WCF was no easy feat. He over achieved, imo. I think it's hard to completely judge Kidd because of the constantly changing team.

He gets you to the WCFs and then you don't retain Jalen Brunson who is a no-sense hard working type guy. You also get rid of DoDo and Dinwinnie to obtain Kyrie, which is understandable, but now you lose defense.

I think the Mavs had an identity before they lost Jalen. You gotta give him some credit for that. They played hard, played defense, had good defensive rotations, and everyone played their role on offense.

Kidd has a new team that has an increase offensive capacity but they lost that sense of offensive and more importantly defensive identity. These are things they have to regain as a unit and it takes time. Jason kidd has a certain mindset that everyone is not going to agree with but has shown to be effective when he has the right personel...i.e. making the Western conference finals 2 years ago.

Injuries, dead weight, and obvious holes on this team and its simply hard to judge Kidd fairly. The team that got to the WCF was deconstructed the next year....what would happen to any team if you don't reclaim your 2nd best player after making it to the WCFs? Then you trade more pieces of that same team. It takes time to recalibrate

Kidd seems to like tough professional players who show up to play. I'm not sure why he doesn't play Holmes. I honestly believe he plays guys that he feels puts in the work or plays with that effort. That's my hunch.

But at the end of the day, the front office has been the biggest culprit of mismanaging situations..until they fill the holes on this roster - we cannot honestly fully judge his coaching ability. He overachieved 2 years ago and has been working with one hand tied behind his back since then.

We need to get healthy, get rid of dead weight (josh green) , and then fill out obvious holes at the 4, backup center, and perimeter defender/stopper...and judge him then.

[joesha1698]

Cliff notes version: Mark cuban screwed up the Jalen brunson thing. You let your 2nd best player leave after making the WCFs and you get no value back in return. Therefore, the next year ( Kyrie became available, which was basically good fortune) and Mark knew he had to take his shot because it's extremely hard to recruit top talent to Dallas. But doing so, we were gonna pay a calibration price to recover that identity and gain the proper personel to duplicate the success of 2022 and build on it.

I think we have taken some steps towards that but there is more work to do from a front office perspective. So, if we're being fair -- J Kidd has been coaching with 1 hand tied behind his back since those WCFs.

[41Dirk41]

Kidd is still a moron but i can't understand the journalists, when he makes these statements why doesn't anyone ask him why he lets G-Will or DJJ play at the C instead of Holmes?

No team is given such leeway with how they treat the press/fan base.
Warriors last year couldn't give a timetable for Wiggins return and it was huge news, none of the following injuries were given a timetable or any proximation:
Kyrie (10 + games missed)
Maxi (2 months missed)
Josh Green
Exum

Last year, Maxi partially tore his hamstring and we were given an estimation that was correct.

Last year meltdown reason was not discussed.
What happened with Javale McGee?
Why isn't Holmes playing? The team is getting killed with the small ball, he's not worse than Grant Williams at the 5, we're watching the games.

What has Jason Kidd in his career to warrant this level of immunity and respect from both FO and journalists? This is not Greg Popovitch who can yank journalists w/o regard, and he has the audacity to demand "positive ****" from MacMahon.

So the Press conference in USA are pretty useless ... However Kidd clashes with 3 Cs in last 2years and we ended up to play Powell 20+ minutes per game again.

This is a big big big problem but nobody in the FO seems to notice it. Good.

[Mavrelous]

Mavs outperformed in RS in 21/22, had an amazing run in 22 calendar year January to April, but under performed October to December, he managed to squeeze 6th defense from a very flawed roster lacking rim protection and rebounding, and they missed the opportunity to get the 3rd seed with losses to Wizards and Hornets, a pattern with Kidd coached Mavs that keeps repeating itself much much more than other good teams.
In the PO they outperformed by going 2-1 on Utah w/o Luka, but it was out of the world performance by Maxi Kleber and Brunson, people focus on Brunson in that series, but what Maxi did was amazing and even better.
His most impressive feat was beating the Suns, dominating them in game 7 with suffocating defense that exploited every weakness they had, he destroyed 2 times COY Monte Williams, by blitzing his main scoring, overloading his PG by targeting him in every P&R and overworking him and took advantage of his mentally weak center.
He was out coached against the Warriros, but no one bothered because the team wasn't supposed to be there, and it was clear Mavs wings were done, both Bullock and DFS logged 40 MPG for 13 games in 1st and 2nd round and were clearly done, another pattern of Kidd of overplaying his favourites, not uncommon with NBA coaches.
Since then, I hardly remember any notable performance from him, and he never ever impressed in late game situations, to the contrary, both game 4 and game 6 in Utah, Mavs had meltdowns, it lost them the game in game 4, and were one wide open 3 away from losing in game 6, his prevent offense is pathetic and has lost the team games or made blow out games close, he broadcasts panic and rarely able to reign in Luka.
His offense is ultra basic, no side actions at all, simple isos, which worked with 22 team who had 3 amazing iso players, defensively, he excels on schemes defending normal P&R based offense, throw him a curve ball with off ball screens and cuts and he's lost.
He also displayed clear disdain of utilizing players he doesn't approve of, Bertans, Wood and Homes this year, none of these players are good players, but neither were the players he were playing, and you're better off using the tools you have than pout about lacking the tools.
It's clear he's not the very sharp or very social person, and it shows in his post game pressers.

He's not a good coach, he shouldn't be coaching an MVP calibre player, there are bad coaches who are great PR guys and ego managers (Doc Rivers), Amazing X&O who have questionable personalities (Nick Nurse), you can't be bad at both things.

[Archx]

I hate the tone of his voice and you made me sit and listen to his entire press conference, you will pay for this...

I can't believe you did it haha. Genuinely laughing here.

What Kidd did getting that team to the WCF was no easy feat. He over achieved, imo. I think it's hard to completely judge Kidd because of the constantly changing team.

Mavs went to the WCF in spite of Kidd not because of him. Luka carried huge load with a help from Brunson this time and Dinwiddie.
DFS/Bullock played great defense until GSW matchup when Bullock screwed up game 2 or 3 i can't remember when he went 0/8 from 3, basically all open shots. Kidd was over his head and Kerr ran circles around him entire series.

The only good thing Kidd did was to double Booker (which everyone knew Booker didn't like) and put pressure on Paul by making Luka, Spencer and Jalen attack him any chance they got.

Game 7 Luka destroyed the Suns basically by himself in the 1st half already.

Kidd deserved some credit but lets not pretend it was his offense that got Mavs to WCF, it was Kokoskov system that he already used when Slovenia won Eurocup. I'll give him credit for defense though, which was solid to a certain point, still his managing player minutes, taking timeouts, etc... was still incredibly suspect.

Compare how Rick was able to squeeze out everything from role players to Kidd and you'll quickly notice a huge difference. Great coaches know how to do things right when stars are injuried or simply are overmatched by the opponent, the only thing we constantly hear from Kidd are excuses when he blames his players. I'm shocked locker room hasn't turned on him yet after all this time with his BS arguments.

This is a great article how that season went down. You'll notice Kidd had a ton of help from coaching staff.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/doylerader/2022/06/05/dallas-mavericks-assistant-coach-igor-kokoskov-expected-to-join-brooklyn-nets/

[41Dirk41]

Agree.

Carlisle is done (at least with the Mavs) but he was a great coach, Kidd is just a bad coach.

[Mavrelous]

Kokoskov is wasting in the Hawks dumpster fire, bring him in...