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Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million)

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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#241 » by Madvillainy2004 » Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:49 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:…isn’t this playing the Dodgers, not the Jays? They might have used the Jays to up the value but the goal was to get the Dodgers to offer more, and boy did they. The whole scam was setup to oceans 11 the Dodgers.


I mean it played us into actually thinking he was gonna sign here. I assume someone in his camp was leaking stuff, Rosenthal said he has a great source saying he was coming here but he couldn't get CAA to confirm it. Sucks more for the Dodgers cause if they stuck to their guns Ohtani would've signed there anyways he made the Jays seem as close to signing him as possible to squeeze that extra 100 million.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#242 » by Cyrus » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:00 pm

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Some of this doesn't make sense if dodgers thought othani was on his way to blue Jays on that flight, his agent would be on the flight. They made their final offer while he was supposedly on flight to Toronto. Guess the agent said turn the plane around, we are going back to LA. While I believe dodgers didn't know what exactly was going on, they reached all othani people to make the final offer?

Also your saying if we had top 5 farm system we'd have othani? Guess should have kept Monroe or traded him for high end prospects


Lolll our farm system doesn't matter. We weren't offering 700 million, he was never coming here anyways he just used the Jays to scare the Dodgers into upping there's last minute.


I'm pretty sure the money was comparable, I wouldn't even be surprised if we had the highest offer. Typically anyone who has even entertained signing here its because we had the most cash offered.

But we can't compete against geography and well dodgers have made the playoffs 11 years straight, and actually won rounds (and a championship), we are still looking for our first round win with this group. Hell our first playoff victory with this group.

Can't compete against dodgers with that.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#243 » by dagger » Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:27 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:…isn’t this playing the Dodgers, not the Jays? They might have used the Jays to up the value but the goal was to get the Dodgers to offer more, and boy did they. The whole scam was setup to oceans 11 the Dodgers.


I mean it played us into actually thinking he was gonna sign here. I assume someone in his camp was leaking stuff, Rosenthal said he has a great source saying he was coming here but he couldn't get CAA to confirm it. Sucks more for the Dodgers cause if they stuck to their guns Ohtani would've signed there anyways he made the Jays seem as close to signing him as possible to squeeze that extra 100 million.


Darren Rovell believes there is no way for the Dodgers make a profit on Ohtani even if they win multiple championships, because the team's local TV deal is sealed, so are most in-stadium revenue projections going forward which were already pretty much maxxed out, higher revenue sharing payments are triggered, and the Dodgers get an equal share – but no more – of almost all other MLB streams including merchandise, etc.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#244 » by Randle McMurphy » Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:04 pm

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Interesting. The fact that this "Zipman" character's only other tweet in a 10 year period was to the Law Society of Ontario (and that he deleted it once others started to try to put pieces together), it's a distinct possibility that whoever it was is a lawyer/agent at CAA.

Honestly, if they set up the Dodgers/Jays like this by putting out a fake flight through a burner account, it was a genius ploy. Probably earned their agency millions more in getting the Dodgers to up the ante.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#245 » by s e n s i » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:14 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
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Interesting. The fact that this "Zipman" character's only other tweet in a 10 year period was to the Law Society of Ontario (and that he deleted it once others started to try to put pieces together), it's a distinct possibility that whoever it was is a lawyer/agent at CAA.

Honestly, if they set up the Dodgers/Jays like this by putting out a fake flight through a burner account, it was a genius ploy. Probably earned their agency millions more in getting the Dodgers to up the ante.


and the dodgers relationship with CAA is permanently severed and irreparable as a result. weird for the dodgers to have to look at ohtani in the eye knowing his agency just conned them for however many extra millions.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#246 » by WuTang_OG » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:40 pm

s e n s i wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg
Read on Twitter

Interesting. The fact that this "Zipman" character's only other tweet in a 10 year period was to the Law Society of Ontario (and that he deleted it once others started to try to put pieces together), it's a distinct possibility that whoever it was is a lawyer/agent at CAA.

Honestly, if they set up the Dodgers/Jays like this by putting out a fake flight through a burner account, it was a genius ploy. Probably earned their agency millions more in getting the Dodgers to up the ante.


and the dodgers relationship with CAA is permanently severed and irreparable as a result. weird for the dodgers to have to look at ohtani in the eye knowing his agency just conned them for however many extra millions.


Meh dont think it matters much. Dodgers got their guy and gave a far and above last offer to seal it. Jays got used. It is what it is. Ross has a lot of work to do now
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#247 » by Hero_Panda » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:42 pm

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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#248 » by polo007 » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:52 pm

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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#249 » by polo007 » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:55 pm

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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#250 » by Hero_Panda » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:19 pm

You know what would be great? If journalists actually had solid proof or only take info from credible sources before they report anything, rather than taking an anonymous tweet as a source and sharing it as "BREAKING NEWS". How hard is it to find out the original tweet reporting that Ohtani is on a plane to Toronto was a burner account based on the lack of activity in the account's history?

If all these journalists do is scour the twitter-space for news, well then they're not actual journalists.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread 

Post#251 » by Green Hornet » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:28 pm

JaysRule15 wrote:
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Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.


I’m calling it now, Soto will probably resign with the Yankees. No big time free agent is coming here, unless they're well late into their prime like Frank Thomas or Clemons who eventually asked to be traded, LOL. The quicker you accept this, the more you’ll understand that like the Raps, the BJs will always get their best talent through trades or through the homegrown route via draft only.

The BJs are in a huge pickle now, much like with the Raps 3 years ago. The Roster is just limited and there's not much you can do when you can't sign big time free agents and good pitching can only get you so far. I don't trust the FO being able to make any great trades either, especially after what happened with Moreno. Plus, the farm system is stretching thin as well. I think the FO will have to eventually call this experiment as a failure and do a proper rebuild. The league is getting more and more stacked by the day, especially now with the Yankees and Dodgers added back into the mix. Unfortunately, I just don't see how the Jays can compete in this type of environment.


The Blue Jays definitely haven't had a problem attracting premier free agents like the Raptors have. Yes they missed out on Ohtani, but so did a bunch of other teams.

Just recently with this front office, we've signed Springer, Ryu, Gausman. Those were all top free agents in their class that offseason. We've also been able to pay to keep Berrios just after trading for him.

There's no salary cap in baseball. So teams that are able to spend the money are always going to be destinations for free agents. Even this offseason, should the Blue Jays want, they can absolutely make a play for other top free agents like Bellinger. We've consistently had a top 10 payroll in recent years.


Other than Gausman, all of those free agent signings didn’t really work out. They have either became inundated with injuries or became a former shell of themselves.

Springer is not remotely close to the same player he was for the Astros. Same with Ryu - riddled with injuries and eventually became a non factor. Berrios was acquired by trade so he doesn’t count.

Gausman is the only one that did work out which is rare and recent, but he’s turning 33 so who knows how much gas is left in his tank for him to put up good numbers.

The fact still remains - no true premiere players are going to sign here as free agents, especially positional players. Bellinger is a huge unknown right now and isn’t an established elite player, therefore he doesn’t fit the mold of a game changer. There is a reason why many teams aren’t exactly jumping the gun to sign him and still see him as a big risk/gamble.

Other big market teams can also get into a bidding war as well and they usually get their big prize one way or another, unlike the Jays. I agree that the Jays have been big spenders recently, but the players they’ve signed aren’t really moving the needle very much, and the results speak for themselves. Like the NBA, the MLB is still a superstars’ league and at the end of the day, the Jays isn’t going to attract any true superstar free agent.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#252 » by Parataxis » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:34 pm

rarefind wrote:There are no ethics in sports or big business.

While you can't make someone sign with you who never intended to, we now have two black eyes. One from the WC series and now this debacle. Rational thought doesn't blame a front office after this but we got played... badly. That certainly is not something to write home about.

At least we have some nice renos but too bad most people won't be able to justify the ticket cost to watch a mid baseball team. I'm worried as we are now in desperation mode and I feel like we are going to do something really dumb now to sell some tickets. Good thing we have Ross Atkins at the helm.


I really don't understand how the Jays have a 'black eye' from this. We didn't sign Ohtani - but neither did 28 other teams. And being used 'as leverage' didn't cost us anything. We're no worse off now than we would have been had Friday never happened, and Ohtani signed with the Dodgers for 600MM instead.

It's a nothingburger.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread 

Post#253 » by Madvillainy2004 » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:40 pm

Green Hornet wrote:
JaysRule15 wrote:
Green Hornet wrote:
I’m calling it now, Soto will probably resign with the Yankees. No big time free agent is coming here, unless they're well late into their prime like Frank Thomas or Clemons who eventually asked to be traded, LOL. The quicker you accept this, the more you’ll understand that like the Raps, the BJs will always get their best talent through trades or through the homegrown route via draft only.

The BJs are in a huge pickle now, much like with the Raps 3 years ago. The Roster is just limited and there's not much you can do when you can't sign big time free agents and good pitching can only get you so far. I don't trust the FO being able to make any great trades either, especially after what happened with Moreno. Plus, the farm system is stretching thin as well. I think the FO will have to eventually call this experiment as a failure and do a proper rebuild. The league is getting more and more stacked by the day, especially now with the Yankees and Dodgers added back into the mix. Unfortunately, I just don't see how the Jays can compete in this type of environment.


The Blue Jays definitely haven't had a problem attracting premier free agents like the Raptors have. Yes they missed out on Ohtani, but so did a bunch of other teams.

Just recently with this front office, we've signed Springer, Ryu, Gausman. Those were all top free agents in their class that offseason. We've also been able to pay to keep Berrios just after trading for him.

There's no salary cap in baseball. So teams that are able to spend the money are always going to be destinations for free agents. Even this offseason, should the Blue Jays want, they can absolutely make a play for other top free agents like Bellinger. We've consistently had a top 10 payroll in recent years.


Other than Gausman, all of those free agent signings didn’t really work out. They have either became inundated with injuries or became a former shell of themselves.

Springer is not remotely close to the same player he was for the Astros. Same with Ryu - riddled with injuries and eventually became a non factor. Berrios was acquired by trade so he doesn’t count.

Gausman is the only one that did work out which is rare and recent, but he’s turning 33 so who knows how much gas is left in his tank for him to put up good numbers.

The fact still remains - no true premiere players are going to sign here as free agents, especially positional players. Bellinger is a huge unknown right now and isn’t an established elite player, therefore he doesn’t fit the mold of a game changer. There is a reason why many teams aren’t exactly jumping the gun to sign him and still see him as a big risk/gamble.

Other big market teams can also get into a bidding war as well and they usually get their big prize one way or another, unlike the Jays. I agree that the Jays have been big spenders recently, but the players they’ve signed aren’t really moving the needle very much, and the results speak for themselves. Like the NBA, the MLB is still a superstars’ league and at the end of the day, the Jays isn’t going to attract any true superstar free agent.


The MLB isn't a superstar league at all lol the Dbacks made the WS and beat the Dodgers. Atlanta had one of the best regular seasons offenses ever and a lineup stacked with all stars (and the MVP) and lost to Philly. The reality of baseball is you need a good team that can consistently make the playoffs, where in that seeding doesn't matter a whole lot.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#254 » by Fairview4Life » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:56 pm

I also don’t really understand how free agents not working out is a counter argument to the fact they were signed in the first place.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread 

Post#255 » by s e n s i » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:58 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:The MLB isn't a superstar league at all lol the Dbacks made the WS and beat the Dodgers.


uh you must not have heard of the superstar with "ice in his veins" that "carried the dbacks to the world series"; one gabriel moreno lol
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread 

Post#256 » by Green Hornet » Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:01 pm

Madvillainy2004 wrote:The MLB isn't a superstar league at all lol the Dbacks made the WS and beat the Dodgers. Atlanta had one of the best regular seasons offenses ever and a lineup stacked with all stars (and the MVP) and lost to Philly. The reality of baseball is you need a good team that can consistently make the playoffs, where in that seeding doesn't matter a whole lot.


Look at my original post and look at the past WS winners. Almost every team that won the WS had either a lineup full of stars who could mash or had a true superstar to carry their team. The Diamondbacks was an exception no doubt, but they ultimately came up short and the Rangers who won most recently, just simply dominated their way through because they have a team full of dangerous bats and a superstar in Seager who posted a batting average of . 286 with 6 hits, 3 home runs, 6 RBIs and 6 runs scored in 5 games in the 2023 World Series, including that crazy comeback in game 1.

This notion that a team just needs to get into the playoffs and they'll have a fair chance of winning the WS needs to go because the data indicates otherwise. Other than the 2015 Kansas Royals, most of the teams that go on to win the WS have at least one true superstar, or an emerging superstar on their team. I'm not making any of this stuff up, just go look at the data for yourself.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#257 » by Fairview4Life » Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:19 pm

If the blue jays would have won the World Series this year, it would have been fairly trivial to pick out the superstar players in our lineup too. Every team has a few.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#258 » by rarefind » Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:38 am

Parataxis wrote:
rarefind wrote:There are no ethics in sports or big business.

While you can't make someone sign with you who never intended to, we now have two black eyes. One from the WC series and now this debacle. Rational thought doesn't blame a front office after this but we got played... badly. That certainly is not something to write home about.

At least we have some nice renos but too bad most people won't be able to justify the ticket cost to watch a mid baseball team. I'm worried as we are now in desperation mode and I feel like we are going to do something really dumb now to sell some tickets. Good thing we have Ross Atkins at the helm.


I really don't understand how the Jays have a 'black eye' from this. We didn't sign Ohtani - but neither did 28 other teams. And being used 'as leverage' didn't cost us anything. We're no worse off now than we would have been had Friday never happened, and Ohtani signed with the Dodgers for 600MM instead.

It's a nothingburger.


No, it isn't a nothing burger. You are coming at this from the perspective of our front office and ownership and I understand that. Share your sentiment with the average fan and they will disagree. These are the same fans is who buy tickets and watch games on television. The same fans who watched this team's season sputter to a stop a few short months ago. I believe that CAA and Ohtani pulled one over on the Dodgers but most Blue Jays fans who don't pay much attention see this as yet another disappointment with this organization whether fair or not. So again, this is not a nothing burger.

The Jays had no control over what Shohei Ohtani ultimately decided but perception is reality. If you think our front office has instilled any degree of confidence in their ability to run this organization through this process then I don't know what to say. That being said, it isn't like much changed prior to this whole charade.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#259 » by rapstarter » Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:41 am

Been reading replies to Shi Davidi's tweets after his holier-than-thou column after the fact, and now I feel better.
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Re: Official Shohei Ohtani Thread (Update: Ohtani signs with Dodgers 10 years, $700 million) 

Post#260 » by C Court » Mon Dec 11, 2023 2:51 am

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