Is It Time to Trade Klay?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

This team is quite literally much much better without Klay over a 3 year sample. This isn't based on opinions but a long stretch of basketball. Sure if Klay plays 15MPG and we ride it out on when he's hot if he plays better, than yeah he'd be a great substitute for this team. For the role he should have had since 2022 season, it will take Kerr until 2026 to finally give it to him.

If you think Klay is a negative you let Klay walk. When no other team wants Klay he is forced into retiremend. That is how 2/3rds. Of players end their career.

If Qunones, Payton, Podz, Santos, Moody,and even Robinon are better than Klay then goodbye Klay nice to know you.

Other teans shoukd know better than we at this realgm board whether Klay is washed up to the point that he is not an NBA player.
You think Klay is worse than I think Klay is. Fine.

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was a home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

[vvoland]

If you think Klay is a negative you let Klay walk. When no other team wants Klay he is forced into retiremend. That is how 2/3rds. Of players end their career.

If Qunones, Payton, Podz, Santos, Moody,and even Robinon are better than Klay then goodbye Klay nice to know you.

Other teans shoukd know better than we at this realgm board whether Klay is washed up to the point that he is not an NBA player.
You think Klay is worse than I think Klay is. Fine.

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was him home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

I also found it odd that the same people clamoring for Klay to be traded seem perfectly fine w/ dray missing half the season or wiggs not showing up for the first 40 or so games. CDM and I were debating why the team's defense became league worse and he was (is?) convinced it's due to Klay's off ball space cadet-ism. I was pretty sure it was because our DPOY missed half the season and, to a lesser extent, because wigs went from our best wing defender to the worst player on the roster for the first few months.

Now that dray is back, wigs looks like he cares, klay is still playing 25-30 mins yet our defense is top 5 again. I wonder if it really was Klay that was killing the d?

It's also pretty clear that having Dray in the lineup brings up the level of play and effort of the people around him. It's particularly noticeable w/ Wigs intensity and Dray's defensive communication (putting people in the right position).

[floppymoose]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

[michaelm]

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was him home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

I also found it odd that the same people clamoring for Klay to be traded seem perfectly fine w/ dray missing half the season or wiggs not showing up for the first 40 or so games. CDM and I were debating why the team's defense became league worse and he was (is?) convinced it's due to Klay's off ball space cadet-ism. I was pretty sure it was because our DPOY missed half the season and, to a lesser extent, because wigs went from our best wing defender to the worst player on the roster for the first few months.

Now that dray is back, wigs looks like he cares, klay is still playing 25-30 mins yet our defense is top 5 again. I wonder if it really was Klay that was killing the d?

It's also pretty clear that having Dray in the lineup brings up the level of play and effort of the people around him. It's particularly noticeable w/ Wigs intensity and Dray's defensive communication (putting people in the right position).

A lot of people wanted to trade Green and Wiggins as well, but both have at least temporarily returned to playing at near their peak level. If Klay showed signs of playing at near his peak level of course there wouldn’t be and shouldn’t be any problem.

Of course it is not Klay’s fault he is old and injured, particularly since he had been an Ironman before the 2019 finals and his injury problems started in the service of GSW in those finals rupturing his ACL playing on an injured hamstring trying to win a title for GSW which he was making a rather good attempt at doing. He was still pretty good in the play-offs in 2022 as I recall after his return, and the starting lineup which included him had stellar numbers last season.

The problem is particularly his defence. He can’t fill his old role of defending the best opposition guard, and he can’t defend SFs, so it is difficult to play him next to Curry because of Curry’s own defensive limitations, and similarly with CP3 at his age, and I don’t see how starting all 3 together can possibly work. Kerr has however repeatedly chosen to play a 3 guard lineup which indeed is on him. Klay also seems to be trying to do more dribbling and playmaking which were never his forte at his peak to compensate for what he las lost.

[B-King]

Great to see Klay in a better frame of mind and taking good shots. The last two years have been very erratic for the Klay we have known and love. The beef with Booker and NBA 2K were just absurd.

Last nights version of Klay plays a big part in the Dubs success moving forward. Great looks overall and no desperate off balance heaves at the rim.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was him home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

I also found it odd that the same people clamoring for Klay to be traded seem perfectly fine w/ dray missing half the season or wiggs not showing up for the first 40 or so games. CDM and I were debating why the team's defense became league worse and he was (is?) convinced it's due to Klay's off ball space cadet-ism. I was pretty sure it was because our DPOY missed half the season and, to a lesser extent, because wigs went from our best wing defender to the worst player on the roster for the first few months.

Now that dray is back, wigs looks like he cares, klay is still playing 25-30 mins yet our defense is top 5 again. I wonder if it really was Klay that was killing the d?

It's also pretty clear that having Dray in the lineup brings up the level of play and effort of the people around him. It's particularly noticeable w/ Wigs intensity and Dray's defensive communication (putting people in the right position).

Has Klay’s defense improved since November. Some games I only had a box score.some games I watched. Nobody ever misses on the 9 minute game highlight videos.

What I have actually seen of Klay’s defense did not look so horrible. Klay occasionally makes good defensive plays.

Warriors starting 5 often seened to not get their leggs until they are 5 minutes into the game and down 10 points. That was true for Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Looney and sometimes for Dray to. It is hard to play good team defense when a couple guys are playing like road cones.

Wiggins, Looney and Klay were not playing like the guys that played in the 2022 finals. Curry was not playing like finals Curry for the 1st 5 minutes of games and then Curry would start playing right after the 1st 5 minutes.

Chris Paul and Podz being the plus minus leaders is partly because the starters played so poorly in the 1st 5 minutes of games in November through mid January.

Klay was a big part of the problem but Curry, Looney and Wiggins playing like crap on defense with Klay made Klay look worse.

Wiggins is look good on defense lately and that is mostly Wiggins playing like Wiggins and not because Draymond is back. Wiggins sucked was bad while playing with Draymond in November.

In 2022 all the media Pundits thought the Celtics would roll over the Warriors but cause the Celtics had faster longer individual players. Warriors beat the Celtics with better team offense and better team defense. Warriors played as a team and played smarter. Celtics played a great individual athletes but they did not play much better than average team ball. You can still play great individual defense when a few of your teamates are not playing right but great team defense requires 5 guys to play well.

Wiggins seems to be playing right now. Looney plays bad every other game but we solved that by playing Draymond at center which also allows Kuminga to start.

I know Klay tends to shoot better later in the season and Klay can play smarter defense when his teammates play righ but Klay’s stiff legs probably are not fixable. Saric’s stiff legs are not fixable. Kerr talked about hiding Klay’s imobility by having Klay defend power forwards. I don’t know if Klay is strong enough to defend power forwards but I do think Klay is as fast as power forwards.

I hope Klay defending power forwards works. I hope Kuminga defending off guards works so we can leave Wiggins at small forward. Draymond can use his faster than center quickness to provide hekp defense but having to defend centers might eventually wear Draymond down.

I think the team is playing harder on defense now. Your teamate playing hard probably inspires tou to play hard. Santos plays the hardest.

I think people wanting Moody to play is the main reason for the anti-Klay movement on our board.

[Impuniti]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

It's very evident that Klay stans on here care more about feelings and emotions rather than cold hard data. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing things that quite literally go against facts.

[michaelm]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

It's very evident that Klay stans on here care more about feelings and emotions rather than cold hard data. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing things that quite literally go against facts.

Every fan of the GSW dynasty is a fan of peak Klay. Age and injury seem to pretty much preclude him from being that guy now, and he simply can’t play his old role anymore, which was taking the best guard defensively which covered for Curry who is small and gave GSW an advantage because Klay is taller than most guards. They imo simply can’t be elite defensively with him playing starter minutes and next to Curry, and all of their success has involved being elite defensively. He can’t do all that he once did offensively either; in his heyday shot selection didn’t matter because he was the second best shooter of all time and made ridiculous shots quite frequently. I don’t want to trade him, just playi him to his current strengths and obviously play him heavier minutes if he is hot. If he shows any signs of being the old Klay of course he can immediately return to being a starter playing heavy minutes as Wiggins did, and Kerr will prove himself a genius once again for coaching him back to that status and many on here including me will be proved wrong.

With Moody it is mainly because when they were losing in the play-offs last year he had stellar numbers including his 3 point percentage in the minutes he did play despite his limited playing time in the regular season, but Kerr wouldn’t play him more minutes. Maybe he isn’t up to being a starter but he hasn’t had much of a chance to show what he has, and there is probably more chance of him being becoming a satisfactory starter than there is of Klay returning to his peak level. Playing 2 way guys and other end of the bench guys last season was hard to understand if GSW do have any plan for Moody, and it would seem if Kerr’s attitude is set in stone that trading him would be in his best interests.

[Impuniti]

If you think Klay is a negative you let Klay walk. When no other team wants Klay he is forced into retiremend. That is how 2/3rds. Of players end their career.

If Qunones, Payton, Podz, Santos, Moody,and even Robinon are better than Klay then goodbye Klay nice to know you.

Other teans shoukd know better than we at this realgm board whether Klay is washed up to the point that he is not an NBA player.
You think Klay is worse than I think Klay is. Fine.

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was a home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

No there is data that shows that I am right, this isn't a subjective feeling. This team is better without Klay in the manner which he is used. This team has a significantly better record without Klay in the last 3 seasons.

Kerr is quite clearly a **** dumbass this season, and the record indicates that. This team should have a much better record than they do, but he has spent the entire season catering to the old men as well as his spastic 3 to 4 man guard lineup that tanks the team at the end of games, which coincidentally they keep losing a lot of this season (a historically clutch team). This is the same coach that at OT put out four guards and Draymond vs the Hawks, where they got out-rebounded 8 to 1, and lost the game. I find absolutely hysterical when someone doesn't have an argument and pulls this BS argument well are you going to go against the coach, the GM, etc etc? Yes, that's literally the point of this forum. It doesn't mean I'm right, but the point is to question things when they go awry.

Kerr having what it takes to bench players has to be one of the most laughable statements I have ever read on here. They were 12th in the league with over HALF OF THE SEASON done, with the highest wage bill in the league when he finally started changing. Outside of Pop or Spo, every coach in the league would been fired long ago for doing quite literally the complete opposite of what you're saying. Kerr's disgusting nepotism and favoritism to the vets has taken a level that I rarely see in sports, outside of just basketball. Wiggins was quite arguably the worst player in the league for the first 45 days, Klay was also atrocious. Loon even now I'm not sure if he's played better than 50 centers in the league this season. Stating that Kerr after **** up this much and being this far down to missing the playoffs is making changes as evidence that he has what it takes is laughable. During one of his many moronic "keep the core and lose the game" over merit moments this season, the journos on +/- said that Lacob went to the interview section afterwards to listen to his excuse on why he benched Kuminga. The same coach that stated the garbage that "guys will play on merit" before the season started and quite literally not only did the opposite but stuck to his guns until the entire Chase house was burned to the ground. You better believe he's gotten even more pressure to cut that nonsense out from the guys upstairs.

As for Moody, I don't know how good Moody would be. Theoretically I think he can work, but we never got to see it. That's my actual issue, we don't get to see real changes on that end because Kerr has to be a therapist to Klay. Had he gotten even 5-6 game run with 25MPG to start and close, it'd be interesting to see the end results. As for asking how Klay is being babied, that in itself is a wild statement. You don't see the absurd large sum of games where he plays like crap and closes out games.. just because? Where we see someone playing solid or great, which is still better than Klay and they head to the bench for his ego? You don't think it's not completely **** asinine that a player that missed 2 1/2 years of basketball can come back and immediately start on the best team in the league, be the worst player in the entire league for 2 months and have absolute impunity not just to his shooting, but effort, defense, mental strength, paying attention, etc etc? That we constantly throughout 3 years watch guys get benched and then seconds later see Klay do the exact same mistakes with total impunity.

And nobody is babying Moody. If he Moody isn't good enough when he plays, the only thing he deserves is the bench or get some water for the boys. Klay on the other hand has been playing far more than he has earned. In another role he could be an actual positive in this team but as he is, he's an annoying and obnoxious anchor that the team has win in spite of, you know, for his feelings. And Kerr's, and some fans who care about how he feels than what's most important.

Winning.

[Impuniti]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

It's very evident that Klay stans on here care more about feelings and emotions rather than cold hard data. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing things that quite literally go against facts.

Every fan of the GSW dynasty is a fan of peak Klay. Age and injury seem to pretty much preclude him from being that guy now, and he simply can’t play his old role anymore, which was taking the best guard defensively which covered for Curry who is small and gave GSW sn advantage because Klay is taller than most guards.they imo simply can’t be elite defensively with him playing starter minutes and next to Curry, and all of their success has involved being elite defensively. He can’t do all that he once did offensively either; in his heyday shot selection didn’t matter because he was the second best shooter of all time and made ridiculous shots quite frequently. I don’t want to trade him, just playi him to his current strengths and obviously play him heavier minutes if he is hot. If he shows any signs of being the old Klay of course he can immediately return to being a starter playing heavy minutes as Wiggins did, and Kerr will prove himself a genius once again for coaching him back to that status.

With Moody it is mainly because when they were losing in the play-offs last year he had stellar numbers including his 3 point percentage in the minutes he did play despite his limited playing time in the regular season, but Kerr wouldn’t play him more minutes. Maybe he isn’t up to being a starter but he hasn’t had much of a chance to show what he has, and there is probably more chance of him being so than there is of Klay returning to his peak level. Playing 2 way guys and other end of the bench guys last season was hard to understand if GSW do have any plan for him, and it would seem if Kerr’s attitude is set in stone that trading him would be in Moody’s best interests.

There's no Warrior fan that would be against Klay running back the clock and going to the old guy. But he's a 34 year old guy with two season ending injuries. I watch a Warrior fan who runs the tape of every game the next day (he watched the full games twice), and the amount of mistakes and defensive breakdowns that happen with Klay is difficult to keep count of.

I did like his energy level in the last game though.

[Old_Blue]

I have come to the conclusion that certain "fans" have a secret agenda to destroy the team. That, or extremely poor judgement. Seriously, no other team was going to trade for Klay's bloated contract without requiring that the Dubs add draft capital. And, even then, the return was likely to be paltry. So, those of you who were demanding that Klay be traded were also essentially demanding that the team squander a draft pick or two in exchange for some other team's bad contract.

[vvoland]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

If I understand that table correctly, it's measuring the opposing team's eFG when a single warriors player is either on or off the court. I'm not sure how much correlation there is in that number.

I'm sure there are plenty of stats that show klay is a bad defender, particularly off the ball. I am speaking as to why the team's defense was atrocious in the first 40 games.

5 man defensive unit numbers haven't been great for klay this year, but I haven't seen the splits in the last ten, when the team defense was actually good.

I'd like to see a stat that has the opposing player's efg % from a spot on the court when Klay defending the shot as compared to that player's average from that same spot. That's a stat that would correlate to individual defense. I'd think second spectrum would have something like this and it would probably show a significant decline for klay.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Forget about what someone from their home sitting on their chair like me or 29 other GMs in non-GSW teams think. Reality, ie. fact over a 3 season sample shows the team is more dominant with him than without him in the type of role he plays. The issue has always been this obnoxious combination of babying Klay's monolithic-sized ego and Kerr's pathetic man management of putting a player's ego above actually winning. I don't know if this team is good enough to win but they should be much better than what they are now (10th in the West). Kerr has shown one of the worst coaching performances from anyone in years this season.

Klay can work as a 15MPG player who plays specifically vs other bench units. He would be exactly what the team needs. I also find it super amusing that me stating what I said you turn defensive by picking the 15th best player on the roster as a comparison. Q is averaging what, 6 minutes on the vet minimum as the 5th most important player offensively every time he's on the court? Klay is averaging the second highest minutes in the team on 42 million. Time, role, how the coach makes lineups. Kerr backwards atrocious-styled coaching where he allows the team to line up and cater to a mediocre offensive weapon like Klay.

Klay under the right circumstances is perfect. In the current season and previous season, a disaster. Klay could go and play 15MPG elsewhere and be great as he could be here. Not having everyone kiss his ass in embarrassing fashion. He had a very good game last night and you'd think it was some historic performance for example, the performative aspect of it is embarrassing.

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was a home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

.

No there is data that shows that I am right, this isn't a subjective feeling. This team is better without Klay in the manner which he is used. This team has a significantly better record without Klay in the last 3 seasons.

Kerr is quite clearly a **** dumbass this season, and the record indicates that. This team should have a much better record than they do, but he has spent the entire season catering to the old men as well as his spastic 3 to 4 man guard lineup that tanks the team at the end of games, which coincidentally they keep losing a lot of this season (a historically clutch team). This is the same coach that at OT put out four guards and Draymond vs the Hawks, where they got out-rebounded 8 to 1, and lost the game. I find absolutely hysterical when someone doesn't have an argument and pulls this BS argument well are you going to go against the coach, the GM, etc etc? Yes, that's literally the point of this forum. It doesn't mean I'm right, but the point is to question things when they go awry.

Kerr having what it takes to bench players has to be one of the most laughable statements I have ever read on here. They were 12th in the league with over HALF OF THE SEASON done, with the highest wage bill in the league when he finally started changing. Outside of Pop or Spo, every coach in the league would been fired long ago for doing quite literally the complete opposite of what you're saying. Kerr's disgusting nepotism and favoritism to the vets has taken a level that I rarely see in sports, outside of just basketball. Wiggins was quite arguably the worst player in the league for the first 45 days, Klay was also atrocious. Loon even now I'm not sure if he's played better than 50 centers in the league this season. Stating that Kerr after **** up this much and being this far down to missing the playoffs is making changes as evidence that he has what it takes is laughable. During one of his many moronic "keep the core and lose the game" over merit moments this season, the journos on +/- said that Lacob went to the interview section afterwards to listen to his excuse on why he benched Kuminga. The same coach that stated the garbage that "guys will play on merit" before the season started and quite literally not only did the opposite but stuck to his guns until the entire Chase house was burned to the ground. You better believe he's gotten even more pressure to cut that nonsense out from the guys upstairs.

As for Moody, I don't know how good Moody would be. Theoretically I think he can work, but we never got to see it. That's my actual issue, we don't get to see real changes on that end because Kerr has to be a therapist to Klay. Had he gotten even 5-6 game run with 25MPG to start and close, it'd be interesting to see the end results. As for asking how Klay is being babied, that in itself is a wild statement. You don't see the absurd large sum of games where he plays like crap and closes out games.. just because? Where we see someone playing solid or great, which is still better than Klay and they head to the bench for his ego? You don't think it's not completely **** asinine that a player that missed 2 1/2 years of basketball can come back and immediately start on the best team in the league, be the worst player in the entire league for 2 months and have absolute impunity not just to his shooting, but effort, defense, mental strength, paying attention, etc etc? That we constantly throughout 3 years watch guys get benched and then seconds later see Klay do the exact same mistakes with total impunity.

And nobody is babying Moody. If he Moody isn't good enough when he plays, the only thing he deserves is the bench or get some water for the boys. Klay on the other hand has been playing far more than he has earned. In another role he could be an actual positive in this team but as he is, he's an annoying and obnoxious anchor that the team has win in spite of, you know, for his feelings. And Kerr's, and some fans who care about how he feels than what's most important.

Winning.

I know you have already done it but can you sumarize your statistical case that the team is worse when Klay plays again.
I want to see the data now without searching through back data.
Would there be anything to account for your data other than Klay is bad like Klay playing with other players missing?
Is it more Klay ruining the offense or Klay ruining the defense?

You are basically calling Kerr a bad coach. Klay playing when he shoukd not play would be Kerr’s fault not Klay’s fault.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

Where do I find this tool used for the chart.
The chart does not say what timespan was measured. Whas the time this whole season?

Who played with who matters.

[watch1958]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

Where do I find this tool used for the chart.
The chart does not say what timespan was measured. Whas the time this whole season?

Who played with who matters.

Also, Kerr still seems to view Saric as an essential part of the bench unit. Klay has played with the bench a lot lately, which means minutes with Ario.

[floppymoose]

82games.com. Season to date (roughly -they update every few days). You will have to click through to the on/off data for each player.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

So Dray is important to the defense, yes. But it seems like you are trying to use real evidence here, so let's use the best we have. Instead of just picking a run of games and saying "no Dray", and then another run and saying "Dray and Klay", why not look at even finer grained data: the on/off data for each individual player. Here it is:

Code: Select all

name     +/-       oppEFG-On  oppEFG-Off   oppEFG-diff
======================================================
Klay    -7.5       55.8%      52.3%        +3.6%
Dray    +3.8       53.3%      54.9%        -1.6%
Steph   -5.4(!)    55.1%      53.3%        +1.8%
JK      +5.3       53.3%      55.7%        -2.4%
Podz    +9.9       53.8%      55.0%        -1.2%
Wigs    -11.7(!)   55.5%      53.5%        +2.0%

The player who juices the opponents FG% the most is Klay. And it turns out JKs defense fits the team just fine.

We can't pin Klay's defensive woes on Dray's absence. The math doesn't add up.

Where do I find this tool used for the chart.
The chart does not say what timespan was measured. Whas the time this whole season?

Who played with who matters.

Also, Kerr still seems to view Saric as an essential part of the bench unit. Klay has played with the bench a lot lately, which means minutes with Ario.

Trayce and Saric are so different; both good in different ways.
I don’t see Kerr as decided whether to play Trayce or Saric or to play Looney more.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

82games.com. Season to date (roughly -they update every few days). You will have to click through to the on/off data for each player.

Thanks

[Impuniti]

I have come to the conclusion that certain "fans" have a secret agenda to destroy the team. That, or extremely poor judgement. Seriously, no other team was going to trade for Klay's bloated contract without requiring that the Dubs add draft capital. And, even then, the return was likely to be paltry. So, those of you who were demanding that Klay be traded were also essentially demanding that the team squander a draft pick or two in exchange for some other team's bad contract.

There's no real agenda outside of primarily the topic of Klay. The primary issue is that Klay plays, starts and closes game way more than he actually deserves, and it's gotten to the tipping point of this pathetic double standard. If Klay was traded, it would have taken picks to make it happen. The question is do you do that and is it worth for a potential ring?

Kerr is still a smart coach but he's been woeful in playing favorites all season until the last two weeks of the season. Removing Klay was moreso a move to try to send him on the right path. Klay on a limited, unbiased role is actually exactly what the Warriors need. The problem is Klay doesn't accept that and worse off, the coach. Under Kerr's system when he doesn't play silly lineups, this team is legitimately very good. I don't know if they are championship good, but they are conference finals level good.


There's a great team in there, there's a great coach in there. Neither have showed up because of the way Kerr is coaching.

[Impuniti]

I lived for a year and a half with an ex 1st round pick who who was a home town hero and owned all his college records until George Gervin and Ear Boykins broke them and I do think being a basketball star or rock star or ceo or senator does make it hard to be just another guy, random person after being a star.

I don’t where you and 7 other guys on this board are getting the idea that Klay is being babied. So you all disagree with Kerr but having no opinion whether Kerr is right or you 8 guys are right I don’t see why you 8 guys are jumping to the concussion that Klay is being babied or that Klay has wrongly manipulated something. If Kerr is playing Klay too much that is Kerr’s fault. Kerr did have Poz close the game instead of Klay vs the Suns. As Draymond pointed out Draymond got benched and did not close one of the finals games vs the Celtics. I think Kerr has what it takes to bench a future Hall of famer.

I think Curry Klay and Dray are all going into the Hall of Fame,

Klay did nothing wrong except get injured and get old. Who should play is Kerr’s job.

Hillary Clinton thought she was entitled to every woman’s vote but a lot of women did not like her and did not vote for her. I have not noticed Klay feeling that entittled- Some off you hate Draymond for his personality. I like Draymond. I have heard fans of other teams call Curry punchable. They hate Curry for being a pretty baby faced man who dances and beats their team some people hate Curry. I don’t know how you can hate Curry. I can understand Draymond turning ome people off but Curry? If you are going to hate Curry you might as well hate Tom Brady and Santa Clause too. It is sick the way people baby Santa Clause always leaving cookies out for him and sucking up to his ass. What kind of A-hole would keep a naughty or nice list.

So what do you guys not like about Klay? Is something wrong with him having a boat and a dog and wearing a captain’s hat. Is something wrong with not having a poker face and letting it show when you are happy or sad? I thought Klay was goofy and kind of fun to have around.

I kind of don’t like Kevin Durant. I don’t care about Harrison Barnes, Wiggins or Kuminga as people. I have good feelings about Steph, Klay, Dray, Looney and Iguodala as people. This Warriors dynasty would not have been as fun if Curry had a rotten personality.

Did Klay do something wrong? Who is babying Klay. I never had sibbling rivalry. Is thinking Klay is unfairly babied an offshoot of sibbling rivalry.

Or is this about thinking that something unfair happened to Moody? Fans always overrate their young players. It is not Klay’s fault that Moody did not get playing time and Moody is not as good as many of you guys think he is.

Why do you guys want to baby Moody? So this is not really about Klay is it? The real problem is that you are Moody’s mother. Oh he is such a good boy.

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No there is data that shows that I am right, this isn't a subjective feeling. This team is better without Klay in the manner which he is used. This team has a significantly better record without Klay in the last 3 seasons.

Kerr is quite clearly a **** dumbass this season, and the record indicates that. This team should have a much better record than they do, but he has spent the entire season catering to the old men as well as his spastic 3 to 4 man guard lineup that tanks the team at the end of games, which coincidentally they keep losing a lot of this season (a historically clutch team). This is the same coach that at OT put out four guards and Draymond vs the Hawks, where they got out-rebounded 8 to 1, and lost the game. I find absolutely hysterical when someone doesn't have an argument and pulls this BS argument well are you going to go against the coach, the GM, etc etc? Yes, that's literally the point of this forum. It doesn't mean I'm right, but the point is to question things when they go awry.

Kerr having what it takes to bench players has to be one of the most laughable statements I have ever read on here. They were 12th in the league with over HALF OF THE SEASON done, with the highest wage bill in the league when he finally started changing. Outside of Pop or Spo, every coach in the league would been fired long ago for doing quite literally the complete opposite of what you're saying. Kerr's disgusting nepotism and favoritism to the vets has taken a level that I rarely see in sports, outside of just basketball. Wiggins was quite arguably the worst player in the league for the first 45 days, Klay was also atrocious. Loon even now I'm not sure if he's played better than 50 centers in the league this season. Stating that Kerr after **** up this much and being this far down to missing the playoffs is making changes as evidence that he has what it takes is laughable. During one of his many moronic "keep the core and lose the game" over merit moments this season, the journos on +/- said that Lacob went to the interview section afterwards to listen to his excuse on why he benched Kuminga. The same coach that stated the garbage that "guys will play on merit" before the season started and quite literally not only did the opposite but stuck to his guns until the entire Chase house was burned to the ground. You better believe he's gotten even more pressure to cut that nonsense out from the guys upstairs.

As for Moody, I don't know how good Moody would be. Theoretically I think he can work, but we never got to see it. That's my actual issue, we don't get to see real changes on that end because Kerr has to be a therapist to Klay. Had he gotten even 5-6 game run with 25MPG to start and close, it'd be interesting to see the end results. As for asking how Klay is being babied, that in itself is a wild statement. You don't see the absurd large sum of games where he plays like crap and closes out games.. just because? Where we see someone playing solid or great, which is still better than Klay and they head to the bench for his ego? You don't think it's not completely **** asinine that a player that missed 2 1/2 years of basketball can come back and immediately start on the best team in the league, be the worst player in the entire league for 2 months and have absolute impunity not just to his shooting, but effort, defense, mental strength, paying attention, etc etc? That we constantly throughout 3 years watch guys get benched and then seconds later see Klay do the exact same mistakes with total impunity.

And nobody is babying Moody. If he Moody isn't good enough when he plays, the only thing he deserves is the bench or get some water for the boys. Klay on the other hand has been playing far more than he has earned. In another role he could be an actual positive in this team but as he is, he's an annoying and obnoxious anchor that the team has win in spite of, you know, for his feelings. And Kerr's, and some fans who care about how he feels than what's most important.

Winning.

I know you have already done it but can you sumarize your statistical case that the team is worse when Klay plays again.
I want to see the data now without searching through back data.
Would there be anything to account for your data other than Klay is bad like Klay playing with other players missing?
Is it more Klay ruining the offense or Klay ruining the defense?

You are basically calling Kerr a bad coach. Klay playing when he shoukd not play would be Kerr’s fault not Klay’s fault.

The team has an absurdly higher win % through 3 seasons without Klay vs with him. Net rating wise they also 6.5 when he's off. There was also some data awhile back that showed Klay plays very well vs bench units compared to starters.

If Kerr shortened and lined up his minutes better, Klay would be a good positive on this team. Kerr's been a bad coach this season, he's one of the best coaches of the last 9 seasons. His lineups, rotations, and decision making has been for me the biggest cause they keep losing some of these tight games and there's been a lot of them.