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a8bil wrote:

Impuniti wrote:

a8bil wrote:I think everyone has been a bit too harsh on Klay. Guy came back from 2 brutal injuries, which had to have been grueling in terms of the amount of pain he had to work through. He played last year, but the common wisdom, shown through many recent cases across multiple sports, is that Klay won't come back to 100% form (which may be less than pre-injuries) until this year. It was well known and discussed that Klay took off most of last summer, and it showed in the early season. No back to backs, time restrictions and his shot was off, but as the season progressed, he rounded more into game shape and had one of his best shooting seasons of his career. But the lack of depth took its toll on Klay. In the PS, he was playing over 36 minutes per game, and you could see his legs betraying him as the PS progressed. Maybe that's age, but I just don't think it is. I have a hard time saying that someone who has been as good as Klay has been (yeah, he's not Curry but he has been darn good), and who has worked as hard as he did to come back, doesn't deserve some benefit of the doubt.

People are not harsh enough on Klay, there's few players in NBA history that get away with the things he has throughout his entire career with total impunity. I can't blame someone when their shot just doesn't go in, because that's basketball. That can happen, and I would only put guys like Steph or KD in that category where they're expected to do it whether they have it for the night or not.

Klay's issues are far deeper than that. The guy is clearly one of the most arrogant and self-serving players we have in this game. When KD joined, him and Steph changed their game (KD at least for year 1) to try to get the whole team to work out. Klay is the only one that said "I'm not changing ****". People laugh it off as this funny story, but it shows what an egomaniac he is. Two of the best players of all time are willing to change their game for the betterment of the team, but the 4th most important guy in the team? No that's too much for him.

The guy is a legendary level egomaniac and what's amazing is how people gloss over everything he does as well "it's just Klay". Why did Klay have to start when he got two massive injuries and missed 2 1/2 years of basketball when he came back? The team was rolling then and the idea would have been to use him as a backup for a while until he's ready to not disrupt the way the team was going. JP and Klay were also playing the game of who can play for himself more this entire last season, where it felt like they were isolated from the rest of the team.

If Klay doesn't have it, why is he taking 19 shots in an elimination game? Oh because it's game 6, so it has to feed his ego. He was doing the same in 2022 game 6 as well despite shooting like ****, he was the only player that was playing only for himself. The same guy that's talking about being an allstar in his exit interview after he plays like garbage, more me me me. Frustrating to see Kerr bench any young guy for any mistake they make and these kids see Klay doing the same mistakes play after play after play in the bench.. again with impunity from Kerr. To me last season Kerr completely lost his voice and value as a coach with the young guys due to his embarrassing double standard that he set with Klay and the young dudes. Klay could have talked to Wiggins and encouraged him to be the #2 guy on the team, but instead he still clings on to that delusional dream. Afterall, he has to think of himself over the team. The most frustrating thing is that he showed he can play a vital role if he understood where he was at this point of his career. When the Warriors came back from 0-2 to 3-2, Klay took a lot less shots and just focused on team play. He was extremely efficient and effective. But again, to do that would be conceding that he's no longer the #2 guy and more of an Iggy type of role for the team. Can't have that role with that ego.

Glad you were able to get that off your chest... .

GunnerWRX wrote:Klay will be extended if he accepts market value. No team will pay him more than $20-$25M per for more than 3 years.

Negations will go bad if he is still thinking of getting $40-$50M per year from the Warriors.

Whether the big 3 stay together depends on Klay. I’m sure the Warriors will gladly extend him for $70-75M/3.

Everyone loves Klay for what he has done for us, and where he is at now after 2 brutal injuries. But the team cannot be kept together if he wants more $ than what other teams will pay him, and he has gotten much more $ than other teams could pay him over his last 2 contracts.

GSWFan1994 wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:Klay will be extended if he accepts market value. No team will pay him more than $20-$25M per for more than 3 years.

Negations will go bad if he is still thinking of getting $40-$50M per year from the Warriors.

Whether the big 3 stay together depends on Klay. I’m sure the Warriors will gladly extend him for $70-75M/3.

Everyone loves Klay for what he has done for us, and where he is at now after 2 brutal injuries. But the team cannot be kept together if he wants more $ than what other teams will pay him, and he has gotten much more $ than other teams could pay him over his last 2 contracts.

A couple of days ago I visited the 76ers forum to check what they thought on Paul Reed's offer sheet.

There was a poster there who suggested they throw the max at Klay next off-season (when the Sixers could have 60 mi in cap space)... and kid you not, multiple posters agreed with him.

Just to give you an idea how other team's fans value Klay. Of course they overvalue the raw numbers. I'm quite sure many GMs think that way too.

GSWFan1994 wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:Klay will be extended if he accepts market value. No team will pay him more than $20-$25M per for more than 3 years.

Negations will go bad if he is still thinking of getting $40-$50M per year from the Warriors.

Whether the big 3 stay together depends on Klay. I’m sure the Warriors will gladly extend him for $70-75M/3.

Everyone loves Klay for what he has done for us, and where he is at now after 2 brutal injuries. But the team cannot be kept together if he wants more $ than what other teams will pay him, and he has gotten much more $ than other teams could pay him over his last 2 contracts.

A couple of days ago I visited the 76ers forum to check what they thought on Paul Reed's offer sheet.

There was a poster there who suggested they throw the max at Klay next off-season (when the Sixers could have 60 mi in cap space)... and kid you not, multiple posters agreed with him.

Just to give you an idea how other team's fans value Klay. Of course they overvalue the raw numbers. I'm quite sure many GMs think that way too.

cpower wrote:

GSWFan1994 wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:Klay will be extended if he accepts market value. No team will pay him more than $20-$25M per for more than 3 years.

Negations will go bad if he is still thinking of getting $40-$50M per year from the Warriors.

Whether the big 3 stay together depends on Klay. I’m sure the Warriors will gladly extend him for $70-75M/3.

Everyone loves Klay for what he has done for us, and where he is at now after 2 brutal injuries. But the team cannot be kept together if he wants more $ than what other teams will pay him, and he has gotten much more $ than other teams could pay him over his last 2 contracts.

A couple of days ago I visited the 76ers forum to check what they thought on Paul Reed's offer sheet.

There was a poster there who suggested they throw the max at Klay next off-season (when the Sixers could have 60 mi in cap space)... and kid you not, multiple posters agreed with him.

Just to give you an idea how other team's fans value Klay. Of course they overvalue the raw numbers. I'm quite sure many GMs think that way too.

Klay is putting up 52%TS and 9 PER in playoffs....i am really hoping they do value the numbers

CDM_Stats wrote:

GSWFan1994 wrote:

GunnerWRX wrote:Klay will be extended if he accepts market value. No team will pay him more than $20-$25M per for more than 3 years.

Negations will go bad if he is still thinking of getting $40-$50M per year from the Warriors.

Whether the big 3 stay together depends on Klay. I’m sure the Warriors will gladly extend him for $70-75M/3.

Everyone loves Klay for what he has done for us, and where he is at now after 2 brutal injuries. But the team cannot be kept together if he wants more $ than what other teams will pay him, and he has gotten much more $ than other teams could pay him over his last 2 contracts.

A couple of days ago I visited the 76ers forum to check what they thought on Paul Reed's offer sheet.

There was a poster there who suggested they throw the max at Klay next off-season (when the Sixers could have 60 mi in cap space)... and kid you not, multiple posters agreed with him.

Just to give you an idea how other team's fans value Klay. Of course they overvalue the raw numbers. I'm quite sure many GMs think that way too.

I'd kinda like to see that.. I have a working theory that Embiid is not this foundation piece many perceive him as, both on-court and off (but especially off). Harden wanted out, Simmons went from high upside star to albatross, Tobias Harris lost value, Al Horford lost value.. seems like there's always some weird **** going on over there, and he's the lone constant

Plus I'd shed not a single tear if this was Klay's last year with the team.. easiest skillset to replace of our top 6 players. The amount of salary he'd have to take for me to be on board with his next contract here would be pretty damn insulting to him

Will say though, after watching IND's first 2 SL games.. really wish we found a way to get Sheppard. He'd fit into the role so well. But Q might too, and he was free, so who knows

a8bil wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

GSWFan1994 wrote:
A couple of days ago I visited the 76ers forum to check what they thought on Paul Reed's offer sheet.

There was a poster there who suggested they throw the max at Klay next off-season (when the Sixers could have 60 mi in cap space)... and kid you not, multiple posters agreed with him.

Just to give you an idea how other team's fans value Klay. Of course they overvalue the raw numbers. I'm quite sure many GMs think that way too.

I'd kinda like to see that.. I have a working theory that Embiid is not this foundation piece many perceive him as, both on-court and off (but especially off). Harden wanted out, Simmons went from high upside star to albatross, Tobias Harris lost value, Al Horford lost value.. seems like there's always some weird **** going on over there, and he's the lone constant

Plus I'd shed not a single tear if this was Klay's last year with the team.. easiest skillset to replace of our top 6 players. The amount of salary he'd have to take for me to be on board with his next contract here would be pretty damn insulting to him

Will say though, after watching IND's first 2 SL games.. really wish we found a way to get Sheppard. He'd fit into the role so well. But Q might too, and he was free, so who knows

You lose credibility by making statements like this. There are very few players in the NBA who consistently shoot over 40% from 3, and score 20+ ppg. Most of those that do are on max contracts, or are in line for max contracts (Bane, Maxey).

CDM_Stats wrote:

a8bil wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:
I'd kinda like to see that.. I have a working theory that Embiid is not this foundation piece many perceive him as, both on-court and off (but especially off). Harden wanted out, Simmons went from high upside star to albatross, Tobias Harris lost value, Al Horford lost value.. seems like there's always some weird **** going on over there, and he's the lone constant

Plus I'd shed not a single tear if this was Klay's last year with the team.. easiest skillset to replace of our top 6 players. The amount of salary he'd have to take for me to be on board with his next contract here would be pretty damn insulting to him

Will say though, after watching IND's first 2 SL games.. really wish we found a way to get Sheppard. He'd fit into the role so well. But Q might too, and he was free, so who knows

You lose credibility by making statements like this. There are very few players in the NBA who consistently shoot over 40% from 3, and score 20+ ppg. Most of those that do are on max contracts, or are in line for max contracts (Bane, Maxey).

Do I? You misunderstanding doesn't make what I say any less correct

Easiest to find an off-ball shooter. Dont know why you think it has to be an exact statistical replacement.. but in that case, I'd still argue its correct. I get that you're for some reason taking up the mantle for Klay right now, but you can make that point with being obtuse about it

ShootersShoot wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

a8bil wrote: You lose credibility by making statements like this. There are very few players in the NBA who consistently shoot over 40% from 3, and score 20+ ppg. Most of those that do are on max contracts, or are in line for max contracts (Bane, Maxey).

Do I? You misunderstanding doesn't make what I say any less correct

Easiest to find an off-ball shooter. Dont know why you think it has to be an exact statistical replacement.. but in that case, I'd still argue its correct. I get that you're for some reason taking up the mantle for Klay right now, but you can make that point with being obtuse about it

I think the main issue is that Klay will be 34 years old when he becomes a free agent. We really do not know how he ages in the next few years, especially factoring in his previous injuries. It is a scary proposition. If Klay was like 30 or 31 it would be a lot easier to justify max money.

CDM_Stats wrote:

a8bil wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:
I'd kinda like to see that.. I have a working theory that Embiid is not this foundation piece many perceive him as, both on-court and off (but especially off). Harden wanted out, Simmons went from high upside star to albatross, Tobias Harris lost value, Al Horford lost value.. seems like there's always some weird **** going on over there, and he's the lone constant

Plus I'd shed not a single tear if this was Klay's last year with the team.. easiest skillset to replace of our top 6 players. The amount of salary he'd have to take for me to be on board with his next contract here would be pretty damn insulting to him

Will say though, after watching IND's first 2 SL games.. really wish we found a way to get Sheppard. He'd fit into the role so well. But Q might too, and he was free, so who knows

You lose credibility by making statements like this. There are very few players in the NBA who consistently shoot over 40% from 3, and score 20+ ppg. Most of those that do are on max contracts, or are in line for max contracts (Bane, Maxey).

Do I? You misunderstanding doesn't make what I say any less correct

Easiest to find an off-ball shooter. Dont know why you think it has to be an exact statistical replacement.. but in that case, I'd still argue its correct. I get that you're for some reason taking up the mantle for Klay right now, but you can make that point with being obtuse about it

a8bil wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:

a8bil wrote: You lose credibility by making statements like this. There are very few players in the NBA who consistently shoot over 40% from 3, and score 20+ ppg. Most of those that do are on max contracts, or are in line for max contracts (Bane, Maxey).

Do I? You misunderstanding doesn't make what I say any less correct

Easiest to find an off-ball shooter. Dont know why you think it has to be an exact statistical replacement.. but in that case, I'd still argue its correct. I get that you're for some reason taking up the mantle for Klay right now, but you can make that point with being obtuse about it

Yeah, you do. You keep saying how easy it is to find an off-ball shooter...I'm calling your bluff. My point, which is far from obtuse, is that getting someone who shoots at Klay's level involves paying a max contract...far from an "easy" replacement as you continue to proclaim.

CDM_Stats wrote:CP3 makes the team better than Poole did, on paper.

floppymoose wrote:League Rank in RAPM last season:

Code: Select all

Draymond Green      7
Stephen Curry       37
Kevon Looney        64
Donte DiVincenzo    76
Andrew Wiggins      94
Moses Moody         183
Anthony Lamb        185
Klay Thompson       251
Jonathan Kuminga    391
Jordan Poole        475
Ty Jerome           488
JaMychal Green      504
James Wiseman       538


There were 539 players in the league last season. So everyone from Poole on down was pretty much unplayable last season.

Kuminga was bad.

Klay was a rotation guy but not a starter.

Moody and Lamb were decent.

Green, Curry, Looney, DDV, and Wiggens were very good to great.

RAPM isn't perfect but damn does this agree with my eye test.

CP3 was around 120 I think, which would be moving up 350ish players from Poole.

Scotty2Hotty wrote:

CDM_Stats wrote:CP3 makes the team better than Poole did, on paper.

Depends on what paper you’re viewing. If it’s scoring, no. If it’s keeping the Warriors pace flowing, no. If it’s more than a 1-year solution, no.

I suppose if you’re banking on a slight fraction of an uptick in more assists and less turnovers, then on paper, you might be right.

Coxy wrote:

floppymoose wrote:League Rank in RAPM last season:

Code: Select all

Draymond Green      7
Stephen Curry       37
Kevon Looney        64
Donte DiVincenzo    76
Andrew Wiggins      94
Moses Moody         183
Anthony Lamb        185
Klay Thompson       251
Jonathan Kuminga    391
Jordan Poole        475
Ty Jerome           488
JaMychal Green      504
James Wiseman       538


There were 539 players in the league last season. So everyone from Poole on down was pretty much unplayable last season.

Kuminga was bad.

Klay was a rotation guy but not a starter.

Moody and Lamb were decent.

Green, Curry, Looney, DDV, and Wiggens were very good to great.

RAPM isn't perfect but damn does this agree with my eye test.

CP3 was around 120 I think, which would be moving up 350ish players from Poole.

Interesting to see this. DDV is suprisingly high on that list. Poole and Wiseman were god awful lol.

CDM_Stats wrote:

Coxy wrote:

floppymoose wrote:League Rank in RAPM last season:

Code: Select all

Draymond Green      7
Stephen Curry       37
Kevon Looney        64
Donte DiVincenzo    76
Andrew Wiggins      94
Moses Moody         183
Anthony Lamb        185
Klay Thompson       251
Jonathan Kuminga    391
Jordan Poole        475
Ty Jerome           488
JaMychal Green      504
James Wiseman       538


There were 539 players in the league last season. So everyone from Poole on down was pretty much unplayable last season.

Kuminga was bad.

Klay was a rotation guy but not a starter.

Moody and Lamb were decent.

Green, Curry, Looney, DDV, and Wiggens were very good to great.

RAPM isn't perfect but damn does this agree with my eye test.

CP3 was around 120 I think, which would be moving up 350ish players from Poole.

Interesting to see this. DDV is suprisingly high on that list. Poole and Wiseman were god awful lol.

RAPM is built for players like DDV.. I dont like it as a baseline evaluation - way too noisy and general - but when you look at RAPM compared to APM, or RAPTOR, or DARKO.. it helps bridge the gap of players who do the little things that help win games, but aren't officially counted stats

So DDV on a smart team? Oh yeah he's gonna spike, just like Dray does. In fact, that list right there is pretty damn close to a ranking of the team's overall BBIQ last year. Maybe switch a couple people around, but if you take away the numbers and just make it a BBIQ list, it's almost dead on imo