4/2- Game 75: Mavericks (45-29) @ Warriors (40-34) 7pm TNT

[CDM_Stats]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

Looney is a great cog when he's playing with capable defenders, thats never changed

I think JK was coming into that level too this season, where as long as you dont need him specifically to make up for someone terrible on defense, he can be useful. And we have the roster to make that happen, with a couple notable exceptions

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Podz quiet box score other thaan his 9 defensive rebound but he adds to his plus minus dominance with a plus 17.

[CDM_Stats]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

Are we just going to ignore Klay rotating and closing out on 3 pt shooters, forcing the next pass. Yes, I think we are

It was a good play, which is why he's especially frustrating. He can do this whenever, but he only does this when things are going well for him personally, like hitting a few jumpers

Watch him closeout on any shooter though.. he literally clocks out the second the shot goes up. Doesnt get boards, doesnt leak for transition O, and if his closeout results in a pass, thats someone elses problem. 2x tonight that I saw.. its his own effort and attitude thats keeping him down

Which makes me think.. if he's capable and he's not doing it, why wouldnt the coach hold him accountable? Because we could absolutely use the Klay that played defense in that clip, but its rarer than Draymond accepting a foul call

[vvoland]

Then there are people who think that Klay making a game clinching 3 with 40 seconds like he did against the Spurs is selfish and he should have run out the clock.

why try and even reason with that?

otoh there's a post a few above this one thats just 40 disjointed lines of (I'm sure) crazy Klay support followed by an entirely subjective question about how many wins removing him from the roster would create

if people are going to fake knowing ball, let them, just tired of every GT going sideways because some folks gotta have the most extreme positions to get engagement, exhausting

There's like 3 people that have anything positive to say about Klay and the most extreme takes come from the other side of the aisle. Takes like the one I cited. Or the one above that's "Klay's not an NBA player"

I totally get the frustration of someone who's been watching Klay for over a decade give his all to the team just to watch fans seemingly root harder for him to fail than they do for the dubs to succeed.

The question about how many more wins the dubs would have if klay didn't play a minute this season was in response to another poster saying Klay's the reason we're a 10 seed and the solution was to send him home before the year started (paraphrasing).

It is frustrating watching every game thread devolve into a Klay thread. Just like tonight, every time Dallas went on a run, it was Klay's fault. Not the TOs, not the bad Steph game. Not the atrocious officiating, especially early in the first and late in the 4th. Just klay, only klay and always klay

[superunknown]

Klay shot poorly.

Curry shot even worse.

He tried a step back on two tall forwards in the second half. That not chucking?

Or you're just eager to take another shot at Klay, like he's the only one taking bad shots.

are you really comparing Curry shot selection to Klay's? There is nothing wrong with Currys shot selection he is just not as good as making them....Klay on the other hands, he should not even attempt half of the shots he puts up...he cares about his FGA more than anything

Oh, OK mindreader, Klay is purposely putting up bad shots and purposely drifting on his jumpers because he rather have a bad FGA than no FGA.

These two are the only players on the team who've consistently hit contested shots in their careers.

Most of the other players on the team can hit open shots but they have much less margin to get shots off because they don't have the quick release nor the confidence.

Moody is on a great run but he's mostly shot wide open ones where his feet are set when he releases. Though he did a catch and shoot one where he was contested heavily. But typically he doesn't pull the trigger. I hope they've been working with him to shoot off the catch because in the NBA, a lot of the times, those are the only chances you have.

Kuminga only shoots when they're backed way off of him. Probably a good idea though he's going to have to become more proficient at those wide open looks.

Klay has hit those tough contested shots off the catch all his career and made enough of them. Including last season when the only reason the Warriors stayed in playoff contention was when he had a huge month or two (January or February 2023) when Curry was out injured.

You haters probably want to forget but last January, he scored 54 points vs. the Hawks on a LOT of FGAs. He shot 21-39 and 10-21, with 8 rebounds. Curry didn't play the game.

He and the team continue to give him this role, because he's the only one other than Steph with the pedigree to shoot that kind of volume.

Now, maybe he just simply can't have those kinds of explosions any more. But the team obviously have few options because of their cap situations.

There are going to be more and more games, as Curry ages, when they need someone to take up a lot of the scoring. People are hoping Moody is that guy or Wiggins taking up more of the offensive load.

That hasn't worked out too well this season. Lately, Moody and Wiggins are shooting better, much better for Wiggins. Kuminga gave the team some boost of offense for awhile.

Klay has shot better since first going to the bench. The last week though, his shooting hasn't been as good.

But if the team is going to do anything this season, who is going to provide scoring and spacing when teams load up on Curry, who's also been struggling with his shooting?

You going to put the onus on Moody, Kuminga, Podz? Or hope that Wiggins' fragile ego can suddenly become aggro Wiggins from 2022?

Team doesn't have many options but the haters are so eager to pile on unless Klay shoots the light out.

your post doesn't make much sense.
first, he CANNOT hit those contested shots anymore at an acceptable rate. they are simply bad/dumb shots at this stage. hence, he should not take them but rather play smarter which he showed time and time again is completely incapable of.
second, and most importantly, the so called 'haters' don't care if he shoots the light out, he's become unplayable on defense, that's the main reason they have been on him (and kerr) all year long. this team cannot afford such defensive liability, regardless of what the offensive output is (same as for saric, who in fact and rightfully so, has seen his role drastically reduced over the course of the season).
and the argument about spacing and shooting when teams load up on steph is volatile because you don't need necessarily a 3 to punish that but someone who can actually punish the double team/trap. can be a drive, a midrange shot, a post up, etc. doesn't have to be a 3. just a bucket in any shape or for would do. you need efficiency and smart plays, not 3 point shooting or spacing per se.

[RUN-TJM]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

This isn’t a great example of team defence. We were scrambling and Luka inexplicably passed up a wide open 3. They had us on a string and Dallas made 1 pass too many.

[RUN-TJM]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

This isn’t a great example of team defence. We were scrambling and Luka inexplicably passed up a wide open 3. They had us on a string and Dallas made 1 pass too many.

In actual fact, Klay plays a pretty good defensive possession as does Looney.
Klay doesn’t over rotate when he sees Looney has Washington covered and then doesn’t leave the corner 3 point shooter on the drive. He then closes out on Luka with Loon…. (I think I just threw up in my mouth just typing that!)

[superunknown]

Right.

Klay is mainly the reason the Warriors are #10 in the WC this year.

There's plenty to criticize about the team but the haters go in big on Klay and Kerr for giving him minutes.

he is. if they just left him home the team would have a better record.
and yes, kerr giving him 30 undeserved mins a game has been a joke all year long.

So what would be their record and seeding RIGHT NOW if Klay hadn't played a minute this season?

Let's hear it, they're 41-34.

How many MORE wins would they have? 5? 10? 20?

Put up or shut up.

first of all, another line like that and I'll just ignore your replies moving forward. we are not in the kindergarden, learn some education.
to your question, they'd likely have a similar record of the pels and mavs if not the clippers (who are falling lately), so def a playoff team not a play-in team.

[vvoland]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

Are we just going to ignore Klay rotating and closing out on 3 pt shooters, forcing the next pass. Yes, I think we are

It was a good play, which is why he's especially frustrating. He can do this whenever, but he only does this when things are going well for him personally, like hitting a few jumpers

Watch him closeout on any shooter though.. he literally clocks out the second the shot goes up. Doesnt get boards, doesnt leak for transition O, and if his closeout results in a pass, thats someone elses problem. 2x tonight that I saw.. its his own effort and attitude thats keeping him down

Which makes me think.. if he's capable and he's not doing it, why wouldnt the coach hold him accountable? Because we could absolutely use the Klay that played defense in that clip, but its rarer than Draymond accepting a foul call

Agreed. 100%. Klay's defense is directly correlated to his offense. I think that's true for a lot of players, even on this team. Wigs is one example; JK another. Honestly, this is where you and I can have a party just defecating on the coaching staff.

Whoever is in his corner needs to hammer one, simple message. Focus on everything other than scoring. Defend consistently. Make the simple play. Take smart shots (even if Kerr draws up a play that results in a heavily contested shot, pass in up). Box out. Watch your body language. He does that, he might find out that's he's closer to the player he wants to be than he's looked.

I guess that's not exactly 'one simple message' but you get my point. I don't think that's been the message Kerr and Co have communicated. Like, at all. I think it's been, we need your offense (kinda true) and you're still one of the best shooters in the league (very true).

It's been completely the wrong message but Kerr has allowed his vets (not just klay) to get away with lazy rotations, not running back in transition (curry is the worst here), arguing with refs while the game is going on (we know who this is), turnovers (Steph and dray) and awful late game decisions. It's like, if this team can go weeks averaging 12 TOs per game, how do we have 11 in the first half of a must-win home game?

And come on, it's not more rare than dray accepting a foul call. In fact, has dray ever actually done that?

[vvoland]

your post doesn't make much sense.
first, he CANNOT hit those contested shots anymore at an acceptable rate. they are simply bad/dumb shots at this stage. hence, he should not take them but rather play smarter which he showed time and time again is completely incapable of.
second, and most importantly, the so called 'haters' don't care if he shoots the light out, he's become unplayable on defense, that's the main reason they have been on him (and kerr) all year long. this team cannot afford such defensive liability, regardless of what the offensive output is (same as for saric, who in fact and rightfully so, has seen his role drastically reduced over the course of the season).
and the argument about spacing and shooting when teams load up on steph is volatile because you don't need necessarily a 3 to punish that but someone who can actually punish the double team/trap. can be a drive, a midrange shot, a post up, etc. doesn't have to be a 3. just a bucket in any shape or for would do. you need efficiency and smart plays, not 3 point shooting or spacing per se.[/quote]


Saric had his role reduced because he couldn't make a shot. Whether you agree with the decision, it wasn't his defense that got him benched.

Klay is 3rd in the league in made 3s on 38%. Considering how everyone thinks, correctly btw, that he takes really tough shots, that absolutely means he hits them at an "acceptable rate." It's just not the rate we're used to, which is like 2-4% higher.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Now, timpf sees a path for the Warriors on the back of defense to do some damage in the playoffs. Same thing most have been saying all year. Play the defense guys, we win. Play multiple poor defense guys and we mostly lose.

I also saw some different scheming during this streak that was different from the start of the year. Did we get a new AC recently?

[watch1958]

Right.

Klay is mainly the reason the Warriors are #10 in the WC this year.

There's plenty to criticize about the team but the haters go in big on Klay and Kerr for giving him minutes.

he is. if they just left him home the team would have a better record.
and yes, kerr giving him 30 undeserved mins a game has been a joke all year long.

So what would be their record and seeding RIGHT NOW if Klay hadn't played a minute this season?

Let's hear it, they're 41-34.

How many MORE wins would they have? 5? 10? 20?

Put up or shut up.

5 more.

[RUN-TJM]

Now, timpf sees a path for the Warriors on the back of defense to do some damage in the playoffs. Same thing most have been saying all year. Play the defense guys, we win. Play multiple poor defense guys and we mostly lose.

I also saw some different scheming during this streak that was different from the start of the year. Did we get a new AC recently?

My only worry is that we lack genuine size. There are some big dudes who can play waiting in the playoffs.

As good as Draymond is, over a 7 game series playing against genuine bigs, he will wear down. TJD and Looney are situational backups.

We aren’t good enough anymore to overcome size.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Now, timpf sees a path for the Warriors on the back of defense to do some damage in the playoffs. Same thing most have been saying all year. Play the defense guys, we win. Play multiple poor defense guys and we mostly lose.

I also saw some different scheming during this streak that was different from the start of the year. Did we get a new AC recently?

My only worry is that we lack genuine size. There are some big dudes who can play waiting in the playoffs.

As good as Draymond is, over a 7 game series playing against genuine bigs, he will wear down. TJD and Looney are situational backups.

We aren’t good enough anymore to overcome size.

Yes size can be an issue, but only if we are small everywhere.

DRayis undersized, but has a 7 ft wingspan. Wiggins has a 7 ft wingspan. Moody has a 7 ft wingspan. JK has a 7 ft wingspan. GP2 might have a great wingspan too. We have big athletic wings that can outspeed most of the league. The problem is that Kerr loves to play his t-rex line ups. So, now we are short, slow, and unathletic across the board this season. The only exception has been these last 5 games. Its no coincidence that the more our wings played and the less the midget ball units played, we won games on the backs of defense with some timely scoring from Klay and Wiggins.

[wco81]

he is. if they just left him home the team would have a better record.
and yes, kerr giving him 30 undeserved mins a game has been a joke all year long.

So what would be their record and seeding RIGHT NOW if Klay hadn't played a minute this season?

Let's hear it, they're 41-34.

How many MORE wins would they have? 5? 10? 20?

Put up or shut up.

5 more.

That would make them 46-29 instead of 41-34, 17 games over .500 instead of just 7 games over .500.

Just under the Clippers so ahead of Mavs and Pelicans.

Warriors have played the most clutch games in the league, 44 of them including tonight. They are 22 and 22.

Interesting stats, seems like the clutch games record reflect different reasons why a team has the clutch record it has:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-traditional?PerMode=Totals&dir=A&sort=MIN

Bulls are ranked first, probably based on winning percentage and most number of clutch games played. Their stats show great shooting as a team, 48/38.5/82.1.

Warriors on the other hand haven't shot that well as a team in the 44 clutch games, 43.6/34.9/81.5. But look at the different kinds of shots made. Warriors took and made more 3 pointers than any other team. But the Bulls shot and made a lot of FTs, almost double the Warriors FTAs and FTMs.

Maybe Klay shot us out of those games. But likely we have to look at the several of the games, the opponents, which may include more good defensive teams.

There's no way to know of course, but 5 more wins is a huge difference in results. Last season, Warriors won 44 total games, which made them #6 in the WC.

It is possible for the Warriors to equal or exceed that win total this season, just winning 3 or 4 out of the remaining 7 games. But they'd likely still be #10 seed, not #6 seed. Curry played fewer games last season because of injuries. Wiggins also missed a lot of games too.

But if not for Klay, they'd already have 46 wins, 2 more than all of last season, according to you.

Or maybe, the WC is much stronger . For instance, Denver won 53 games last season on the way to their title. This season, Denver already has 53 wins with 6 games left. Minnesota and OKC each have won 52 games so their win totals will exceed Denver's last season.

This season, Draymond has missed a lot of games and he's made a huge difference since returning from suspension. But according to you guys, Klay is the biggest reason we have a poor record, not anyone else.

It's not better competition or missed games by Green. It's all Klay. Otherwise they should have 46 wins already.

[michaelm]

So what would be their record and seeding RIGHT NOW if Klay hadn't played a minute this season?

Let's hear it, they're 41-34.

How many MORE wins would they have? 5? 10? 20?

Put up or shut up.

5 more.

That would make them 46-29 instead of 41-34, 17 games over .500 instead of just 7 games over .500.

Just under the Clippers so ahead of Mavs and Pelicans.

Warriors have played the most clutch games in the league, 44 of them including tonight. They are 22 and 22.

Interesting stats, seems like the clutch games record reflect different reasons why a team has the clutch record it has:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-traditional?PerMode=Totals&dir=A&sort=MIN

Bulls are ranked first, probably based on winning percentage and most number of clutch games played. Their stats show great shooting as a team, 48/38.5/82.1.

Warriors on the other hand haven't shot that well as a team in the 44 clutch games, 43.6/34.9/81.5. But look at the different kinds of shots made. Warriors took and made more 3 pointers than any other team. But the Bulls shot and made a lot of FTs, almost double the Warriors FTAs and FTMs.

Maybe Klay shot us out of those games. But likely we have to look at the several of the games, the opponents, which may include more good defensive teams.

There's no way to know of course, but 5 more wins is a huge difference in results. Last season, Warriors won 44 total games, which made them #6 in the WC.

It is possible for the Warriors to equal or exceed that win total this season, just winning 3 or 4 out of the remaining 7 games. But they'd likely still be #10 seed, not #6 seed. Curry played fewer games last season because of injuries. Wiggins also missed a lot of games too.

But if not for Klay, they'd already have 46 wins, 2 more than all of last season, according to you.

Or maybe, the WC is much stronger . For instance, Denver won 53 games last season on the way to their title. This season, Denver already has 53 wins with 6 games left. Minnesota and OKC each have won 52 games so their win totals will exceed Denver's last season.

This season, Draymond has missed a lot of games and he's made a huge difference since returning from suspension. But according to you guys, Klay is the biggest reason we have a poor record, not anyone else.

It's not better competition or missed games by Green. It's all Klay. Otherwise they should have 46 wins already.

Obviously Wiggins’ awful early season form, Green’s suspension and latterly Curry’s injury have been influential on results this season.

But are you saying Klay can still defend as he did in his prime, and that he is also a good rebounder ?.

He is obviously still a useful player as a scorer particularly on a good night, but the issue people who don’t blame everything on him have is Kerr playing him as if he was still 2019 Klay prior to the ACL injury, and with the best will in the world he simply isn’t that guy any more. He can no longer take the opposition’s best guard defensively and reduce the defensive load on Curry, and can’t be a member of a small ball death squad. Sure play him as a closer if he is having a good shooting night, although he tends to be a little tired by then regardless, and if the team is behind and needs shooting, but the problem has been losing games at the death after gaining leads, and I don’t see how playing a guy who can’t defend or rebound is helpful in that circumstance.

[michaelm]

Now, timpf sees a path for the Warriors on the back of defense to do some damage in the playoffs. Same thing most have been saying all year. Play the defense guys, we win. Play multiple poor defense guys and we mostly lose.

I also saw some different scheming during this streak that was different from the start of the year. Did we get a new AC recently?

That’s the thing. The great GSW teams were great defensively, even KD contributed to that and played more and better defense at GSW than he had previously, and offense flowed from defense. Kerr seems to have forgotten that, or perhaps the coaches who were responsible for the defensive side of things are gone.

[superunknown]

5 more.

That would make them 46-29 instead of 41-34, 17 games over .500 instead of just 7 games over .500.

Just under the Clippers so ahead of Mavs and Pelicans.

Warriors have played the most clutch games in the league, 44 of them including tonight. They are 22 and 22.

Interesting stats, seems like the clutch games record reflect different reasons why a team has the clutch record it has:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-traditional?PerMode=Totals&dir=A&sort=MIN

Bulls are ranked first, probably based on winning percentage and most number of clutch games played. Their stats show great shooting as a team, 48/38.5/82.1.

Warriors on the other hand haven't shot that well as a team in the 44 clutch games, 43.6/34.9/81.5. But look at the different kinds of shots made. Warriors took and made more 3 pointers than any other team. But the Bulls shot and made a lot of FTs, almost double the Warriors FTAs and FTMs.

Maybe Klay shot us out of those games. But likely we have to look at the several of the games, the opponents, which may include more good defensive teams.

There's no way to know of course, but 5 more wins is a huge difference in results. Last season, Warriors won 44 total games, which made them #6 in the WC.

It is possible for the Warriors to equal or exceed that win total this season, just winning 3 or 4 out of the remaining 7 games. But they'd likely still be #10 seed, not #6 seed. Curry played fewer games last season because of injuries. Wiggins also missed a lot of games too.

But if not for Klay, they'd already have 46 wins, 2 more than all of last season, according to you.

Or maybe, the WC is much stronger . For instance, Denver won 53 games last season on the way to their title. This season, Denver already has 53 wins with 6 games left. Minnesota and OKC each have won 52 games so their win totals will exceed Denver's last season.

This season, Draymond has missed a lot of games and he's made a huge difference since returning from suspension. But according to you guys, Klay is the biggest reason we have a poor record, not anyone else.

It's not better competition or missed games by Green. It's all Klay. Otherwise they should have 46 wins already.

Obviously Wiggins’ awful early season form, Green’s suspension and latterly Curry’s injury have been influential on results this season.

But are you saying Klay can still defend as he did in his prime, and that he is also a good rebounder ?.

He is obviously still a useful player as a scorer particularly on a good night, but the issue people who don’t blame everything on him have is Kerr playing him as if he was still 2019 Klay prior to the ACL injury, and with the best will in the world he simply isn’t that guy any more. He can no longer take the opposition’s best guard defensively and reduce the defensive load on Curry, and can’t be a member of a small ball death squad. Sure play him as a closer if he is having a good shooting night, although he tends to be a little tired by then regardless, and if the team is behind and needs shooting, but the problem has been losing games at the death after gaining leads, and I don’t see how playing a guy who can’t defend or rebound is helpful in that circumstance.

it's not just he can't defend and rebound which already should prevent kerr playing him big mins, especially down the stretch and late in games. he doesn't box out! and sometimes gives up on plays.

[svart]

OK, here's my 2 cents:

Of course Klay isn't the only reason we have this record today, there were several:
1. kerr and his refusal to adapt or play the younglings and his obsession with klay no matter what
2. dray's antics
3. Wiggs condition to start the season. If you remember, he didn't even dunked. that made m think mybe he was still recovering
4. klay. his refusal to adjust, his egotistical attitude (i won't loose sleep because they booed, his pouting when we were wining with him on the bench, his bad shot selection, giving up on plays on defense ).
i'm not taking into consideration the trade deadline, not sure there was really something to make us better.
Now, 2 and 3 are solved, and partially 1 (kuminga plays, so does TJD and podz, saric is out of the rotation, loon's minute are reduced)

Which leaves us with only one big problem to solve: kerr not being able to adjust klay's minutes or making him accountable.

this is why everyone is against klay, it's not hate. we all want to win, and the biggest issue now is klay, like it or not. he disrupts the defense, still takes bad stupid shots, his passing is not there even if he tries, and he still give up on plays. and of course kerr is behaving like it's nothing wrong with it, he is still starting and closing, despite the fact h was very effective coming from the bench. this is why everyone gets upset, imo.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

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Just look at loon and wiggins rotating and helping. They were the defense on this play. Only if loom had tjds athleticism.

This isn’t a great example of team defence. We were scrambling and Luka inexplicably passed up a wide open 3. They had us on a string and Dallas made 1 pass too many.

In actual fact, Klay plays a pretty good defensive possession as does Looney.
Klay doesn’t over rotate when he sees Looney has Washington covered and then doesn’t leave the corner 3 point shooter on the drive. He then closes out on Luka with Loon…. (I think I just threw up in my mouth just typing that!)

You are not supposed to say anything good about Klay on this board.
If Klay has a good game like he did a few games ago then critisize Klay’s hair.