KLAY needs the come off the bench PERIOD.

[gswhoop]

No matter who’s missing in the staring lineup, Klay and the bench need to stay in tact. We’ve got a good rhythm with CP-Klay-TJD anchoring the major bench roles.

So if Wiggins or Podz or both are out, Kerr needs to plug in players like quinones or GP2 to fill in the starting spots. Klay and Steph are no longer optimal playing next to each other for longer stretches of time so it would be good to just have role players who can defend better to start the game. This way our bench is able to a keep us in the game.

[jozef]

Klay needs TJD in starting lineup. Warriors need them both there to compete with the best teams.

[KevinMcreynolds]

Would be great if he came off the bench for a different team

[CDM_Stats]

Would be great if he came off the bench for a different team

Hate seeing a guy who played so well for us thought of in this manner, but truth is.. he kinda deserves it. I can forgive the skills falling off and forgive him forcing shots because he's pressing

But I've never seen a guy quit on so many plays during a season and not get his ass chewed out about it. Seems like he only gives max effort when things are going well for him personally and I have a hard time respecting that

[gswhoop]

He’s got a different demeanor coming off the bench vs starting. Kerr needs to do quit playing mind games with him.

[michaelm]

Klay needs TJD in starting lineup. Warriors need them both there to compete with the best teams.

So Wiggins to the bench and JK at SF ?. Or Green to the bench ?. (EDIT I see from the other thread you want to bring JK off the bench. That could possibly work but would not please JK himself and unlikely to happen even if worth a try).

[gswhoop]

Klay needs TJD in starting lineup. Warriors need them both there to compete with the best teams.

So Wiggins to the bench and JK at SF ?. Or Green to the bench ?. (EDIT I see from the other thread you want to bring JK off the bench. That could possibly work but would not please JK himself and unlikely to happen even if worth a try.

We don’t need TJD starting. Curry opens up the lanes for Kuminga and dray facilitates and swings the ball across. Klay TJD CP can all play the traditional post/lob/3ball game with Klay being the volume scorer.

[Coxy]

He should actually embrace the Manu Ginobili role now. He might get a few more years not having to guard young guys from the beginning of games.

[michaelm]

Klay needs TJD in starting lineup. Warriors need them both there to compete with the best teams.

So Wiggins to the bench and JK at SF ?. Or Green to the bench ?. (EDIT I see from the other thread you want to bring JK off the bench. That could possibly work but would not please JK himself and unlikely to happen even if worth a try.

We don’t need TJD starting. Curry opens up the lanes for Kuminga and dray facilitates and swings the ball across. Klay TJD CP can all play the traditional post/lob/3ball game with Klay being the volume scorer.

I am a big TJD fan but wouldn’t necessarily start him myself. I just wondered what Josef’s plan was with Klay, and JK off the bench which I hadn’t considered is perhaps a possible way/the only way it might work. I still think the hit the defence takes is too great with Klay as a starter and agree he is best as a scorer off the bench.

[Nvnervous45]

Klay is a j.j Redick or kyle Korner at this point in his career. The guy can't guard a stop sign.
I'll take the starting lineup of:
Curry
Podz
Wiggins
Kuminga
Dray

With the bench of:
Paul
GpII
Thompson
Moody
Tjd

Saric and looney can lump it.

[jozef]

So Wiggins to the bench and JK at SF ?. Or Green to the bench ?. (EDIT I see from the other thread you want to bring JK off the bench. That could possibly work but would not please JK himself and unlikely to happen even if worth a try.

We don’t need TJD starting. Curry opens up the lanes for Kuminga and dray facilitates and swings the ball across. Klay TJD CP can all play the traditional post/lob/3ball game with Klay being the volume scorer.

I am a big TJD fan but wouldn’t necessarily start him myself. I just wondered what Josef’s plan was with Klay, and JK off the bench which I hadn’t considered is perhaps a possible way/the only way it might work. I still think the hit the defence takes is too great with Klay as a starter and agree he is best as a scorer off the bench.

It is not about pleasing JK. JK and Dray are too small for best teams. JK is at his best when attacking the rim in the early offense, he is not any special in screen system. JK (at PF) could fill Shaun Livingston role of being bench go-to guy.
Podz cannot shoot over people in a fashion a SG should be able to do. The releasing point is not high enough in comparison with Klay, Moody (or DiVincenzo). Mostly he is forced to dribbling and find a way to score on layup but these moves are more suited for PG. I like his defense, he rotates as mad but I see Klay as a still solid defender versus SG and SF (not PF!).
We need TJD starting cause he is the best vertical offensive and defensive option there with his size and leap. By far.

[michaelm]

We don’t need TJD starting. Curry opens up the lanes for Kuminga and dray facilitates and swings the ball across. Klay TJD CP can all play the traditional post/lob/3ball game with Klay being the volume scorer.

I am a big TJD fan but wouldn’t necessarily start him myself. I just wondered what Josef’s plan was with Klay, and JK off the bench which I hadn’t considered is perhaps a possible way/the only way it might work. I still think the hit the defence takes is too great with Klay as a starter and agree he is best as a scorer off the bench.

It is not about pleasing JK. JK and Dray are too small for best teams. JK is at his best when attacking the rim in the early offense, he is not any special in screen system. JK (at PF) could fill Shaun Livingston role of being bench go-to guy.
Podz cannot shoot over people in a fashion a SG should be able to do. The releasing point is not high enough in comparison with Klay, Moody (or DiVincenzo). Mostly he is forced to dribbling and find a way to score on layup but these moves are more suited for PG. I like his defense, he rotates as mad but I see Klay as a still solid defender versus SG and SF (not PF!).
We need TJD starting cause he is the best vertical offensive and defensive option there with his size and leap. By far.

I am certainly not opposed to TJD as center. The question most have is whether Klay as a starter can provide enough defense against opposition starting SGs and SFs, and how much defensive load there is on Curry if he starts next to him. I guess Moody will never be the shooter even current Klay is, probably not the volume at least, but a little more playing time/development before now might have been in order.

[jozef]

I do not remember SG/SF killing Klay. With TJD at C and Dray at PF and Wiggins at SF there is enough help defense and rim protection cause they are all regular size for their position. Both Klay and Steph would be safe.

[weekend_warrior]

He should actually embrace the Manu Ginobili role now. He might get a few more years not having to guard young guys from the beginning of games.

Are we talking age 37 onwards Ginobili here? Because for the younger one I really don't see a comparison. Ginobili was an insanely well-rounded and skilled player that had tremendous impact. Klay lives (lived) off his ability to get free by using screens and his on-ball defense. Neither is still at high level. There is no fix to this, you can only limit the damage by reducing the playing time.

[watch1958]

He should actually embrace the Manu Ginobili role now. He might get a few more years not having to guard young guys from the beginning of games.

Are we talking age 37 onwards Ginobili here? Because for the younger one I really don't see a comparison. Ginobili was an insanely well-rounded and skilled player that had tremendous impact. Klay lives (lived) off his ability to get free by using screens and his on-ball defense. Neither is still at high level. There is no fix to this, you can only limit the damage by reducing the playing time.

Podz reminds me of a poor man’s Manu a lot more than Klay does.

[TB]

A little off topic but historically Manu sort of reminds me of Draymond. Throw away the box scores and physical attributes and highlights and I'm ranking them higher in the PF/SG lists than most.

For example it seems mostly accepted that bigs like Brow, Gasol, Howard, then maybe LMA and Webber types are after Charles/KG/Dirk level guys. But I'll take Dray over anyone in that first group in terms of impact and career... or at the very least he should be mentioned in the group with Brow/Gasol.

Same situation for Manu with SGs... after that eras Kobe/Wade duo, most will rank guys like Iverson, Ray Allen, Vince, T-Mac and more recently maybe Harden then Klay types. Manu probably gets listed more with the Klay range of players, but I'm taking him over anyone other than Kobe and Wade if I need to win a game.

[Nvnervous45]

I get it, klay is 6-7 and you want his height out there. But klay's extra 4 inches (insert joke here) isn't going to make any difference because he can't jump anymore because of a tore up knee. The last time I saw him dunk was 3 years ago in Toronto.
Podz finds ways to get shots off because he is crafty and uses ball fakes and movement to get open. Podz is quicker than klay and a better passer, I might add to find the open man. Podz defense is underrated as he is a smart player and gets steals through anticipation, neither of which were klay's strong suits even in his heyday.

[TB]

Klay's size still gets him open shots over smaller guards. And playing 3/4 he can get open against bigger players with motion. I dont worry about his offensive role that much outside of just limiting it if he's not shooting well since that tanks other aspects of our team.

I even think his size/athleticism could in theory still work on the defensive end because he does have the ability to guard bigger players 1v1 and funnel guards where they need to go. The problem is now that he's lost his ability to stay in front, he shows zero ability/effort to recover/rotate when beat. And thats not even getting to the help defense and rebounding issues.

Which leads us to the reality of it: If Klay isn't going to adapt to being a 100% mentally/physically engaged defensive player... his minutes have to be limited to a role off the bench that is determined by his microwave scoring ability. We just can't tank the start of a game or close of a game if he isn't on fire shooting. And thats fine, still a valuable role for us if Kerr sticks to it.

[jozef]

Klay's size still gets him open shots over smaller guards. And playing 3/4 he can get open against bigger players with motion.

I even think his size/athleticism could in theory still work on the defensive end because he does have the ability to guard bigger players 1v1 and funnel guards where they need to go. The problem is now that he's lost his ability to stay in front, he shows zero ability/effort to recover/rotate when beat. And thats not even getting to the help defense and rebounding issues.

Opponent do not defend Klay with their 4. They put second best perimeter defender on him (the best one is on Steph).

He still has solid ability to stay in front, just look around the league. He has zero ability to rotate in the role of "big" man. He cannnot defend Zion or Aaron Gordon. He cannot rebound with them. But no shooting guard will outrebounded him.

I challenge you all to find any sample of his bad defense versus SGs. Give him TJD who has 37 blocks and he is championship shooting guard. But to whom should he funnel opponent if second player with most blocks is Dray with 32 and do you know who is third in blocks? Klay with 27... Sad reality.
That's the result of small lineups and unathletic centers.

[Coxy]

He should actually embrace the Manu Ginobili role now. He might get a few more years not having to guard young guys from the beginning of games.

Are we talking age 37 onwards Ginobili here? Because for the younger one I really don't see a comparison. Ginobili was an insanely well-rounded and skilled player that had tremendous impact. Klay lives (lived) off his ability to get free by using screens and his on-ball defense. Neither is still at high level. There is no fix to this, you can only limit the damage by reducing the playing time.

I wasn’t comparing them.