General discussion - 2018 season

transplant · Post #1 » by **transplant** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 pm

Figured we needed one of these going forward.

So Matt Nagy has his 3 coordinators in place before the second round of the playoffs begin: DC Fangio, OC Helfrich and STC Tabor. Fangio and Tabor are experienced NFL coordinators with good reputations. Helfrich hasn't worked in the NFL, but has HC experience at the college level and is a respected offensive mind. IMO, if you have a serious problem with any of these hires, I'd love to know why. For a first-time NFL HC, I think Nagy (and Pace) have done a remarkable job in record time.

According to the Bears website, the team is retaining Ed Donatell DBs, Jay Rodgers (D-line), Glenn Pires (LBs), Brandon Staley (OLBs) and Roy Anderson (Asst. DBs) from Fangio's 2017 defensive staff.

On offense, only Dave Ragone (QBs) and Ben Wilkerson (Asst. OL) are being retained from Dowell Loggains staff. This could change, but this is how it looks now.

Harry Hiestand, a kind of legendary OL coach will handle the OL for the Bears. Huge hire.

Charles London is the RBs coach. He held the same position with the Houston Texans.

Mike Furrey is the RECs coach. He was a NFL WR for 8 years and coached college ball.

Kevin Gilbride Jr. is the TEs coach. If you're a little older (like me), you'll remember that Buddy Ryan once punched his dad on national TV when they were coordinators for the Houston Oilers back in '93. Oh, that Buddy was a firey one. Jr. was the TEs coach for the Giants prior to joining the Bears.

As with the main coordinators, this looks like a pretty strong staff to me.

Axxo · Post #2 » by **Axxo** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:00 pm

transplant wrote:Figured we needed one of these going forward.

So Matt Nagy has his 3 coordinators in place before the second round of the playoffs begin: DC Fangio, OC Helfrich and STC Tabor. Fangio and Tabor are experienced NFL coordinators with good reputations. Helfrich hasn't worked in the NFL, but has HC experience at the college level and is a respected offensive mind. IMO, if you have a serious problem with any of these hires, I'd love to know why. For a first-time NFL HC, I think Nagy (and Pace) have done a remarkable job in record time.

According to the Bears website, the team is retaining Ed Donatell DBs, Jay Rodgers (D-line), Glenn Pires (LBs), Brandon Staley (OLBs) and Roy Anderson (Asst. DBs) from Fangio's 2017 defensive staff.

On offense, only Dave Ragone (QBs) and Ben Wilkerson (Asst. OL) are being retained from Dowell Loggains staff. This could change, but this is how it looks now.

Harry Hiestand, a kind of legendary OL coach will handle the OL for the Bears. Huge hire.

Charles London is the RBs coach. He held the same position with the Houston Texans.

Mike Furrey is the RECs coach. He was a NFL WR for 8 years and coached college ball.

Kevin Gilbride Jr. is the TEs coach. If you're a little older (like me), you'll remember that Buddy Ryan once punched his dad on national TV when they were coordinators for the Houston Oilers back in '93. Oh, that Buddy was a firey one. Jr. was the TEs coach for the Giants prior to joining the Bears.

As with the main coordinators, this looks like a pretty strong staff to me.

The doubt I have is the OC hire. Its unclear as to what his role actually is. I get the "being diverse and fresh perspective" angle. Just think they could have gotten that in a candidate with NFL experience. Someone who actually knows what typically works and doesn't work at the NFL level. I was hoping for a staff combination that would hit the ground running. This looks like the leadership on the offensive side is green and needs more time to grow into their roles. I can only speculate just those who like all of the hires. Everyone is in wait and see mode right now i just dont see them hitting the ground running. And being year 4 of the rebuild I think at least a wildcard slot should be the floor.

Susan · Post #3 » by **Susan** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:00 pm

Listened to a quick interview with a KC blogger about their offense and it appears Nagy had added some spread offense concepts to the West Coast offense that Reid has always run. It's clear based on both personnel and coaching that this is what the Bears want to do. Howard came from IU who's a spread offense team, Mitch was a spread option QB at NC and the top dual threat QB coming out of HS and Cohen is as about a versatile weapon as you can get right now in the game.

Love where this coaching staff is going though. No system works without a great offensive line and Hiestand is a beast. No system works without the talent either but I'm confident that they're going to be able to develop Mitch, Howard, Cohen and Shaheen into above average playmakers. Can't wait to see what they do with the WR core and the o-line here.

The defense can finally take another step into elite territory if they just add 1-2 more playmakers. I think our safeties are going to be here for a long time. We need to add more depth at the edge rusher position and I think we see Bullard make a step forward this year. Interesting to see what they do with the CBs and I wouldn't mind them franchise tagging Fuller.

It's pretty clear, we need a Kicker, 2x WR, 2x CB, some young o-linemen and 2x edge rushers. We have nearly $70m in cap space if we cut Sims, Glennon, Wheaton and Cooper (play around with our cap space here http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/chicago-bears/ ) and we have a top 10 pick to boot. Wouldn't mind them picking an elite o-linemen, edge rusher or CB with that top pick or even trade back to get even draft capital.

transplant · Post #4 » by **transplant** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:03 pm

The Bears could do worse than signing Amukamara and Fuller. I like both and that would give us a secondary I'd be more than comfortable with.

In the draft, go with BPA and trade down if you aren't excited about what's there at #8.

As for what we should expect record-wise next season, it's too early for me. The Bears are in a tough division and they figure to be underdogs in all 6 of those games.

Axxo · Post #5 » by **Axxo** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:27 pm

transplant wrote:The Bears could do worse than signing Amukamara and Fuller. I like both and that would give us a secondary I'd be more than comfortable with.

In the draft, go with BPA and trade down if you aren't excited about what's there at #8.

As for what we should expect record-wise next season, it's too early for me. The Bears are in a tough division and they figure to be underdogs in all 6 of those games.

Have they finalized the QB coach position?

transplant · Post #6 » by **transplant** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:16 am

Axxo wrote:
transplant wrote:The Bears could do worse than signing Amukamara and Fuller. I like both and that would give us a secondary I'd be more than comfortable with.

In the draft, go with BPA and trade down if you aren't excited about what's there at #8.

As for what we should expect record-wise next season, it's too early for me. The Bears are in a tough division and they figure to be underdogs in all 6 of those games.

Have they finalized the QB coach position?

Not sure. The Bears website has Ragone as QB coach, but it's not set in stone.

Axxo · Post #7 » by **Axxo** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:40 pm

In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

patryk7754 · Post #8 » by **patryk7754** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 pm

Axxo wrote:In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

Yes. A lot of the teams not in the Playoffs also had their QB injured. Packers, Cardinals, Texans, and the Colts off the top of my head. Now look at the teams that should be great but have no QB. The Broncos are the most complete team in the NFL but dont have the QB. And look at the 49ers pre and post Jimmy G.

Axxo · Post #9 » by **Axxo** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:15 pm

patryk7754 wrote:
Axxo wrote:In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

Yes. A lot of the teams not in the Playoffs also had their QB injured. Packers, Cardinals, Texans, and the Colts off the top of my head. Now look at the teams that should be great but have no QB. The Broncos are the most complete team in the NFL but dont have the QB. And look at the 49ers pre and post Jimmy G.

Thats true, just wondering tho b/c the Saints had their starting QB, Steelers had theirs as did ATL. All lost to teams without a top tier QB.

Red Larrivee · Post #10 » by **Red Larrivee** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:35 am

Axxo wrote:In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

In terms of sustainable, long-term success...yes.

Tom Brady gets you to a Super Bowl every year even when your defense is suspect.

Foles, Keenum and Bortles can in a Rex Grossman and Trent Dilfer sort of way. Where, your job is simply not to mess up what an elite defense and capable run game brings you. But, this isn't sustainable because eventually your QB has to make plays, and a lot of them.

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transplant · Post #11 » by **transplant** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:05 am

Axxo wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:
Axxo wrote:In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

Yes. A lot of the teams not in the Playoffs also had their QB injured. Packers, Cardinals, Texans, and the Colts off the top of my head. Now look at the teams that should be great but have no QB. The Broncos are the most complete team in the NFL but dont have the QB. And look at the 49ers pre and post Jimmy G.

Thats true, just wondering tho b/c the Saints had their starting QB, Steelers had theirs as did ATL. All lost to teams without a top tier QB.

While the Jaguars, Eagles and Vikings don't have big rep QBs, they got very good QB play this past weekend. If Foles and Keenum had played like typical backups, their teams would have lost. Same is true if Bortles had played down to his national reputation.

What can you say...it was a good week for no-name quarterbacks.

CjayC · Post #12 » by **CjayC** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:19 pm

Axxo wrote:In the playoffs, three of the 4 QBs competing are not top tier QBs. If any team other than the Patriots win the SB, is having a franchise level QB still the single most important need in the NFL?

Easily. Don't get me wrong you need the right combination of good QB play and defense to make it far. Bortles and Keenum are punching above their weight and doing very well right now, despite not having the best reputations among the media or their peers. Brady looks like the exception. Their D has been opportunistic, but I wouldn't ever say they were good or even above average, but they're still there every year.

Looking back at prior final 4's most of those teams have above average to elite QB play AND pretty solid to elite defenses. Old Manning, Flacco, and Kaepernick look to be the only exceptions recently; Kap was on a upwards trajectory back then anyways, Flacco is decisively average over his career but has consistently raised his play in the playoffs, and even though Manning was old he's still probably one of the smartest ever and he checked into some good run plays that Superbowl.

patryk7754 · Post #13 » by **patryk7754** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:57 pm

transplant wrote:
Axxo wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:Yes. A lot of the teams not in the Playoffs also had their QB injured. Packers, Cardinals, Texans, and the Colts off the top of my head. Now look at the teams that should be great but have no QB. The Broncos are the most complete team in the NFL but dont have the QB. And look at the 49ers pre and post Jimmy G.

Thats true, just wondering tho b/c the Saints had their starting QB, Steelers had theirs as did ATL. All lost to teams without a top tier QB.

While the Jaguars, Eagles and Vikings don't have big rep QBs, they got very good QB play this past weekend. If Foles and Keenum had played like typical backups, their teams would have lost. Same is true if Bortles had played down to his national reputation.

What can you say...it was a good week for no-name quarterbacks.

also important to note, outrageously dominate defenses.

transplant · Post #14 » by **transplant** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:13 pm

Shortly after his first Bears press conference, Nagy was asked whether he thought it was reasonable to EXPECT that the Bears would make the playoffs next season. He said no. Since then, Nagy has been roundly criticized for this statement.

I appreciate his honesty and can't see how a reasonable person could have answered differently.

The Falcons, Rams, Panthers, Saints, Eagles and Vikings made the playoffs in the NFC. Do you EXPECT the Bears to pass any of these teams next season? I don't. Dallas, Detroit and Seattle were good teams who fell just short of the playoffs. Do you EXPECT that the Bears will be better than ALL of these teams. With Rodgers healthy, are you confident that the Bears will beat be better than them? Are the Bears better than even money to be better than the Niners?

So when Nagy, before free agency or the draft, says that he wouldn't say it's reasonable to expect the Bears to make the playoffs next season, is he being cowardly or reasonable?

The media and some fans say they want honesty until they get it. Does anyone believe that Nagy won't work his ass off to make the Bears as good as they can be? Why isn't that enough?

Susan · Post #15 » by **Susan** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:30 pm

transplant wrote:Shortly after his first Bears press conference, Nagy was asked whether he thought it was reasonable to EXPECT that the Bears would make the playoffs next season. He said no. Since then, Nagy has been roundly criticized for this statement.

I appreciate his honesty and can't see how a reasonable person could have answered differently.

The Falcons, Rams, Panthers, Saints, Eagles and Vikings made the playoffs in the NFC. Do you EXPECT the Bears to pass any of these teams next season? I don't. Dallas, Detroit and Seattle were good teams who fell just short of the playoffs. Do you EXPECT that the Bears will be better than ALL of these teams. With Rodgers healthy, are you confident that the Bears will beat be better than them? Are the Bears better than even money to be better than the Niners?

So when Nagy, before free agency or the draft, says that he wouldn't say it's reasonable to expect the Bears to make the playoffs next season, is he being cowardly or reasonable?

The media and some fans say they want honesty until they get it. Does anyone believe that Nagy won't work his ass off to make the Bears as good as they can be? Why isn't that enough?

It sounds better to say "we're going to under promise and over-deliver" but when you actually under promise, the media destroys you.

transplant · Post #16 » by **transplant** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:43 pm

Susan wrote:
transplant wrote:Shortly after his first Bears press conference, Nagy was asked whether he thought it was reasonable to EXPECT that the Bears would make the playoffs next season. He said no. Since then, Nagy has been roundly criticized for this statement.

I appreciate his honesty and can't see how a reasonable person could have answered differently.

The Falcons, Rams, Panthers, Saints, Eagles and Vikings made the playoffs in the NFC. Do you EXPECT the Bears to pass any of these teams next season? I don't. Dallas, Detroit and Seattle were good teams who fell just short of the playoffs. Do you EXPECT that the Bears will be better than ALL of these teams. With Rodgers healthy, are you confident that the Bears will beat be better than them? Are the Bears better than even money to be better than the Niners?

So when Nagy, before free agency or the draft, says that he wouldn't say it's reasonable to expect the Bears to make the playoffs next season, is he being cowardly or reasonable?

The media and some fans say they want honesty until they get it. Does anyone believe that Nagy won't work his ass off to make the Bears as good as they can be? Why isn't that enough?

It sounds better to say "we're going to under promise and over-deliver" but when you actually under promise, the media destroys you.

Yeah, thats a quality cliche. I'll be interested to see if someone from PR feeds that one to him. As for me, Nagy's "no" worked fine.

Axxo · Post #17 » by **Axxo** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:51 pm

Did anyone see how the Patriots blew up the RPO the Jags were using in the 2nd half? Thats the same direction the Bears are moving toward for the offense.

patryk7754 · Post #18 » by **patryk7754** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:23 pm

After last years season Alston said the bears would go to the super bowl. He was kinda right.

patryk7754 · Post #19 » by **patryk7754** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:24 pm

Axxo wrote:Did anyone see how the Patriots blew up the RPO the Jags were using in the 2nd half? Thats the same direction the Bears are moving toward for the offense.

The eagles use the RPO to get to the super bowl

Post #20 » by **City of Trees** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:43 pm

patryk7754 wrote:
Axxo wrote:Did anyone see how the Patriots blew up the RPO the Jags were using in the 2nd half? Thats the same direction the Bears are moving toward for the offense.

The eagles use the RPO to get to the super bowl

RPO with a scrub QB = Fail

Foles has proven he can get hot and light it up. Bortles is a scrub.

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