Let's talk some Cleveland Browns Football

[TheOUTLAW]

C'mon Browns fans. This is what I've been waiting for

Where my dawgs at???

[B Mac]

This is me trying really hard not to LOL at you. Who let the Dawgs out???

[TheOUTLAW]

That's okay laugh at me. While I like the Cavs (grew up with them and all) I love the Browns. I live and die with them.

[Rise Against]

Outty, I never knew you used slang words.

[L&H_05]

Since they're something like 6 Cavs fans on Realgm which I'm assuming are all Browns fans ?? I guess we travel in small pacts..

[B Mac]

Looks like we'll be seeing A LOT more of each other all over the place, huh fellas? I assume that there will be some fans from other bball teams that are fans of the Browns and the Indians so maybe we'll get to talk with a few fresh faces at least.

[TheOUTLAW]

And a whole new group of trolls and assorted haters to deal with

[LoveThemCavs]

First let me just say... PLEASE GOD DON'T LET US TAKE BRADY QUINN. Now that that's out of the way. Good to see you guys again. Not expecting a great year once again, but hopeful of a respectable team this year. I'm thinkin 8-8 would be good enough until we get some more parts. I don't think this years schedule is as tough as last years either.

[gflem]

AP in the first, and hopefully staley in the 2nd would go a long way toward making the browns o respectable.

[Gordon Bombay]

i also think 8-8 would be great for this team

hopefully they get ap in the draft and not brady quinn

[Smooth32]

i also think 8-8 would be great for this team

I'd take 6-10 even... 7-9 would be nice... 8-8 would be like winning the Super Bowl...

not brady quinn

Care to explain?

[Gordon Bombay]

-= original quote snipped =-



Care to explain?

Id really prefer them not to take a qb in the first round because i believe we have serviceable qbs in frye and anderson if we can get other pieces around them (notably a line and a running game, which we didnt have either last year). i guess id just like them to go after other needs before we go after another first round qb

Also brady didn't win a big game in his entire career. granted that may be because his team wasnt as good but he still didnt lead his team to victory in any of those games (really only came close in that game against usc). im just a little concerned about trusting him with the game on the line

oh 8-8 would be like winning the super bowl. i think last years 4-12 performance was because of the team's youth and the schedule was just brutal last season but i also think the 6-10 performance was due in part because of a weak schedule the previous season.

butch davis left this team in such a ruined state and i think if we can get back to 6-7 wins for this season, we will be looking great for 08. im hoping for a few things to go our way for once in the history of the franchise and maybe we can get an 8-8 record

[Smooth32]

Id really prefer them not to take a qb in the first round because i believe we have serviceable qbs in frye and anderson if we can get other pieces around them (notably a line and a running game, which we didnt have either last year). i guess id just like them to go after other needs before we go after another first round qb

I'd love to think that Frye is the one, but as much I'd love to see him succeed you've got to realize that he's nothing more than a fringe starter/good backup and the same with Anderson (although I think Anderson is a better quarterback than Frye)...

Frye has the moxie, attitude, and work ethic that you want in your starting quarterback, there's no denying that... The kid is a tough son of a gun who never quits and I love that...

But at the same time his decision making and carelessness with the ball are two huge things that are keeping him from being a good quarterback in this league... Too many times last year did he hang onto the ball for too long or take poor care of it... I mean I understand that he never quit on a play and tried to make things happened but sometimes you've got to learn to take the sack and go on with the next down... He tried to do much and that's what hurt him...

As far as his decision making...it was terrible... He threw balls into bad coverage, never looked off his first receiver and constantly telegraphed his throws... Those three things are why he threw so many INT's...

His accuracy is pretty good, but I think it's so high because we didn't take many shots down the field with the offense focusing on short, intermediate throws...

His arm strength is a another concern of mine but he showed a decent arm last season...

Overall I just don't think he has what it takes to get this team where they need to be.. It's nice and all he's a hometown hero and grew up around here but when you have a chance to get a franchise quarterback, you take it... Quarterback is the single most important position on the football field whether it be Pee-Wee football or the NFL...

Also brady didn't win a big game in his entire career. granted that may be because his team wasnt as good but he still didnt lead his team to victory in any of those games (really only came close in that game against usc). im just a little concerned about trusting him with the game on the line

Something I wrote over on another board:





1st Misconception = He can't perform in big games

First of all I'd like to mention that Notre Dame had the 61st ranked rush defense in the nation that allowed 136.8 yards per game... Then on top of it they allowed 203.38 yards per game which ranked 60th in the nation... Overall they were ranked 65th in the nation... If you want to take it even further they gave up 23.8 points per game which was 67th in the nation...

So without Quinn getting a lot of help from his defense, it's kind of hard to win any games when your team is playing a good team... The Notre Dame defense flat out sucked and allowed 41 to Penn State, 47 to Michigan, 44 to USC, and 41 to LSU... So to expect for Brady Quinn to overcome his defense every single "big" game is kind of hard considering that all of those teams defenses were some of the best in college football...

And with the team giving up so much yardage and putting a lot of pressure on Quinn to carry them, the defense didn't do too much to help him by giving him more chances... The defense was 93rd worst forcing only 19 turnovers the whole season...

So the defense giving up so much yardage and not forcing turnovers limits Brady's chances to score...

Just a little factor that also played into big games, was that Notre Dame ranked 83rd worst in penalized yards per game at 53.46 yards penalized... So getting penalized doesn't help your teams chances...

On the offensive side of the ball Brady Quinn's great offensive line allowed 2.38 sacks per game which was 85th worst in the country... So considering the type of protection that he put up pretty good stats, passing wise...

Forcing even more pressure on Quinn the run offense was decent but wasn't all that... They were ranked 72nd and averaged 125 yards per game...

All in all Brady got no where near the help he needed to win those "big" games... And despite that he did pretty well in those big games... Take a look at his stats from the 4 big games:

Penn State: 25-36 | 287 yds | 69.4 comp. % | 3 TD's | 0 INT's | 163.9 QB Rating

Michigan: 24-48 | 234 yds | 50 comp. % | 3 TD's | 3 INT's (2 of which were tipped) | 99 QB Rating

USC: 22-45 | 274 yds | 48.9 comp. % | 3 TD's | 0 INT's | 122 QB Rating

LSU: 15-35 | 148 yds | 42.9 comp % | 2 TD's | 2 INT's | 85 QB Rating

Now granted he might not have done the best in the Michigan and LSU game he didn't put his team in position to lose and put up some pretty good stats on two of the best defenses in the country...

2nd Misconception = Brady isn't accurate

I've heard that on a couple of sites Brady's accuracy has been in question... Well he is actually a pretty accurate passer...

He threw at a 61.9 rate last season and 64.9 his junior season... Overall he has a 58 completion rate, which is pretty good considering he's been under Charlie Weis which has really helped him the past two years... The first two under Willingham, really hurt him...

What also goes along with accuracy is INT's...He's thrown 32 in his career at Notre Dame but 14 his last two seasons, 7 in each...

So overall he's a pretty accurate quarterback...

He's got it all

Some things to keep in mind when looking for a QB is 4 things (at least that's what Troy Aikman says) accuracy, toughness, intelligence, and intangibles... And I've have to agree with him...

I could careless if a guy could throw a ball 60 yards with a flick of a wrist or 50 from on his knees, but that doesn't mean he's going to be successful... If he can't place the ball successful or make the right throws, those long throws will turn into long interceptions...

Intelligence is one of the most important things... The ability to diagnose coverages, blitzes etc., are key in the NFL... If a quarterback can't identify those things, he's not going to be successful.. Picking on mismatches and picking up the teams plays are things that sets a great quarterback apart from a good quarterback...

The toughness of a guy can tell a lot... You can tell his competitiveness, attitude and leadership abilities... A guy who never quits, picks his guys up and sets the tone are all things you want in a franchise QB...

And finally intangibles... Brady is one of the hardest working guys you'll find... He'll work out in the weight room or be studying film to learn from his mistakes...

Because college stats say so! Duh!

In a report by ESPN's Draft guide, they did a study on the last 10 years QB's drafted and their success in the NFL... Well they came to a conclusion that there are two telling stats that could foretell how successful they would be (not the end all be all)... They were number of college starts and completion %...

Guys like Ryan Leaf started 24 games and had a completion rate of 54%, while Peyton started 45 college games and had a 63% completion rate, big difference...

As the list goes one guys like Phillip Rivers started 51 games, McNabb 49 and Palmer 45... While Jim Drunkenmiller started 24, Harrington 28 and Smith 19...

The numbers go on and list Roethlisberger had a 64 % completion rate, Rivers 64% and both Manning brothers had rate over 60% as did Brees, Leinart, Vince Young. Leaf and Drunkenmiller couldn't complete 55% of their passes. Harrington, Smith and Cade McNown barerly completed that while Kyle Boller barely didn't complete 50% of his passes...

Overall

If Quinn is sitting there at the #3 pick it'd be hard to pass up a franchise quarterback who could turn this franchise around... He's an Ohio born boy which is even better and was tutored by one of the best in Charlie Weis...

As of now it looks like Quinn is on the top of the Browns draft boards, but if Romeo wants to win now they may go with someone who could produce immediately like Adrian Peterson...

Let's hope they make the decision on the best for the team and overall, not the best bet to save a coaches job...

[Icness]

Good analysis of Quinn. IMO he's every bit as good as Matt Leinart was coming out last year and significantly better than Russell at this point.

Another thing I really respect about him is that ND stunk his freshman year and he stood strong and learned from it. He understands what it takes to turn a bad team into a good one, how to win, and how to lead.

[Smooth32]

IMO he's every bit as good as Matt Leinart was coming out last year and significantly better than Russell at this point.

Agreed...

I think he's going though the same phase that Matt Leinart went through with all the hype and then dropped when it came draft time..

[TheOUTLAW]

I'm not a fan of any of the QB's coming out this year. I'd much rather get Thomas this year than Quinn.

[Smooth32]

I'm not a fan of any of the QB's coming out this year. I'd much rather get Thomas this year than Quinn.

And I'd much rather get Sam Baker, Jake Long or Jared Gaither than Thomas...

We have a chance to get a franchise quarterback and we have to take advantage of it... The quarterback classes the next two years are no where they were the last two so if we want a quarterback for the future we better draft one this year or else our quarterback won't be in a good position for a while...

[Gordon Bombay]

how about we trade down with minnesota so they can pick up quinn with the third pick and we can pick ap with the seventh pick to go along with a few extra picks

[rjgraca]

IMO, this quarterback talk is all smoke. QB is the least of the Browns worrys. The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback which I am sure Browns GM Phil Savage remembers. I believe that both Savage and Crennel are in the win now mode and the Browns owner has never been that involved so I doubt that he would over rule them to take a young quarterback that will have little impact this season and will assure that Crennel is fired. Picking Quinn would amount to picking Coach again and leaving players like Ricky Williams on the board who had and would have had much more impact for the Browns.

The Browns would be better served taking Thomas or Peterson with the number 3 pick in terms of the impact this coming season. I am tired of waiting for next season to see some light at the end of the tunnel which would be the case it the Browns select Quinn. The Browns offensive line has improved, but not that much to protect a rookie like Quinn who isn't that mobile of a quarterback.

Picking a QB is roll of dice
Recent history says nearly as many chosen in first round of the draft fail as succeed

The 1999 draft was supposed to be the great quarterback draft.

Five guys, all supposedly can't-miss prospects, were first-round worthy. The '99 draft was compared with the great quarterback draft of 1983, which featured six picked in Round 1, including John Elway, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.

In 1999, five were picked in the first round, three in the top three picks.

Three are out of the league: Tim Couch, Akili Smith and Cade McNown.

A fourth -- Daunte Culpepper -- is teetering on the edge of being out.

And one is left -- Donovan McNabb.

That year illustrates the delicate nature of drafting a quarterback high, and no team understands that better than the Browns. Or at least no team should understand it better.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/col ... 082074.htm

[gflem]

anyone else think its curious that the browns signed a tight end today? it a good thing kellen is "ahead of schedule" on his rehab.

I would hate to think the team wouldnt have three tight ends available to start the season.