Game 6: Packers at Broncos - 3:25 - CBS

[MVP2110]

To clarify here, I'm not saying Love has been good or proven he'll be a starter in the NFL, if GB is in a position to be able to draft Caleb or Maye I would absolutely nab them. That said I think the people who are seemingly writing off Love are doing it way too quickly. We're 6 starts into the season and he's been not great but the circumstances around have been far from ideal this year and I think we can certainly see flashes. I'm very interested to see how he looks the rest of the season and would just caution anyone on making up their minds this early

[ReasonablySober]

I mean if you think a QB just dropping the ball on the ground is somehow not a bad thing more power to ya I guess.

I don't even think he lost the ball on the play. So my grade actually improves. Quick thinking and reflexes under pressure, that kid.

Yes he did recover the ball and made a nice throw if I recall correctly, but seperate from the throw anytime a player puts the ball on the ground that's a negative. Research has shown that when the ball hits the ground it's basically 50/50 on who recovers, in this case Love got a really lucky bounce as the ball literally bounced right back up to him but it could have just as easily bounced away from him and Chicago could have recovered. So PFFs grade takes away the luck of the bounce and purely grades Love for putting the ball on the ground

Yes, but why do you care? A random, once or twice in a season event. If you're looking at a grade to get an idea of a player's competence, don't you want stupid random, **** like that eliminated? Because I would. I liked PFF more when I thought they were grading actual useful stuff.

[MVP2110]

The one legit positive I have in this game, for the last few years MLF got a ton of flack for his teams quitting on him. They certainly don't do that this year.

[MVP2110]

I don't even think he lost the ball on the play. So my grade actually improves. Quick thinking and reflexes under pressure, that kid.

Yes he did recover the ball and made a nice throw if I recall correctly, but seperate from the throw anytime a player puts the ball on the ground that's a negative. Research has shown that when the ball hits the ground it's basically 50/50 on who recovers, in this case Love got a really lucky bounce as the ball literally bounced right back up to him but it could have just as easily bounced away from him and Chicago could have recovered. So PFFs grade takes away the luck of the bounce and purely grades Love for putting the ball on the ground

Yes, but why do you care? A random, once or twice in a season event. If you're looking at a grade to get an idea of a player's competence, don't you want stupid random, **** like that eliminated? Because I would. I liked PFF more when I thought they were grading actual useful stuff.

No I want them to grade the entire picture. If Love ends up losing that fumble that's a massive play in that game. He got lucky that time but what if luck went the other way. Every time Love puts the ball on the ground it should be graded as if he turned the ball over. Once a throw is made Love's portion of the play is over and I want to judge whether or not Love made a good throw regardless of if the WR caught it or not(ex the 1st TD to Doubs today was a bad throw and should be graded as such). I want Love to be graded on the good things he does and the bad things, and to try and parse that out from how the other individuals on the field are doing

[ReasonablySober]

Yes he did recover the ball and made a nice throw if I recall correctly, but seperate from the throw anytime a player puts the ball on the ground that's a negative. Research has shown that when the ball hits the ground it's basically 50/50 on who recovers, in this case Love got a really lucky bounce as the ball literally bounced right back up to him but it could have just as easily bounced away from him and Chicago could have recovered. So PFFs grade takes away the luck of the bounce and purely grades Love for putting the ball on the ground

Yes, but why do you care? A random, once or twice in a season event. If you're looking at a grade to get an idea of a player's competence, don't you want stupid random, **** like that eliminated? Because I would. I liked PFF more when I thought they were grading actual useful stuff.

No I want them to grade the entire picture. If Love ends up losing that fumble that's a massive play in that game. He got lucky that time but what if luck went the other way. Every time Love puts the ball on the ground it should be graded as if he turned the ball over. Once a throw is made Love's portion of the play is over and I want to judge whether or not Love made a good throw regardless of if the WR caught it or not(ex the 1st TD to Doubs today was a bad throw and should be graded as such). I want Love to be graded on the good things he does and the bad things, and to try and parse that out from how the other individuals on the field are doing

That's stupid, man. That mishandle meant absolutely nothing.

If PFF is going to come out with individual grades for every aspect of playing the position, I'd be all for it. Throws to the sideline, comebacks, throws in rhythm, rating by time spent in the pocket, out of the pocket, rating across the middle, percentage of throws to the checkdown...take your pick.

But all you see is his overall grade, rate it against others in the league ("he's actually been average!"), when they're taking stupid **** like a one-off mishand of the snap when accounting for his grade.

[M-C-G]

Yes, he had to zip it in there to beat the defender crossing over ready to either level Doubs or break up the pass. He hit an NFL receiver right on the hands and he couldn't haul it on. Seriously, what are you guys talking about?

Wrong. As usual he threw too late. If he released that ball sooner it's an easy TD.

Do you not see #0 just standing there between Love & Doubs that Love has to use a pump fake to clear a path for the throw? Or how else do you expect Love to get past the ball past him?

0 absolutely disrupted that play, it could have been a pick six if he threw it on the first set. Also I love Doubs but he had that right in both hands at the goal line. He **** up and Reed bailed him out.


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[ampd]

To clarify here, I'm not saying Love has been good or proven he'll be a starter in the NFL, if GB is in a position to be able to draft Caleb or Maye I would absolutely nab them. That said I think the people who are seemingly writing off Love are doing it way too quickly. We're 6 starts into the season and he's been not great but the circumstances around have been far from ideal this year and I think we can certainly see flashes. I'm very interested to see how he looks the rest of the season and would just caution anyone on making up their minds this early

I honestly don't think we've seen much in the way of flashes.

We have seen two of the big red flags that make QBs bust in the NFL on full display though - slow decision making and poor accuracy. He is consistently late getting the ball out on dropbacks, and he also has extremely poor accuracy when compared to the good starting QBs in the league, especially on intermediate and deep passes.

It's bad enough that it essentially takes things like fades and back shoulder throws completely out of the playbook because his accuracy is so bad our guys don't even have a chance at making a play on them.

I hope he puts it together, but if there's no improvement over the course of this season I really don't see what he's done at any point in his career to justify just getting handed a starting gig in the NFL other than Gute needs him to be good to justify reaching in the first round to pick him in an Amari Rodgers only this time it's the quarterback scenario.

[FAH1223]

To clarify here, I'm not saying Love has been good or proven he'll be a starter in the NFL, if GB is in a position to be able to draft Caleb or Maye I would absolutely nab them. That said I think the people who are seemingly writing off Love are doing it way too quickly. We're 6 starts into the season and he's been not great but the circumstances around have been far from ideal this year and I think we can certainly see flashes. I'm very interested to see how he looks the rest of the season and would just caution anyone on making up their minds this early

I honestly don't think we've seen much in the way of flashes.

We have seen two of the big red flags that make QBs bust in the NFL on full display though - slow decision making and poor accuracy. He is consistently late getting the ball out on dropbacks, and he also has extremely poor accuracy when compared to the good starting QBs in the league, especially on intermediate and deep passes.

It's bad enough that it essentially takes things like fades and back shoulder throws completely out of the playbook because his accuracy is so bad our guys don't even have a chance at making a play on them.

I hope he puts it together, but if there's no improvement over the course of this season I really don't see what he's done at any point in his career to justify just getting handed a starting gig in the NFL other than Gute needs him to be good to justify reaching in the first round to pick him in an Amari Rodgers only this time it's the quarterback scenario.

Accuracy and poor decision making are why Love was falling to the 2nd round on draft night until Gutekunst traded up.

A big QB with athleticism and great arm strength fell for that reason.

And for a kid with a strong arm, he is underthrowing guys routinely.

[MoMM]

I am still going to be patient, give it the entire year. But losing the last two games does not give me much faith in this team. I would not be opposed to losing out.

I am OK with giving him another year too, especially because we need a OL or a real WR1 to help the QB, so let's at least improve our OL and then draft a new QB if that's the case in 2025.

Let's say we continue to trend down and we get a Top3 pick, then we draft Harrison Jr, a OL in the 2nd and another playmaker with the other 2nd. If that doesn't work for Love in 2024, we draft a new QB.

[MoMM]

C'mon man, he's been horrendous for four games now and two of those games have come against two BAD teams. It's time to stop making excuses.

I'll trust unbiased metrics and those who have truly done deep dives into not only Love's play but the play of others.

First off, metrics are not without bias. How do you think Doubs bailing Love out on the first TD toss today registers in these numbers? That's all besides the point. The obvious answer is the answer here. You don't need a deep dive to see it.

Last four games:
82/141 58.1% 4 TDs, 7 picks

If anything, these "deep dives" are grasps at straws.

2 TDs and 8 picks, if not Doubs saving him and the lucky TD by Reed.

[MVP2110]

Yes, but why do you care? A random, once or twice in a season event. If you're looking at a grade to get an idea of a player's competence, don't you want stupid random, **** like that eliminated? Because I would. I liked PFF more when I thought they were grading actual useful stuff.

No I want them to grade the entire picture. If Love ends up losing that fumble that's a massive play in that game. He got lucky that time but what if luck went the other way. Every time Love puts the ball on the ground it should be graded as if he turned the ball over. Once a throw is made Love's portion of the play is over and I want to judge whether or not Love made a good throw regardless of if the WR caught it or not(ex the 1st TD to Doubs today was a bad throw and should be graded as such). I want Love to be graded on the good things he does and the bad things, and to try and parse that out from how the other individuals on the field are doing

That's stupid, man. That mishandle meant absolutely nothing.

If PFF is going to come out with individual grades for every aspect of playing the position, I'd be all for it. Throws to the sideline, comebacks, throws in rhythm, rating by time spent in the pocket, out of the pocket, rating across the middle, percentage of throws to the checkdown...take your pick.

But all you see is his overall grade, rate it against others in the league ("he's actually been average!"), when they're taking stupid **** like a one-off mishand of the snap when accounting for his grade.

His overall grade is the Big picture, there are details within that that certainly matter but things like dropping a ball onto the ground do matter and should be graded as such because dropping that ball has about a 50% chance of ending up in the other teams hands.

[MVP2110]

Wrong. As usual he threw too late. If he released that ball sooner it's an easy TD.

Do you not see #0 just standing there between Love & Doubs that Love has to use a pump fake to clear a path for the throw? Or how else do you expect Love to get past the ball past him?

0 absolutely disrupted that play, it could have been a pick six if he threw it on the first set. Also I love Doubs but he had that right in both hands at the goal line. He **** up and Reed bailed him out.


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Yea the way Love used a pump fake to clear #0 and then side armed a perfect pass to Doubs yesterday was awesome, certainly one of his best plays of the game and if anyone calling it a bad play on his part they are just wrong.

[trwi7]

Imagine spending hours on a forum going to bat for PFF's grading.

[MVP2110]

Imagine spending hours on a forum going to bat for PFF's grading.

Imagine ignoring it because you don't like what they say. PFFs grading correlates extremely well into which players teams tend to give 2nd contracts to or who gets paid in free agency. When fans tend not to like what a particular PFF grade is they brush it off and call them stupid rather than try to figure out why a player got that grade. Is PFF perfect? Of course not, which is why I try and use it in conjuction with Andy Herman's grades. When both have a player rated in the same tier then that tells me that tier of rankings is probably pretty accurate.

[trwi7]

I ignore it because their grading is **** stupid. Just like i ignore QBR because that grading is **** stupid.

[MVP2110]

I ignore it because their grading is **** stupid. Just like i ignore QBR because that grading is **** stupid.

Ah yes, an unbiased grading system that NFL teams & colleges pay for, and that also correlates extremely well to what decisions NFL teams make is stupid. Definitely.

[Profound23]

At least the NBA season starts this week.

[coolhandluke121]

Love looked really poised and decisive the first couple weeks, and he led the entire NFL in passer rating after week 2. Protection was much better, of course, and Jones in particular was far more effective. Anyway, many of us were buying in to the hype, and someone asked what had made many of us doubt him before. I wanted to say that it was just two simple words, ball placement, but I was bought in as well, and my attitude was that I would gladly live with a few inaccurate throws as long as the QB was a great decision-maker with excellent command of the offense.

Unfortunately, that decision-making and command have kind of fallen apart with the pass protection in decline, and the accuracy has gotten even worse. He doesn't even have consistent mechanics, which is basically why I doubted his accuracy all along (that and his Mertzian last year of college against incredibly weak competition). His technique just looks awkward as hell, like a 3-point shooter who doesn't replicate his mechanics each time. I no longer have much hope of his accuracy ever being adequate. He just can't throw the ball where he's trying to throw it, and that's kind of a big deal.

[M-C-G]

To clarify here, I'm not saying Love has been good or proven he'll be a starter in the NFL, if GB is in a position to be able to draft Caleb or Maye I would absolutely nab them. That said I think the people who are seemingly writing off Love are doing it way too quickly. We're 6 starts into the season and he's been not great but the circumstances around have been far from ideal this year and I think we can certainly see flashes. I'm very interested to see how he looks the rest of the season and would just caution anyone on making up their minds this early

Had this discussion with a buddy watching the game yesterday. Right now, in most games we are seeing a quarter or two of good play, as he develops, can he get that to three or four quarters of good play? BUTTTTTTTTTTT if we end up getting a top pick and Caleb Williams is on the table, I think you do it.

I still think Love is going to be a good NFL QB and if we continue to lose but he is looking more and more like a keeper, you can always trade out of that top pick and get a kings ransom. The Bears got a ton for their pick and I suspect the market will be even hotter for Caleb.

[MVP2110]

To clarify here, I'm not saying Love has been good or proven he'll be a starter in the NFL, if GB is in a position to be able to draft Caleb or Maye I would absolutely nab them. That said I think the people who are seemingly writing off Love are doing it way too quickly. We're 6 starts into the season and he's been not great but the circumstances around have been far from ideal this year and I think we can certainly see flashes. I'm very interested to see how he looks the rest of the season and would just caution anyone on making up their minds this early

Had this discussion with a buddy watching the game yesterday. Right now, in most games we are seeing a quarter or two of good play, as he develops, can he get that to three or four quarters of good play? BUTTTTTTTTTTT if we end up getting a top pick and Caleb Williams is on the table, I think you do it.

I still think Love is going to be a good NFL QB and if we continue to lose but he is looking more and more like a keeper, you can always trade out of that top pick and get a kings ransom. The Bears got a ton for their pick and I suspect the market will be even hotter for Caleb.

Yea Jordan Love isn't keeping me from drafting Caleb or Maye. Totally agree there