Official: Daniel Theis and Pacers agree to contract buyout: will sign with Clippers

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Scoot McGroot]

We’ll see what Theis gave up. Would assume at least a vet minimum equivalent (prorated). Maybe a little more if he desperately wanted out.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Scoot McGroot]

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[granger05]

I'd see headlines of teams interested in Theis and it always seemed like salary matching would be difficult in any deal. I think he's a useful vet and getting some 2nd or some younger guy would have been possible, but building goodwill with agents has some value as well I suppose.

[Topofthekey]

I think this also serves the purpose of maximizing Pacers' available cap space in 2024

Any Theis trade will likely bring back a multi year contract, especially if Pacers expect to get value out of the transaction. A multi year contract eats into Pacers available cap space in 2024

Theis is also expiring, so technically Pacers could just hold onto him, but if he's expressed dissatisfaction, might as well buy him out and save some money in the process

[pacers33granger]

Didn't realize until now that Mintz is his agent. Guessing this may have something to do with it.

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[pacers33granger]

Hopefully we give the spot to someone who deserves it and is fine with not being handed minutes. We could definitely use another vet big it seems oddly enough. The situation last night will come up again when injuries happen.

Taj Gibson wouldn't be a bad get as a somewhat still playable vet whose fine being mostly a culture guy.

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[boomershadow]

It's possible that the roster spot remains open to provide flexibility down the road, but if it were me I'd bring back Sumner.

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[Scoot McGroot]

We will probably sign someone, but I assume it’d be a non guaranteed deal to maintain flexibility. For this reason I assume they won’t promote a two way, as any trade would likely require a waiving of that player and their loss. League wide guarantee date is January 10th, so whomever we sign would likely be waived before then. Maybe then re signed with a couple ten day contracts, which would put us about 3 weeks out from the trade deadline.

[Tom White]

It's possible that the roster spot remains open to provide flexibility down the road, but if it were me I'd bring back Sumner.

Why? Isn't the team already loaded with players of his size that are more talented?

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Scoot McGroot]

It's possible that the roster spot remains open to provide flexibility down the road, but if it were me I'd bring back Sumner.

Why? Isn't the team already loaded with players of his size that are more talented?

With Carlisle’s tendency to play 3 or even 4 guards, there could be a role. And Sumner’s speed and penchant to go fast would suit him well to this current roster. There could also be a chance at a larger role, too, as Buddy is now very likely to be trade ballast this year, if Indy is to make a trade. And with Nesmith’s extension, and Bruce Brown’s solid play, we very well might be an “over the cap” team this year, so it’d be behoove the Pacers to use Buddy’s contract in trade to bring back a multi year player that fits the roster.

[boomershadow]

It's possible that the roster spot remains open to provide flexibility down the road, but if it were me I'd bring back Sumner.

Why? Isn't the team already loaded with players of his size that are more talented?

I'm just assuming no matter who gets signed, the rotation seems fairly crowded already and that player isn't likely to see much playing time no matter what size he is. But the Pacers were high on Sumner previously and only really let him go to do something with his roster spot when he went out injured, if memory serves.

They could also go with a James Johnson/George Hill vet type, but that player isn't likely to see much playing time either.

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[JMaster5K]

It's possible that the roster spot remains open to provide flexibility down the road, but if it were me I'd bring back Sumner.

Why? Isn't the team already loaded with players of his size that are more talented?

I'm just assuming no matter who gets signed, the rotation seems fairly crowded already and that player isn't likely to see much playing time no matter what size he is. But the Pacers were high on Sumner previously and only really let him go to do something with his roster spot when he went out injured, if memory serves.

They could also go with a James Johnson/George Hill vet type, but that player isn't likely to see much playing time either.

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I hear ya, but I kinda like the idea of keeping the roster spot, We got 14 & don't have to fill it. We are also (Scoot correct me if this isn't right?) 9.7 mill under the cap? There is a month to go before the first in-season 'trade window' kicks off (Dec 15th) with some of the people who signed contracts becoming eligible for trades. This puts us in a prime position as likely, the only team, that could facilitate a trade or two, and extract some capital we want in the process (young player or draft picks?)

Really liking how the FO is positioning the team right now.

[Scoot McGroot]

Why? Isn't the team already loaded with players of his size that are more talented?

I'm just assuming no matter who gets signed, the rotation seems fairly crowded already and that player isn't likely to see much playing time no matter what size he is. But the Pacers were high on Sumner previously and only really let him go to do something with his roster spot when he went out injured, if memory serves.

They could also go with a James Johnson/George Hill vet type, but that player isn't likely to see much playing time either.

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I hear ya, but I kinda like the idea of keeping the roster spot, We got 14 & don't have to fill it. We are also (Scoot correct me if this isn't right?) 9.7 mill under the cap? There is a month to go before the first in-season 'trade window' kicks off (Dec 15th) with some of the people who signed contracts becoming eligible for trades. This puts us in a prime position as likely, the only team, that could facilitate a trade or two, and extract some capital we want in the process (young player or draft picks?)

Really liking how the FO is positioning the team right now.

Correct. We could however, sign someone to a non guaranteed contract (contracts league wide don’t guarantee until 1/10), so a George Hill, James Johnson, or even Ed Sumner could provide some extreme minutes here or there, and still be waived to complete a trade, while only sticking on the cap for whatever weeks we actually paid them, if that makes sense?

But yes, around $9.7m in cap space. Tony East has it as about $9.65m.

[Tom White]

I hear ya, but I kinda like the idea of keeping the roster spot, We got 14 & don't have to fill it. We are also (Scoot correct me if this isn't right?) 9.7 mill under the cap?

As my parents used to tell a much younger me, just because you have a bit of money in your pocket, it doesn't mean you have to spend it.

The older I've gotten, the smarter they seem to have been.

[Scoot McGroot]

I

I hear ya, but I kinda like the idea of keeping the roster spot, We got 14 & don't have to fill it. We are also (Scoot correct me if this isn't right?) 9.7 mill under the cap?

As my parents used to tell a much younger me, just because you have a bit of money in your pocket, it doesn't mean you have to spend it.

The older I've gotten, the smarter they seem to have been.

Yeah, thats where a non guaranteed contract comes into play. A non guaranteed player that is waived by the league wide cutdown date of 1/10 would only add about $1m back onto the cap, but would give you a 15th player for almost 2 months. It’s kind of a “best of both worlds” type path in terms of filling the roster, while also leaving maximum cap and roster spot flexibility. You can always waive the player immediately before completing a trade, if you need the roster spot.

[JMaster5K]

I

I hear ya, but I kinda like the idea of keeping the roster spot, We got 14 & don't have to fill it. We are also (Scoot correct me if this isn't right?) 9.7 mill under the cap?

As my parents used to tell a much younger me, just because you have a bit of money in your pocket, it doesn't mean you have to spend it.

The older I've gotten, the smarter they seem to have been.

Yeah, thats where a non guaranteed contract comes into play. A non guaranteed player that is waived by the league wide cutdown date of 1/10 would only add about $1m back onto the cap, but would give you a 15th player for almost 2 months. It’s kind of a “best of both worlds” type path in terms of filling the roster, while also leaving maximum cap and roster spot flexibility. You can always waive the player immediately before completing a trade, if you need the roster spot.

Scoot,... where did you pick up all your knowledge? You sir, are a straight up Guru. I mean, I've actually read the CBA front to back, and understand bits & pieces of it. But you have the details of almost any subject within the thing, and are always right on the money. Lucky to have you in a forum like this. Much respect. (now back to the regularly scheduled basketball conversations).... =]

[Scoot McGroot]

I

As my parents used to tell a much younger me, just because you have a bit of money in your pocket, it doesn't mean you have to spend it.

The older I've gotten, the smarter they seem to have been.

Yeah, thats where a non guaranteed contract comes into play. A non guaranteed player that is waived by the league wide cutdown date of 1/10 would only add about $1m back onto the cap, but would give you a 15th player for almost 2 months. It’s kind of a “best of both worlds” type path in terms of filling the roster, while also leaving maximum cap and roster spot flexibility. You can always waive the player immediately before completing a trade, if you need the roster spot.

Scoot,... where did you pick up all your knowledge? You sir, are a straight up Guru. I mean, I've actually read the CBA front to back, and understand bits & pieces of it. But you have the details of almost any subject within the thing, and are always right on the money. Lucky to have you in a forum like this. Much respect. (now back to the regularly scheduled basketball conversations).... =]

Ah, thanks! I started into it a decade or more ago, and got/get much of the fine detail from Larry Coon’s cbafaq.com. Back then, Larry used to post here on the CBA forum, along with Smitty (Keith Smith, now of Spotrac). That era around here at RealGM spawned a BUNCH of writers and even guys that went in to work for teams and sports agencies. Plus, I have the benefit of some friendships where we can talk some deep dives into the CBA. After that, it’s just years of interest and paying attention to how the deals work over the years and why certain weird quirks happened. Mostly, just a deep interest.