Woj/Shams/Jon: The Russell deal is done

[shangrila]

Shrink’s Trade Deadline Joke

Pelinka: Listen Connelly. We’ll trade you Mike Conley and NAW for DLo
Ainge: Yeah, but you have to go it right now!
Connelly: Hmmm. Give me three seconds to think it over
Pelinka and Ainge whisper. Then, “Done!”
Connelly: Wait … what?

You could apply that to just about every deal done at the deadline.

We were first - we probably started the whole thing!

I think that was the Lakers with Rui.

[Nick K]

Britt Robson is the only local journalist that isn't a total lackey

Jon Krawczynski is literally one of the more respected local journalists around the NBA.

Yeah He has to be really careful what he says, otherwise he loses his access to the front office/player agents that puts the bread in his basket. Those comments came out during a radio interview, that is probably 10% of what actually goes on behind the scenes.

For what its worth, I think a big part of what got under Russell's skin was that he operates under the delusion that he deserves to be a max player, and blames Gobert for not getting paid.
When it was patently obvious to anyone who watched the memphis series last year that Russell was the worst player on the floor.
He went from 2nd option to 3rd option to 4th on the ladder when Gobert came.

Part of what is so great about Ant is that he embraces his teammates, win or lose, and doesn't let bad possessions or failed plays fester.
He still does a lot of complaining about foul calls, but being able to quickly turn the page onto the next play is a key attribute to being a good leader.

Part of me really wants Russell to play just good enough over the final 26 games to get a big extension from the Lakers so he can tank them for 3 or 4 more years after this one.

Really good. Nailed it. Especially the last sentence. Dlo is a legend in his own mind.

[Worm Guts]

My 2 cents for the GOAT debate, you have to judge the player by the era they played in just like you have to judge historical figures by the times they lived in. Context matters.

Jordan played in one of the toughest eras, where defenders could get away with almost anything and you had maybe one 3 point specialist on your team instead of a team full of shooters.
Every basket in that era was a tough basket.
You couldn't be built like a linebacker and just truck your way to 20 free throw attempts like today.
Nearly every team had 2 BAMFs waiting for you in the lane like Charles Oakley or Antonio/Dale Davis.
I would like to see how Lebron handled the bad boy pistons of the 80s with as mentally soft as he can be at times.

I don't think there will ever be a player with the will to win quite like Jordan.
I remember staying up late to watch those Portland and Laker finals games and the intensity of those games is something you don't see anymore. Jordan was clearly one a pedestal way above every other player, even guys like Drexler and Magic.
I remember everybody loved the Lakers in those days and Jordan was like the guy who went from villain to babyface in wrestling because he won the entire sporting world over with his incredible play and charisma.
Lebron never was the singular face of an entire sport the way Jordan was for 10 years.

Lebron will have better stats over time, but I also think he's maybe the 2nd most physically gifted player ever behind Wilt Chamberlain.
The one title he deserves credit for is the one he won for Cleveland against a loaded Warrior team, because I think he willed that team to victory. The heat wins and Laker bubble win were not impressive because of the superteam aspect and covid season.

The guys who played in the 60s-70s have a better argument for stats/titles/accolades. Havlicek/Russell and the Celtics, Wilt, Kareem, even Mikan. But they also played with fewer teams and no 3 point line.

Going back to the era argument, it's kind of like arguing what is the best era of music. Each had their charm and each successive one had technological advantages the previous didn't.
Was Zeppelin better because they had to record to tape and 70's era is superior?
Was it much harder for Jordan in the hair metal era than for Lebron in the autotune/boyband era where almost everything is a foul?

My answer is yes. And players are going to keep getting softer and softer because that's what society reflects back at them.
Could you imagine Isaiah Thomas and Jordan having a passive aggressive slap fight over instagram the way some of these soft babies do today? I didn't get my contract extension so I'm going to unfollow my team and highest paid teammate on instagram.
That dude is ten-ply.

I agree that you should view players in the context of their era, but I guess that means something different to me. Lebron has no control over the physicality of the league, but he is still competing with 29 other teams to try to win a championship. He has to beat them at whatever rules the league has at that moment. There’s no way to know how he would adapt to a different set of rules. By the same token, I don’t hold it against Jordan that he wasn’t much a three point shooter. That’s just the way the league was.
I do see Jordan as the GOAT though, I can’t get over the fact that Lebron hand-picked a superstar team and then lost twice in the finals. It just feels like there’s no way Jordan loses to the Mavericks (especially) and the Spurs.

[Nick K]

My 2 cents for the GOAT debate, you have to judge the player by the era they played in just like you have to judge historical figures by the times they lived in. Context matters.

Jordan played in one of the toughest eras, where defenders could get away with almost anything and you had maybe one 3 point specialist on your team instead of a team full of shooters.
Every basket in that era was a tough basket.
You couldn't be built like a linebacker and just truck your way to 20 free throw attempts like today.
Nearly every team had 2 BAMFs waiting for you in the lane like Charles Oakley or Antonio/Dale Davis.
I would like to see how Lebron handled the bad boy pistons of the 80s with as mentally soft as he can be at times.

I don't think there will ever be a player with the will to win quite like Jordan.
I remember staying up late to watch those Portland and Laker finals games and the intensity of those games is something you don't see anymore. Jordan was clearly one a pedestal way above every other player, even guys like Drexler and Magic.
I remember everybody loved the Lakers in those days and Jordan was like the guy who went from villain to babyface in wrestling because he won the entire sporting world over with his incredible play and charisma.
Lebron never was the singular face of an entire sport the way Jordan was for 10 years.

Lebron will have better stats over time, but I also think he's maybe the 2nd most physically gifted player ever behind Wilt Chamberlain.
The one title he deserves credit for is the one he won for Cleveland against a loaded Warrior team, because I think he willed that team to victory. The heat wins and Laker bubble win were not impressive because of the superteam aspect and covid season.

The guys who played in the 60s-70s have a better argument for stats/titles/accolades. Havlicek/Russell and the Celtics, Wilt, Kareem, even Mikan. But they also played with fewer teams and no 3 point line.

Going back to the era argument, it's kind of like arguing what is the best era of music. Each had their charm and each successive one had technological advantages the previous didn't.
Was Zeppelin better because they had to record to tape and 70's era is superior?
Was it much harder for Jordan in the hair metal era than for Lebron in the autotune/boyband era where almost everything is a foul?

My answer is yes. And players are going to keep getting softer and softer because that's what society reflects back at them.
Could you imagine Isaiah Thomas and Jordan having a passive aggressive slap fight over instagram the way some of these soft babies do today? I didn't get my contract extension so I'm going to unfollow my team and highest paid teammate on instagram.
That dude is ten-ply.

I agree that you should view players in the context of their era, but I guess that means something different to me. Lebron has no control over the physicality of the league, but he is still competing with 29 other teams to try to win a championship. He has to beat them at whatever rules the league has at that moment. There’s no way to know how he would adapt to a different set of rules. By the same token, I don’t hold it against Jordan that he wasn’t much a three point shooter. That’s just the way the league was.
I do see Jordan as the GOAT though, I can’t get over the fact that Lebron hand-picked a superstar team and then lost twice in the finals. It just feels like there’s no way Jordan loses to the Mavericks (especially) and the Spurs.

Michael Jordan by far had better team mates surrounding him than did LeBron. Great teams are more than a collection of big names. The Bulls were a perfectly constructed team to feature MJ.

[Baseline81]

Michael Jordan by far had better team mates surrounding him than did LeBron. Great teams are more than a collection of big names. The Bulls were a perfectly constructed team to feature MJ.

Other than Pippen, who was a better teammate?

Rodman was only there for the second three-peat. If I focus on the first three-peat, are we really trying to state Armstrong, Cartwright and Grant were that much better than some of the players James had?

[Colbinii]

My 2 cents for the GOAT debate, you have to judge the player by the era they played in just like you have to judge historical figures by the times they lived in. Context matters.

Jordan played in one of the toughest eras, where defenders could get away with almost anything and you had maybe one 3 point specialist on your team instead of a team full of shooters.
Every basket in that era was a tough basket.
You couldn't be built like a linebacker and just truck your way to 20 free throw attempts like today.
Nearly every team had 2 BAMFs waiting for you in the lane like Charles Oakley or Antonio/Dale Davis.
I would like to see how Lebron handled the bad boy pistons of the 80s with as mentally soft as he can be at times.

I don't think there will ever be a player with the will to win quite like Jordan.
I remember staying up late to watch those Portland and Laker finals games and the intensity of those games is something you don't see anymore. Jordan was clearly one a pedestal way above every other player, even guys like Drexler and Magic.
I remember everybody loved the Lakers in those days and Jordan was like the guy who went from villain to babyface in wrestling because he won the entire sporting world over with his incredible play and charisma.
Lebron never was the singular face of an entire sport the way Jordan was for 10 years.

Lebron will have better stats over time, but I also think he's maybe the 2nd most physically gifted player ever behind Wilt Chamberlain.
The one title he deserves credit for is the one he won for Cleveland against a loaded Warrior team, because I think he willed that team to victory. The heat wins and Laker bubble win were not impressive because of the superteam aspect and covid season.

The guys who played in the 60s-70s have a better argument for stats/titles/accolades. Havlicek/Russell and the Celtics, Wilt, Kareem, even Mikan. But they also played with fewer teams and no 3 point line.

Going back to the era argument, it's kind of like arguing what is the best era of music. Each had their charm and each successive one had technological advantages the previous didn't.
Was Zeppelin better because they had to record to tape and 70's era is superior?
Was it much harder for Jordan in the hair metal era than for Lebron in the autotune/boyband era where almost everything is a foul?

My answer is yes. And players are going to keep getting softer and softer because that's what society reflects back at them.
Could you imagine Isaiah Thomas and Jordan having a passive aggressive slap fight over instagram the way some of these soft babies do today? I didn't get my contract extension so I'm going to unfollow my team and highest paid teammate on instagram.
That dude is ten-ply.

This reads like a satire, I really hope it is.

I am guessing you loved "He Gets Us" commercial at the Super Bowl justifying Fascism.

[Worm Guts]

My 2 cents for the GOAT debate, you have to judge the player by the era they played in just like you have to judge historical figures by the times they lived in. Context matters.

Jordan played in one of the toughest eras, where defenders could get away with almost anything and you had maybe one 3 point specialist on your team instead of a team full of shooters.
Every basket in that era was a tough basket.
You couldn't be built like a linebacker and just truck your way to 20 free throw attempts like today.
Nearly every team had 2 BAMFs waiting for you in the lane like Charles Oakley or Antonio/Dale Davis.
I would like to see how Lebron handled the bad boy pistons of the 80s with as mentally soft as he can be at times.

I don't think there will ever be a player with the will to win quite like Jordan.
I remember staying up late to watch those Portland and Laker finals games and the intensity of those games is something you don't see anymore. Jordan was clearly one a pedestal way above every other player, even guys like Drexler and Magic.
I remember everybody loved the Lakers in those days and Jordan was like the guy who went from villain to babyface in wrestling because he won the entire sporting world over with his incredible play and charisma.
Lebron never was the singular face of an entire sport the way Jordan was for 10 years.

Lebron will have better stats over time, but I also think he's maybe the 2nd most physically gifted player ever behind Wilt Chamberlain.
The one title he deserves credit for is the one he won for Cleveland against a loaded Warrior team, because I think he willed that team to victory. The heat wins and Laker bubble win were not impressive because of the superteam aspect and covid season.

The guys who played in the 60s-70s have a better argument for stats/titles/accolades. Havlicek/Russell and the Celtics, Wilt, Kareem, even Mikan. But they also played with fewer teams and no 3 point line.

Going back to the era argument, it's kind of like arguing what is the best era of music. Each had their charm and each successive one had technological advantages the previous didn't.
Was Zeppelin better because they had to record to tape and 70's era is superior?
Was it much harder for Jordan in the hair metal era than for Lebron in the autotune/boyband era where almost everything is a foul?

My answer is yes. And players are going to keep getting softer and softer because that's what society reflects back at them.
Could you imagine Isaiah Thomas and Jordan having a passive aggressive slap fight over instagram the way some of these soft babies do today? I didn't get my contract extension so I'm going to unfollow my team and highest paid teammate on instagram.
That dude is ten-ply.

I agree that you should view players in the context of their era, but I guess that means something different to me. Lebron has no control over the physicality of the league, but he is still competing with 29 other teams to try to win a championship. He has to beat them at whatever rules the league has at that moment. There’s no way to know how he would adapt to a different set of rules. By the same token, I don’t hold it against Jordan that he wasn’t much a three point shooter. That’s just the way the league was.
I do see Jordan as the GOAT though, I can’t get over the fact that Lebron hand-picked a superstar team and then lost twice in the finals. It just feels like there’s no way Jordan loses to the Mavericks (especially) and the Spurs.

Michael Jordan by far had better team mates surrounding him than did LeBron. Great teams are more than a collection of big names. The Bulls were a perfectly constructed team to feature MJ.

I don't necessarily want to get into that debate. Regardless, when you hand pick your team the way Lebron did in Miami you create a certain level of expectation. And I still don't see Jordan losing that situation. That's speculative, but I do feel like Lebron brought it on himself.

[KGdaBom]

From a PG perspective, I can understand how it'd be frustrating for your rolling big to constantly drop and fumble passes that almost every other big would catch. There are times when a bounce or shuttle pass is the optimal play but for Rudy, you have to exclusively throw it high.

On the other hand, it's up to the PG to adjust so it's a tough spot for both players to be in. But Russell is gone, time to move on.

Rudy doesn't have great hands, but he doesn't have hands of stone either. Pretty average for a big. Just put it up high and he seldom has any trouble with those.

[KGdaBom]

Michael Jordan by far had better team mates surrounding him than did LeBron. Great teams are more than a collection of big names. The Bulls were a perfectly constructed team to feature MJ.

Other than Pippen, who was a better teammate?

Rodman was only there for the second three-peat. If I focus on the first three-peat, are we really trying to state Armstrong, Cartwright and Grant were that much better than some of the players James had?

Oakley was amazing. He had great shooters on the wings. Those Bulls teams were stacked top to bottom.

[Baseline81]

Krawczynski on his podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5gmC3cSfEbSEHg3bh8lOZe?si=fXNZhe16Qx6kxYSX9cxdcw&nd=1

We have Rudy Gobert under contract for another four years. We got to find a way to make it work. I think Jim that might be the biggest priority here is they may have made a mistake in trading for Gobert. Rudy Gobert isn't going anywhere. And so now, what this move is, is an attempt to try to maximize the players that they have, particularly Gobert. If you've invested this much money in him, if you're investing this much draft capital and player capital in terms of trading for him, the thinking is you got to put him in the best position to succeed here. The combination of just the way that Russell wants to play with the way Gobert wants to way, I don't think that was going to work out long term in the Timberwolves eyes. They made their mind up that way. The think that Conley is going to be a player who can help them figure out how to play with Gobert much better than they have offensively.

My issue with this is the Wolves may be doubling down on something that may not work. Forget what you've given up for Gobert, it's a sunk cost. Do not exacerbate it further.

[Baseline81]

Oakley was amazing. He had great shooters on the wings. Those Bulls teams were stacked top to bottom.

And this is why posters don't take you seriously.

Oakley played for the Bulls 1985-86, 1986-87 and 1987-88 seasons. He then played once more 2001-02 season. How did he help Jordan with a title(s)?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/oaklech01.html

[Klomp]

Krawczynski on his podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5gmC3cSfEbSEHg3bh8lOZe?si=fXNZhe16Qx6kxYSX9cxdcw&nd=1

We have Rudy Gobert under contract for another four years. We got to find a way to make it work. I think Jim that might be the biggest priority here is they may have made a mistake in trading for Gobert. Rudy Gobert isn't going anywhere. And so now, what this move is, is an attempt to try to maximize the players that they have, particularly Gobert. If you've invested this much money in him, if you're investing this much draft capital and player capital in terms of trading for him, the thinking is you got to put him in the best position to succeed here. The combination of just the way that Russell wants to play with the way Gobert wants to way, I don't think that was going to work out long term in the Timberwolves eyes. They made their mind up that way. The think that Conley is going to be a player who can help them figure out how to play with Gobert much better than they have offensively.

My issue with this is the Wolves may be doubling down on something that may not work. Forget what you've given up for Gobert, it's a sunk cost. Do not exacerbate it further.

You're doubling down on guys who will be here. If picking Russell over Gobert and then Russell leaves in free agency, then what are you left with?

[Klomp]

This is to me one of the biggest things that has held back Russell in his career...a me-centric attitude.

“A lot has happened since I’ve been here, right?” Russell said at his introductory press conference Friday. “I was an All-Star, went to the playoffs. I’ve done a lot of things individually. So to come back with that resume, I feel like it helps the team or whatnot.”

https://theathletic.com/4183500/2023/02/13/los-angeles-lakers-dangelo-russell/

Now, I don't have the context from that press conference, but that answer just feels very self-centered.

[papertrail]

This is to me one of the biggest things that has held back Russell in his career...a me-centric attitude.

“A lot has happened since I’ve been here, right?” Russell said at his introductory press conference Friday. “I was an All-Star, went to the playoffs. I’ve done a lot of things individually. So to come back with that resume, I feel like it helps the team or whatnot.”

https://theathletic.com/4183500/2023/02/13/los-angeles-lakers-dangelo-russell/

Now, I don't have the context from that press conference, but that answer just feels very self-centered.

So you don't have proper context of his answer and you still making a judgement based on his answer? Lmao good job.

Here is the full context - https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/dangelo_russell_thinks_of_kobe_bryant_when_he_reflects_on_first_tenure_with_lakers/s1_17074_38454990

Now that he’s back, Russell expressed appreciation to be playing for the franchise where it all started for him again:


“A lot has happened since I’ve been here, right? I’ve been an All-Star, went to the playoffs. I’ve done a lot of things individually so to come back with that resume, I feel like it only helps the team and whatnot. Going back to what you said, I never hoped to be back here because I didn’t understand if I could be ready for it and be a part of what they were doing for the future. You never know what the team is gonna look like so it’s hard to find stability in that. But I’m here now and I really appreciate being back because I feel like I’m ready for everything that’s about to come for the team and whatever comes my way.”

[shangrila]

Krawczynski on his podcast:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5gmC3cSfEbSEHg3bh8lOZe?si=fXNZhe16Qx6kxYSX9cxdcw&nd=1

We have Rudy Gobert under contract for another four years. We got to find a way to make it work. I think Jim that might be the biggest priority here is they may have made a mistake in trading for Gobert. Rudy Gobert isn't going anywhere. And so now, what this move is, is an attempt to try to maximize the players that they have, particularly Gobert. If you've invested this much money in him, if you're investing this much draft capital and player capital in terms of trading for him, the thinking is you got to put him in the best position to succeed here. The combination of just the way that Russell wants to play with the way Gobert wants to way, I don't think that was going to work out long term in the Timberwolves eyes. They made their mind up that way. The think that Conley is going to be a player who can help them figure out how to play with Gobert much better than they have offensively.

My issue with this is the Wolves may be doubling down on something that may not work. Forget what you've given up for Gobert, it's a sunk cost. Do not exacerbate it further.

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

[Baseline81]

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

Both you and Klomp are focusing on the Russell aspect of the trade, whereas I'm more concerned with Gobert.

Again, Connelly immediately splashed future assets on an experiment. Fast forward half a season later, we remain in the dark on whether a Towns/Gobert pairing even works. To garner some traction from his initial trade, the POBO then dealt another of the few assets remaining.

It just seems to me Connelly continues to putting all his eggs into his Gobert basket, hoping, at some point, it works out.

[Nick K]

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

Both you and Klomp are focusing on the Russell aspect of the trade, whereas I'm more concerned with Gobert.

Again, Connelly immediately splashed future assets on an experiment. Fast forward half a season later, we remain in the dark on whether a Towns/Gobert pairing even works. To garner some traction from his initial trade, the POBO then dealt another of the few assets remaining.

It just seems to me Connelly continues to putting all his eggs into his Gobert basket, hoping, at some point, it works out.

I don't think you can give a reasoned opinion on the Gobert trade until after the season is over. There is plenty of basketball left to play. Kat will be back too. For us to be in 8th place, and just a game and 1/2 out of 4th all things considered is pretty remarkable.

My guess is we'll all be happy with the Rudy trade by seasons end.

[Klomp]

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

Both you and Klomp are focusing on the Russell aspect of the trade, whereas I'm more concerned with Gobert.

Again, Connelly immediately splashed future assets on an experiment. Fast forward half a season later, we remain in the dark on whether a Towns/Gobert pairing even works. To garner some traction from his initial trade, the POBO then dealt another of the few assets remaining.

It just seems to me Connelly continues to putting all his eggs into his Gobert basket, hoping, at some point, it works out.

Actually, the person I'm focusing on is Ant. I think everything Connelly has done and will continue to do revolves around the continued development of Anthony Edwards as well as Jaden McDaniels.

1. It's why Connelly didn't include Jaden in the trade.
2. Raising the franchise's floor to be in the playoff race at a minimum is a huge step for the franchise, and important for the development of Ant/Jaden.
3. Adding Kyle and Rudy gives Jaden more defensive help.
4. Kyle helps Ant with the ball-handling responsibilities.
5. Swapping Russell for Conley opens up more shots for Jaden and even Ant.
6. Rudy's screens have helped Ant attack the rim more often and better than ever.

This is Ant and Jaden's team. Everyone knows it. Except Russell didn't...

[Krapinsky]

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

Both you and Klomp are focusing on the Russell aspect of the trade, whereas I'm more concerned with Gobert.

Again, Connelly immediately splashed future assets on an experiment. Fast forward half a season later, we remain in the dark on whether a Towns/Gobert pairing even works. To garner some traction from his initial trade, the POBO then dealt another of the few assets remaining.

It just seems to me Connelly continues to putting all his eggs into his Gobert basket, hoping, at some point, it works out.

I think it's fair to criticize the Gobert trade. I don't think this is a fair criticism, at this point however.

Given our current situation, we would have been much worse off not trading D-lo because then we would either have to re-sign him or let him walk for nothing and lose the salary spot.

Conley should help Ant and Towns, but maybe not as much as he will help Gobert.

[shangrila]

Russell's days were numbered the moment we drafted Ant. There just wasn't going to be a need for another high usage offensive player, especially one that brought little outside of that.

Both you and Klomp are focusing on the Russell aspect of the trade, whereas I'm more concerned with Gobert.

Again, Connelly immediately splashed future assets on an experiment. Fast forward half a season later, we remain in the dark on whether a Towns/Gobert pairing even works. To garner some traction from his initial trade, the POBO then dealt another of the few assets remaining.

It just seems to me Connelly continues to putting all his eggs into his Gobert basket, hoping, at some point, it works out.

I mean, it's not like they passed up a better player just to get someone that works with Gobert. Russell was getting moved at this point regardless as they clearly didn't want to pay him what he was willing to agree to. And given there have been rumours for years now of them trying to move him without any traction it seems fair to assume that Russell's value wasn't very high.

Does Conley work better with Gobert? Absolutely. Does he also work better with KAT and Ant? Arguably yes, as a low turnover/game managing PG.

I honestly don't see what the problem is with this deal. Even if Rudy weren't on the team I'd probably still have made it.