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MagicMatic wrote:

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I actually don't think most of the guys who will likely be on the trade market this summer will cost anywhere close to that either, but I have no concerns whatsoever about the Magic's ability to make a deal if the right player is out there.

Kind of a unicorn player would be needed to spend 5 future positive assets in a deal of that kind of magnitude.

The player would have to be a legitimate allstar, young-ish, a position of need, and on a strapped team needing future assets for lack thereof willing to blow it up. Only really someone like Booker comes to mind really and I have a hard time seeing that trade as viable considering Jett and AB’s value isn’t astronomical yet.

I don't think there's necessarily going to be a player on the market this summer that is worth 5 positive assets either.

But the point is, I think the Magic have as many positive assets (especially if we count the ability to leverage cap space to take on an unwanted contract) as any other team when it comes to being able to make a deal.

There's no scenario where the Magic should be "out bid" by any other team for any player that hits the market. Maybe the player won't want to come to Orlando or maybe the Magic won't want to bring on the player, but they have the assets to basically make any trade happen IMO.

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I actually don't think most of the guys who will likely be on the trade market this summer will cost anywhere close to that either, but I have no concerns whatsoever about the Magic's ability to make a deal if the right player is out there.

Exactly. There is sufficient ammo if and when the team wants to make a big move. A bigger hindrance is timing of contracts, team fit, and any internal reluctances to give up AB, Jett or a core player.

I usually root against the top teams in the playoffs, but this may be the one year to do so for the long term success of the Magic. Why? There were SO many middling teams in the league this year, and this playoff system encourages everyone to feel like they have a shot to make some noise. The more teams that get smacked down in the playoffs, the more teams realize just how far they are from contention. It’ll potentially free up some teams to be more open to reshaping things this offseason via deals.

I’ll be content with the Magic punting Fultz and Harris to the moon and anything on top of that is gravy. But I think we may be pleasantly surprised with how active the Magic are this offseason.

Bunch of mumbo jumbo. I want front office to declare goals and I want to see some ambition goddammit.

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I

I usually agree with you but not here

Black did not show enough his rookie year and there is not a huge market for offensively challenged point guards.

Regarding Jett, it is hard to argue that he has much value currently. How could he when he spent almost his entire rookie year in the G League? I personally wouldnt be surprised if he plays longer in the league than Black because every team needs a shooter but Black barely showed enough at all, especially for a 6th overall pick.

I think the Magic may shop Black because his skillset is not a good fit with the roster but I don't expect to see much in return for him.

Black is an defensive minded guard who doesn't space the floor playing at a time when spacing is so badly needed by every NBA team.

Eventually Moseley figured out that the best way to play the current group is to not even play a point guard at all and just leave it up to Paolo and put two shooting guards around him just because they were the best shooters.

The-Stallion70 wrote:

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I

I usually agree with you but not here

Black did not show enough his rookie year and there is not a huge market for offensively challenged point guards.

Regarding Jett, it is hard to argue that he has much value currently. How could he when he spent almost his entire rookie year in the G League? I personally wouldnt be surprised if he plays longer in the league than Black because every team needs a shooter but Black barely showed enough at all, especially for a 6th overall pick.

I think the Magic may shop Black because his skillset is not a good fit with the roster but I don't expect to see much in return for him.

Black is an defensive minded guard who doesn't space the floor playing at a time when spacing is so badly needed by every NBA team.

Eventually Moseley figured out that the best way to play the current group is to not even play a point guard at all and just leave it up to Paolo and put two shooting guards around him just because they were the best shooters.

Agree to disagree. They're both kids. They still have a lot of value.

Black is likely in the rotation and possibly starting next season.

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basketballRob wrote:Black is likely in the rotation and possibly starting next season.

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I doubt this is happening... They're going to add 2-3 vet shooters/playmakers.

It doesn't make sense to throw a low volume 3 point shooter into the starting lineup when 4 of your starters are average to below average shooters.

Also, he mentioned a veteran/winning presence that needs to be added and injected into the lineup. My best guess is they're trying to get someone like Mikal Bridges since he's gone to the finals before.

Black will probably receive backup rotation minutes and have to prove himself from there. He barely played after the starters came back. I can't imagine him being trusted into the starting lineup of a team that is looking to add better fitting complimentary pieces next to the core.

basketballRob wrote:Black is likely in the rotation and possibly starting next season.

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I don’t see Black starting next year. Why handicap the offense even more?

The-Stallion70 wrote:

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I

I usually agree with you but not here

Black did not show enough his rookie year and there is not a huge market for offensively challenged point guards.

Regarding Jett, it is hard to argue that he has much value currently. How could he when he spent almost his entire rookie year in the G League? I personally wouldnt be surprised if he plays longer in the league than Black because every team needs a shooter but Black barely showed enough at all, especially for a 6th overall pick.

I think the Magic may shop Black because his skillset is not a good fit with the roster but I don't expect to see much in return for him.

Black is an defensive minded guard who doesn't space the floor playing at a time when spacing is so badly needed by every NBA team.

Eventually Moseley figured out that the best way to play the current group is to not even play a point guard at all and just leave it up to Paolo and put two shooting guards around him just because they were the best shooters.

Did you not see what Coby White just did to the Hawks? Black could easily end up being as good as him in 3-4 years.

Ducklett wrote:

The-Stallion70 wrote:

Knightro wrote:I just want to be overly clear on one thing...

If the Magic put Anthony Black, Jett Howard and 3 unprotected 1st round picks on the table, plus their ability to absorb another contract as necessary, they will have the ability to acquire literally anyone who will possibly be on the market this summer.

3 unprotected firsts and two lotto picks just a year into their rookie deals? That is a super competitive offer!

I

I usually agree with you but not here

Black did not show enough his rookie year and there is not a huge market for offensively challenged point guards.

Regarding Jett, it is hard to argue that he has much value currently. How could he when he spent almost his entire rookie year in the G League? I personally wouldnt be surprised if he plays longer in the league than Black because every team needs a shooter but Black barely showed enough at all, especially for a 6th overall pick.

I think the Magic may shop Black because his skillset is not a good fit with the roster but I don't expect to see much in return for him.

Black is an defensive minded guard who doesn't space the floor playing at a time when spacing is so badly needed by every NBA team.

Eventually Moseley figured out that the best way to play the current group is to not even play a point guard at all and just leave it up to Paolo and put two shooting guards around him just because they were the best shooters.

Did you not see what Coby White just did to the Hawks? Black could easily end up being as good as him in 3-4 years.

Coby came into the league able to score, he was never really offensively limited like Black is.

I don't believe they are really comparable in their skillsets now or at the same age.

Black will likely be much better than White because of his elite defense and size.

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People forget White was 5th in ROY voting. Bulls in same time stunned growth of him, Lauri, Wendell , Pat Will etc with one single mistake called Zach Lavine.

pepe1991 wrote:People forget White was 5th in ROY voting. Bulls in same time stunned growth of him, Lauri, Wendell , Pat Will etc with one single mistake called Zach Lavine.

He played on a 22-win team that gave unlimited opportunities to rookies.


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basketballRob wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:People forget White was 5th in ROY voting. Bulls in same time stunned growth of him, Lauri, Wendell , Pat Will etc with one single mistake called Zach Lavine.

He played on a 22-win team that gave unlimited opportunities to rookies.


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Cook

basketballRob wrote:

pepe1991 wrote:People forget White was 5th in ROY voting. Bulls in same time stunned growth of him, Lauri, Wendell , Pat Will etc with one single mistake called Zach Lavine.

He played on a 22-win team that gave unlimited opportunities to rookies.

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He was 6th man off bench.
22 wins is missleading, it was 65 games season. If playin was a thing back in his rookie year, Bulls would have been 0,5 behind 10th spot.

pepe1991 wrote:People forget White was 5th in ROY voting. Bulls in same time stunned growth of him, Lauri, Wendell , Pat Will etc with one single mistake called Zach Lavine.

Coby White in his rookie season was 5th in minutes per game on that roster.
Anthony Black was about 10th in comparison.

Yeah, I'd agree they have different skillsets but there was no real path to minutes with Fultz returning in the first week of January. When he was playing he looked pretty good and was actually hitting his stride hitting outside shots.

I don't get where the AB criticism comes from really. He looked above average for a rookie compared to other picks and theres obviously a lot of potential.

Jett Howard... Yeah we have no idea but it can't look good when half your wings are injured and he isn't getting any minutes whatsoever.

So the NO.1 priority is still internal growth, huh? That explains the lack of aggressiveness from the Orlando Magic front office in recent years

basketballRob wrote:Black will likely be much better than White because of his elite defense and size.

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Elite? Hes a good defender right now and limited by just about everywhere else offensively.

This is very similar to the Suggs conversation we had in the Anthony Black draft thread just before the season started. Coby and Suggs were guys who came into the league with some sort of offensive pedigree/skill.

You look at what he did before being drafted and then playing some minutes and it's pretty obvious he's never going to be a good offensive player. Average at best and can hit the occasional 3. He just has a very long way to go at that end of the court.

He kind of played both sides of the fence and I don’t think he is lying. I think he is fine doubling down minus some tweaks in second units. The second apron throws a wrench into everything. Also who knows how much the ownership will go into the tax for. You have three extensions to do this summer. So by 2025 I think a low end estimate for Suggs Wagner and Isaac is 80 million per year. Then the next year Paolo’s max will kick in. At that point there is no room for a third star. Like if we trade for a third star Isaac and/or Suggs might have to be in the deal. So it’s got to be a star worth it. This team starting to get expensive starting 2025-2026.

JF5 wrote:

basketballRob wrote:Black will likely be much better than White because of his elite defense and size.

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Elite? Hes a good defender right now and limited by just about everywhere else offensively.

This is very similar to the Suggs conversation we had in the Anthony Black draft thread just before the season started. Coby and Suggs were guys who came into the league with some sort of offensive pedigree/skill.

You look at what he did before being drafted and then playing some minutes and it's pretty obvious he's never going to be a good offensive player. Average at best and can hit the occasional 3. He just has a very long way to go at that end of the court.

Black played within a winning team concept. No one questions Gary Harris when he's 1-3 at the end of games. Black was filling that role this season. He was also a very young rookie. Suggs hadn't even played 1 game in the NBA yet when he was Black's current age.



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