Tracymcgoaty wrote:People keep talking about Pele but Garrincha was arguably just as beloved as Pele. People are mythologizing Pele as if he was the lone man for that Brazilian team lol.
In WC 58 Garrincha was dominant helping lead Brazil to their first WC trophy against Sweden in the finals with two assists.
and in 62 Pele played like 1 game in the WC and got injured. Brazil went on to win the WC without him with Garrincha being the tip of the spear scoring 4 goals in the tournament .
And in 1970 that Brazil squad is arguably one of the greatest squads ever assembled in the history of international football.
Pele has always played with greatness. Thats why people remember Maradona 86 more than any of Pele's trophies. Because without Maradona they wouldn't win. Brazil won without Pele because of the ridiculous talent level produced.
Seriously go look up the 1970 Brazil squad. I think they went undefeated in the 1970's WC.
And i seriously advice people to look up Garrincha who imo is far more interesting than Pele. I find it funny hearing people who've said they watched Pele play and never mention Garrincha even once. Im not even 30 but i've watched hours upon hours of highlights of the Brazil national team and their players and what i've come away with is that Garrincha was just as good if not better on the international level.
Difference between Pele and Garrincha is that Pele was the ideal man to market. Pele was the Lebron of his era. No drinking,good husband and a model citizen from what i've read. So A+ marketability.
Garrincha lost his virginity to a **** goat....Need i go on? And on top of that he was an alcoholic and quoted by a doctor to have the intelligence of a 7 year old. But when he got on that field none of that mattered. Some people are just born into it.
The story of Garrincha is arguably one of the saddest stories i've ever seen and read. Remember watching a documentary on him years ago. How his story ends is a tragedy.
I implore people to watch his highlights on youtube and see just how far ahead of his time he really was. Dude did whatever he wanted to whoever he wanted on that field.
Here is the documentary. 30 min that will fly by. After that watch Garrincha highlights!
Pelé played with many great players, but make no mistake about it, he was far and away the best of them.
You know who has become hugely underrated over time? Didi. He played with Garrincha on Botafogo. Central midfielder. I posted about him on the WC thread. I'm surprised that you said you watched countless hours of footage but didn't even mention Didi, lol.
Didi is a certifiable top 10 brazilian player of all-time IMO. Garrincha is too, obviously, but many have since passed him then (Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Romário, Ronaldinho, etc)... I'd say Garrincha would be around 7/8th best.
Here's a list of the best brazilian players ever, but please bear in mind it was published in 1999.
The problem with Garrincha is that he didn't play so much... his career was strongly weakened by him being an alcoholic in his playing days... of course he was great while in his prime, absolutely fantastic peak too.
Didi was the best player of the 1958 WC and, along with Pelé, Garrincha and Nílton Santos (Brazil's left forward) was elected to the All-tournament team. Didi had that timeless moment in the final match when, after Sweden scored the 1st goal, he went to get the ball, picked it up and calmly, slowly walked to the midfield to restart the match, leading Brazil to the win. You can find this moment easily on any Didi video on YT. He was the inventor of the "dry leaf" free kick and the "3 toe" pass too.
(Just a small parenthesis: lots of people assume Cafu and Roberto Carlos were the best forwards in Brazil's history, but many people still think Nílton Santos (nicknamed "The Encyclopedia of Futebol" here) and Djalma Santos were the best)... just leaving
this link for you guys to check (amazing site too, BTW).
Back to Garrincha: one of his nicknames was "Mané" (for "Manuel"). Also, "Garrincha" wasn't his actual name, it was based on a bird he used to like as a child. He was also nicknamed "o Anjo das Pernas Tortas" (The Angel of Bent Legs) here in Brazil. He was born this way. Here is a pic of his legs:
(Djalma Santos, Dudu, Garrincha)
In the mid 90's there was released a great biography by author Ruy Castro on Garrincha, called "A Estrela Solitária" (The Lonely Star). I don't know if there's an english version of this book. A movie was also made in 2003, with the same name, though I don't recommend it, it doesn't show anything of what he did in the field, focusing only in his troubled private life.
However, a documentary was made in 1963 about him, called "Garrincha: Alegria do Povo" (Garrincha: Joy of the People). This one is very recommended, don't miss it!
All in all, I believe Garrincha is a top 30/35 player in the history of futebol. Many have since surpassed him.
Finally, a trivia for you all: when both Pelé and Garrincha played for Brazil, the team NEVER lost.
As for other points of your posts: Pelé was definitely greater than Maradona. Played a lot more years, scored more (I think Maradona didn't reach 400 goals?), won more and, most importantly, dominated his competition outside of the national team too.
Pelé inspired many people but, he was not saint either. There is a very well-know history here in Brazil that was the following: Pelé had a child in an affair with a poor black woman, she was a house cleaner, back in 1964. If I'm not mistaken, he was already married at that time. He didn't recognize the child, even after a DNA test (in 1996). After accepting the judge's sentence, Pelé said he STILL didn't want anything with her, because he didn't have any feelings for her, and obviously didn't give any financial support through the years. Come on man, cold as ****!
The sad thing, and what makes me not like Pelé as a person (despite loving him very much as a player), is that, back in 2014, Sandra (the child's name) got cancer. She was terminally ill. In her death bed, she asked for him to recognize her as his daughter. He didn't, and she died.
That breaks my heart.