European Super League (Indefinitely Suspended)

[rapstarter]

What's funny is the much-hated oil money ended up failing this whole fiasco because they already have the ****-you money, and aren't just in it for profits. Not a great few days for American ownerships across Europe.

[Jack Dempsey]

Crystal Palace chairman Steve Parish has branded the failed European Super League an "attempted coup" to try and steal football from its supporters and has called on the authorities to go further in response.

The Premier League's ‘Big Six’ withdrew from the plans one by one on Tuesday night before trying to appease their supporters in statements and videos after the criticism and anger became too much.

Aleksander Ceferin, the Uefa president, has praised the clubs for their withdrawals and welcomed them back into the European football fold.

But Parish has warned they cannot come back as things were before.

“Let’s face it, this was an attempted coup," Parish told BBC Breakfast on Wednesday.

"This was a coup to try and steal football. And what happened was, which is fascinating, is fans, players and staff said: ‘We are going to fight for the right to lose’. We don’t want to be in some kind of elite where there is no jeopardy and no risk.

"The best banner I saw was: ‘We want our rainy cold nights in Stoke’. The miscalculation of this is quite spectacular and I see this morning some of them still haven’t stood down, which is extraordinary.

"But the reason they have done that is they still want to exert pressure on Mr Ceferin at Uefa, because behind this last week they banked already incredible gains in the Champions League."

While chaos ensued on Monday, Uefa still passed reforms to the Champions League which would help protect bigger clubs should they have a poor season, allowing established teams who finish outside of the top four in the Premier League a route back in because of their history, not sporting merit.

Parish has long spoken out against the reforms and says football must continue to fight against them.

The Palace owner added: "This has got to be the end of special voting rights, people who sit next to Mr Ceferin on committees that as clubs they shouldn’t be on, of all of the privileges of coefficient that award them extra money based on an arbitrary period of history.

"What Uefa need to do is start looking after the game - and stop pandering to these people and trying desperately to keep them inside the tent. They are going to be inside the tent now, whatever happens.

“And the Ajaxs and the Warsaws shouldn’t be playing qualification tournaments in the summer, when they won their league, in favour of an Arsenal or a Tottenham, who leapfrog an Aston Villa or a Leicester, into the Champions League because it is better to get those teams in for one year’s TV revenue.

"This is a fantastic day for football, but let’s not rest here and allow them to bank the gains that they got before.”

We've won one battle, not yet the war.

Steve Parish wants changes for the Champions League. I agree with him 100%. I too think it's absurd that non Champions have a free ticket for the big stage while some other clubs even with a greater history have to play the qualification games.

Other than that, english fans want to the owners of those teams out of football. They even go that far to demand their teams to be kicked out of all European Cups and being relegated to lower Divisions. They are supported by Boris Johnson and Prince William who is btw the president of the FA.

[Young Stapler]

All premier league clubs are set to withdraw according to Sky Sports.

Edit- for clarity, the clubs still left are set to withdraw (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham

But let's be clear. They've left because they failed, they'll startup again if they think then can make themselves more money even at the expense of everyone else.

Oh yeah this is not over. We are just getting started.

[Rasho Brezec]

"They tried to steal football"

Yeah, because football is owned by UEFA.

[Speadge]

Ah, come one ... again?!

Sadly, most of your posts with complete lack of understanding what we discuss in this thread are completely irrelevant.
You don't like UEFA? Yes, UEFA is no saint, we get it.
But can't you open some new thread or something instead of spamming this one all the time just to complain how terrible UEFA is?

[Stribor]

One thing people also do not understand is - European football depends on club youth development. We do not have high school or college sports tradition. Our sport tradition depends on clubs that are developing players. Superleague basically destroys the system completely. To be clear UEFA already damaged it beyond recognition with the stupid league of the champions, BUT this would be the final nail in the coffin. Why would someone support clubs like for instance Arsenal that are just buying other clubs players? Its like supporting BOA as opposed to Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan. In american context that makes sense cause you have franchises and professional league and there was never tradition of different system. In European football all the usual supporters hate MU, MC, Ars, Real, Juve and such clubs cause they do not contribute to the real quality of the game. They just have a lot of money, and some of them have incompetent boards that rack up debt and can not get out from the hole they dig for themselves. In the 80's and 90's you still had clubs like Steaua, Red Star Belgrade, Ajax, winning it all by the merit of their excellent player development, now you just have a few plutocrats that want money for themselves and do not care about development. They will always have 80 of top 100 players even if this players become worst due to worsened player development created by their own actions. Not to mention that the real magic of football which is hard to explain to americans is not that the best team wins, but that underdogs with heart (like previously mentioned clubs or Leicster in PL or Greece and Denmark in Euros ) - can sometimes win it all. The essence of football is Robin Hood and not Kroenke, emirs and Abramovic. I can support my local club because I can dream, and if this dreams are killed football is killed. I personaly do not watch Champions league after last underdogs go out - could not care if it is going to be Real or MU or Arse or Barca or Bayern ... I do not care for those clubs, only some I dislike more than others...

[Mamba81p]

One thing people also do not understand is - European football depends on club youth development. We do not have high school or college sports tradition. Our sport tradition depends on clubs that are developing players.

The part is true

In European football all the usual supporters hate MU, MC, Ars, Real, Juve and such clubs cause they do not contribute to the real quality of the game. They just have a lot of money, and some of them have incompetent boards that rack up debt and can not get out from the hole they dig for themselves.

That depends from country to country. There are countries where everybody roots for the big teams in Europe. And even when it comes to their domestic league, there are plenty of examples, where the locals root for the big team that plays against that local team.
Not in every country is like in Germany or England.

In the 80's and 90's you still had clubs like Steaua, Red Star Belgrade, Ajax, winning it all by the merit of their excellent player development

lol. You either don't know the history of teams like Steaua and other communists teams, or you are ignoring it.
That team won it on anything but merit. How can you speak against Super League and give an example like that? A team that basically had a free ticket to the Champions League just because of the communists fixed their games. All they had to do was beat Dinamo, the other communist team. A team that was handed the best players in the country. What those communists teams did, was even worse than Super League. Not only did they had a free ticket, but they could just burrow or buy any player, and unless the player did not want to join them, the other team couldn't do too much about it.

.

[Hellcrooner]

How this should REALLY be done.

first step all leagues in europe are reduced to 16 teams in their top tier.
All leagues must have a league, 1 "f.a" Cup and 1 League cup.

All leagues winners, f.a cup winners and league cup winners will get into the first round of the CHAMPIONS league.
Also the previous year champion and the uefa/euorpaleague champion will make it to the first roudn if not qualified via winning a nationa trophy.
Disclaimer if a team wins 2 or all three competitions in their country runners up DO NOT enter the competition, that country only sends 1 or 2 participants.

its a real CHAMPIONS legue.

so you have like 100 + teams for that 1st round.
so you play enough home and away elimination games to trim everything down to 32 teams.

then you make 4 groups of 8 everyone plays everyone twice.

only each group champions qualify for the spectacular FINAL FOUR knoeck em dead competition in city x ( like baskets final four).

so, there you have a REAL champions league where games matter every country has the same options in principle to put their teams into it and you dont qualify but name but by achievemente.


non champions? they qualify for uefa/eroleagu.

[Hellcrooner]

One thing people also do not understand is - European football depends on club youth development. We do not have high school or college sports tradition. Our sport tradition depends on clubs that are developing players.

The part is true

In European football all the usual supporters hate MU, MC, Ars, Real, Juve and such clubs cause they do not contribute to the real quality of the game. They just have a lot of money, and some of them have incompetent boards that rack up debt and can not get out from the hole they dig for themselves.

That depends from country to country. There are countries where everybody roots for the big teams in Europe. And even when it comes to their domestic league, there are plenty of examples, where the locals root for the big team that plays against that local team.
Not in every country is like in Germany or England.

In the 80's and 90's you still had clubs like Steaua, Red Star Belgrade, Ajax, winning it all by the merit of their excellent player development

lol. You either don't know the history of teams like Steaua and other communists teams, or you are ignoring it.
That team won it on anything but merit. How can you speak against Super League and give an example like that? A team that basically had a free ticket to the Champions League just because of the communists fixed their games. All they had to do was beat Dinamo, the other communist team. A team that was handed the best players in the country. What those communists teams did, was even worse than Super League. Not only did they had a free ticket, but they could just burrow or buy any player, and unless the player did not want to join them, the other team couldn't do too much about it.

.

dude, ALL THE TEAMS in rumania where comunist.

and they beat barcelona in the final.
no one awarded them with that, they won it.
Red star also won on merit defeating their euro competition

the only country where the winner was HEAVILY fixed on the comunsit era was DDRs Dynamo Berlin.

btw guess wich team is the poster child in europe to being a dictators team and awarded nationa league wins by decree, bad refing and advantages on adquiring players.
yeah, go check what happened with Di Steffano who had gone to spain to sign for a different club.

[Mamba81p]

One thing people also do not understand is - European football depends on club youth development. We do not have high school or college sports tradition. Our sport tradition depends on clubs that are developing players.

The part is true

In European football all the usual supporters hate MU, MC, Ars, Real, Juve and such clubs cause they do not contribute to the real quality of the game. They just have a lot of money, and some of them have incompetent boards that rack up debt and can not get out from the hole they dig for themselves.

That depends from country to country. There are countries where everybody roots for the big teams in Europe. And even when it comes to their domestic league, there are plenty of examples, where the locals root for the big team that plays against that local team.
Not in every country is like in Germany or England.

In the 80's and 90's you still had clubs like Steaua, Red Star Belgrade, Ajax, winning it all by the merit of their excellent player development

lol. You either don't know the history of teams like Steaua and other communists teams, or you are ignoring it.
That team won it on anything but merit. How can you speak against Super League and give an example like that? A team that basically had a free ticket to the Champions League just because of the communists fixed their games. All they had to do was beat Dinamo, the other communist team. A team that was handed the best players in the country. What those communists teams did, was even worse than Super League. Not only did they had a free ticket, but they could just burrow or buy any player, and unless the player did not want to join them, the other team couldn't do too much about it.

.

dude, ALL THE TEAMS in rumania where comunist.

and they beat barcelona in the final.
no one awarded them with that, they won it.
Red star also won on merit defeating their euro competition

the only country where the winner was HEAVILY fixed on the comunsit era was DDRs Dynamo Berlin.

btw guess wich team is the poster child in europe to being a dictators team and awarded nationa league wins by decree, bad refing and advantages on adquiring players.
yeah, go check what happened with Di Steffano who had gone to spain to sign for a different club.

Well, not all of them were communist. In the 80's things started to become worse and worse, and they got to a point where the top 6 teams were teams created by the communists. They were controlling who was finishing where. The only question was who is going 1 and 2: Steaua or Dinamo.
I know di Steffano's story, and similar stories happened in communist Romania as well, with ALL the players.
And even between Steaua and Dinamo, Steaua was the favorite one(Valentin Ceausescu was their chairman). In 1988 they left the field for a disallowed goal, and awarded the trophy afterwards. I don't think you are fully aware of their history when you say that only Dynamo Berlin had heavily fixed games.

so if a team is gifted a place into the Champions League or say Super League and wins it, it means it was on merit? You can't have it both ways. Either you don't like guaranteed spots for specific clubs in which you cannot say those titles were on merit, or you do. That is my point. The performances of Eastern European teams in 80's and early 90's should be the last ones used as examples for meritocracy.

Real Madrid, Steaua and other teams like that, went even further, where their teams were created by stealing players from other clubs.

[Rasho Brezec]

Economic development of the country and market size are determining factors of success. Nobody wants to watch the best team from England play the best team from Slovenia in the Champions Cup. Because they get better matches from the best team in England playing the 16th best team in England.

[Stribor]

The part is true



That depends from country to country. There are countries where everybody roots for the big teams in Europe. And even when it comes to their domestic league, there are plenty of examples, where the locals root for the big team that plays against that local team.
Not in every country is like in Germany or England.



lol. You either don't know the history of teams like Steaua and other communists teams, or you are ignoring it.
That team won it on anything but merit. How can you speak against Super League and give an example like that? A team that basically had a free ticket to the Champions League just because of the communists fixed their games. All they had to do was beat Dinamo, the other communist team. A team that was handed the best players in the country. What those communists teams did, was even worse than Super League. Not only did they had a free ticket, but they could just burrow or buy any player, and unless the player did not want to join them, the other team couldn't do too much about it.

.

dude, ALL THE TEAMS in rumania where comunist.

and they beat barcelona in the final.
no one awarded them with that, they won it.
Red star also won on merit defeating their euro competition

the only country where the winner was HEAVILY fixed on the comunsit era was DDRs Dynamo Berlin.

btw guess wich team is the poster child in europe to being a dictators team and awarded nationa league wins by decree, bad refing and advantages on adquiring players.
yeah, go check what happened with Di Steffano who had gone to spain to sign for a different club.

Well, not all of them were communist. In the 80's things started to become worse and worse, and they got to a point where the top 6 teams were teams created by the communists. They were controlling who was finishing where. The only question was who is going 1 and 2: Steaua or Dinamo.
I know di Steffano's story, and similar stories happened in communist Romania as well, with ALL the players.
And even between Steaua and Dinamo, Steaua was the favorite one(Valentin Ceausescu was their chairman). In 1988 they left the field for a disallowed goal, and awarded the trophy afterwards. I don't think you are fully aware of their history when you say that only Dynamo Berlin had heavily fixed games.

so if a team is gifted a place into the Champions League or say Super League and wins it, it means it was on merit? You can't have it both ways. Either you don't like guaranteed spots for specific clubs in which you cannot say those titles were on merit, or you do. That is my point. The performances of Eastern European teams in 80's and early 90's should be the last ones used as examples for meritocracy.

Real Madrid, Steaua and other teams like that, went even further, where their teams were created by stealing players from other clubs.

Duly noted. I know that Steaua was regime club, but not that it was also stealing. I was in ex-yugoslavia and really hated Red Star, but they did deserve their place that year and they had great players. Dinamo lost Prosinecki to Red Star not because of regime but because of stupidity. Nevertheless one can throw in teams like PSV, HSV, Porto, Feynoord, Aston Villa ... It was much more equal. And I am not sure I know country (At least in Europe) where everyone supports big teams is Europe and not their own...

[HIF]

Economic development of the country and market size are determining factors of success. Nobody wants to watch the best team from England play the best team from Slovenia in the Champions Cup. Because they get better matches from the best team in England playing the 16th best team in England.

That's why we have a the premier league. You are actually arguing against your own argument.

[Rasho Brezec]

Not really.

[Jack Dempsey]

Economic development of the country and market size are determining factors of success. Nobody wants to watch the best team from England play the best team from Slovenia in the Champions Cup. Because they get better matches from the best team in England playing the 16th best team in England.

I'm sorry but why not? I really enjoyed Maribor beating some english Team (was it Wigan?) 7-8 years ago and advancing to the Knockout Stage of the Euroleague. They had an pretty good run for a couple of seasons. I think they also eliminated Celtic once in the CL Qualification.

That was just an example because you've mentioned Slovenia which is a pretty small country. There are more competitive teams in Europe outside the big 5 Leagues that would have been left out of that horrible project.